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Congestion charge for Bikes in Manchester

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powelly
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PostPosted: 12:55 - 31 May 2007    Post subject: Congestion charge for Bikes in Manchester Reply with quote

I don't know if any of you have heard this yet but its just been on the news that Bikes will be charged a reduced rate congestion charge when it comes in to force in Manchester.

Just goes to show its nothing to do with congestion and just another way of earning money!

Evil or Very Mad
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Stiffler
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PostPosted: 13:06 - 31 May 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I'd heard it was rumoured to be the case... I'm gutted it's true though.

How can they argue that bikes add to congestion? I ride 15 miles into Manchester (I work at the university) every day and at no point am I causing congestion... In fact I spend 75% of the time riding past it!

I can easily get the train on occasions when the bike is off the road but it's more exspensive and rammed. The morning train that arrives in good time for all the 9-5'ers often has to sail through the last two stations on the route as it's rammed to capacity. What the hell is going to happen upon introduction of the congestion charge I don't know.

Ah well, one things for sure, it's not going to be good for Manchester Growth.

Tim
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Marcg868
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PostPosted: 13:31 - 31 May 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

What really fucks me off is the fact Manchester has 2 zones! Whereas in London its just the one zone.

Luckily i dont work in the City centre anymore, but will still have to pay to enter zone one as i live in Bury and work in Middleton.

Money grabbing bastards, it wont do Manchester any good at all.
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powelly
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PostPosted: 14:06 - 31 May 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

bwfc4eva86 wrote:
What really fucks me off is the fact Manchester has 2 zones! Whereas in London its just the one zone.


Yeah Ive not got my head around how this is going to work with the m60, are you going to get charged each time you cross the m60 or enter it, I live in Hollinwood just off a main road that crosses the m60 not half a mile from my house, never mind going into Manchester am i really going to get charge £2 to drive a mile down the rd and back?
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mrbluesbox
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PostPosted: 15:28 - 31 May 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

this really sucks - its gonna cost me a fortune cos i work right in the centre.
dont suppose they said how much cheaper it would be for a bike?
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mrbluesbox
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PostPosted: 15:54 - 31 May 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

on another note let try and do something about it.
just found this online petition so everyone get signed up and let see if they will actually listen to what people want:

https://www.petitiononline.com/mancong/petition.html
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rvfdan
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PostPosted: 16:09 - 31 May 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

Arrrgh! The last i heard on the congestion charge coming to Manchester was just speculation. Is this shit actually happening? And bikes too??? Jesus. "Congestion" in Manchester isn't even that bad, not like London at any rate. What a scam. Thumbs Down
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powelly
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PostPosted: 17:02 - 31 May 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah and Manchester isnt just the city center, its one charge to get into the m60 another charge to get into the city center, then another charge to get out of the city center and yet another charge to get out of the m60.

The only good point is you will only get charge if your traveling in rush hour, something like 7 while 9 in the morning and 4 while 6 in the evening so you can avoid the charges if you travel off peak. but then again, wont that just move the congestion to 5 mins after the charge stops!
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nynfortoo
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PostPosted: 17:23 - 31 May 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wish they'd develop some real bonuses to encourage people not to use their own motorised transport, instead of just penalising you for doing so. I'm sure many people hate driving into cities just to get to work, but the way public transport is run, there aren't many feasible and worthwhile alternatives.
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Resurrection
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PostPosted: 17:32 - 31 May 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

its not even being implemented until 2012 so relax as im sure a hundred different things/laws will have changed and been passed in the 5 years ahead

Res
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Itchy
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PostPosted: 19:04 - 31 May 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

yup even worse ones for your wallet , Tory MP dared the Labour council to hold a referendum , they said no we know better , ie they will lose,

but ! 2010 I intend to be on the south coast anyway and 2013 emigrated.
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Itchy
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PostPosted: 19:44 - 31 May 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Arrrgh! The last i heard on the congestion charge coming to Manchester was just speculation.
Is this shit actually happening? And bikes too??? Jesus. "Congestion" in Manchester isn't even
that bad, not like London at any rate. What a scam.



Congestion is being artificially created ,

examples?

All the traffic light sequences have been changed , I had the Manchester traffic lights down perfectly on
my timing, I would prebuffer my revs expecting it to change, they now don't and give much longer
priority to unbusy side streets. = causes congestion, BMW man has complained about this too
you used to be able to sit at 29mph and hit green ALL the way in.

More bus lanes than are empty , what takes the piss is many buses don't actually use them
= more traffic

More cycle lanes which most of the time are not used.

Phantom Road works , just before prestwich a set or roadworks completely blocked off one
lane , then again in Lower Broghton , then again in Salford then again just outside the
prison , the roads remained untouched = more traffic

Ancotes is a perfect example , two lane roads closed to one with no work done on them
at all, people have moved them out the way.

Traffic calming ie Ancotes again which slows traffic down again.

Appauling road conditions, which narrow lanes down harshly down cheetham hill way into the
city the roads are so knackered they are effectively reduced from 4 lanes to two lanes.

Increased parking spaces onroad where there used to be none example prestwich outside
richer Sounds , around 2000-2003 you could never park there, now you can this cuts a 2
lane road (and two attack filtering lanes) into one.


The effect of this has been that many many firms are moving out the city centre to business
parks outside the M60 , mine is SR125 girl's firm is , and my Brunt wood building is very empty
right now, its classic golden goose syndrome , they think they will make loads of money doing this
but people vote with their feet and wallets and the city centre will lose huge amounts of business
council tax, whcih means they have to hike the charge to make it pay , the London charge at £8
a day doesn't even break even for the company running it.


but I have the ULTIMATE solution! , multiple rat bikes! , ie I park a rat bike at home, then one in whitefield
inside the zone , I park up inside whitefield before the zone change, run over to the 2nd bike ride that
to the city centre limits, and jump on bike #3 parked just inside the city center, Genius! I pay NO
charge ! , except the extra road tax, I cause even more environmental damage and I pay zero
extra! , hurrah for rat bikes,
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Itchy
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PostPosted: 19:45 - 31 May 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I can easily get the train on occasions when the bike is off the road but it's more exspensive and rammed.


its going to get even more expensive , rail operators see and recognise monopolies when they arise
and will subsequently increase their fares to reflect this, they even anounced it a few years ago their
version of the congestion charge , thus either way you get gang raped by the tax man, unless Tim,
you can ride your push bike , but of course if everybody goes onto push bikes all of a sudden there
will be a push bike tax.

I can currently skitch on cars when I take push bikes out , but when the C charge pushes everybody
out of cars who will we skitch then? (I think I'll skitch onto you Tim!)
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king756
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Joined: 23 May 2005
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PostPosted: 20:09 - 31 May 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

Itchy wrote:
Quote:
Arrrgh! The last i heard on the congestion charge coming to Manchester was just speculation.
Is this shit actually happening? And bikes too??? Jesus. "Congestion" in Manchester isn't even
that bad, not like London at any rate. What a scam.



Congestion is being artificially created ,

examples?

All the traffic light sequences have been changed , I had the Manchester traffic lights down perfectly on
my timing, I would prebuffer my revs expecting it to change, they now don't and give much longer
priority to unbusy side streets. = causes congestion, BMW man has complained about this too
you used to be able to sit at 29mph and hit green ALL the way in.

More bus lanes than are empty , what takes the piss is many buses don't actually use them
= more traffic

More cycle lanes which most of the time are not used.

Phantom Road works , just before prestwich a set or roadworks completely blocked off one
lane , then again in Lower Broghton , then again in Salford then again just outside the
prison , the roads remained untouched = more traffic

Ancotes is a perfect example , two lane roads closed to one with no work done on them
at all, people have moved them out the way.

Traffic calming ie Ancotes again which slows traffic down again.

Appauling road conditions, which narrow lanes down harshly down cheetham hill way into the
city the roads are so knackered they are effectively reduced from 4 lanes to two lanes.

Increased parking spaces onroad where there used to be none example prestwich outside
richer Sounds , around 2000-2003 you could never park there, now you can this cuts a 2
lane road (and two attack filtering lanes) into one.


The effect of this has been that many many firms are moving out the city centre to business
parks outside the M60 , mine is SR125 girl's firm is , and my Brunt wood building is very empty
right now, its classic golden goose syndrome , they think they will make loads of money doing this
but people vote with their feet and wallets and the city centre will lose huge amounts of business
council tax, whcih means they have to hike the charge to make it pay , the London charge at £8
a day doesn't even break even for the company running it.


but I have the ULTIMATE solution! , multiple rat bikes! , ie I park a rat bike at home, then one in whitefield
inside the zone , I park up inside whitefield before the zone change, run over to the 2nd bike ride that
to the city centre limits, and jump on bike #3 parked just inside the city center, Genius! I pay NO
charge ! , except the extra road tax, I cause even more environmental damage and I pay zero
extra! , hurrah for rat bikes,


Pretty much agree.

Bus lanes are pretty much empty with one bus passing say every 10 minutes. Nice bit of efficient road use their.

Trains as they stand are already overcrowded at peak times which the congestion charge is aimed for. I've seen a the doors shut once or twice and people being refused from getting on. Now a congestion charge will see increased rail users.

The recent comedy episode of bus wardens in piccadily gardens as the buses where causing tail backs due to competitor operators trying to out do each other shows the center couldn't cope with more busses.

Charging bikes is silly. If it is about congestion they should be promoting bikes. The dft minister who rides a bike him self said they where looking at promoting small capacity bikes for in the city if i remember right, this goes against that. He might not even be the minister any more they change that much i suppose.
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froggeh
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PostPosted: 20:14 - 31 May 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

Itchy wrote:
but I have the ULTIMATE solution! , multiple rat bikes! , ie I park a rat bike at home, then one in whitefield
inside the zone , I park up inside whitefield before the zone change, run over to the 2nd bike ride that
to the city centre limits, and jump on bike #3 parked just inside the city center, Genius! I pay NO
charge ! , except the extra road tax, I cause even more environmental damage and I pay zero
extra! , hurrah for rat bikes,



Oh dear.
Well obviously this aint gonna affect me... But why would this cause more env damage Itchy dude?
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Stiffler
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PostPosted: 20:34 - 31 May 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

Itchy wrote:

unless Tim, you can ride your push bike , but of course if everybody goes onto push bikes all of a sudden there will be a push bike tax.

I can currently skitch on cars when I take push bikes out , but when the C charge pushes everybody
out of cars who will we skitch then? (I think I'll skitch onto you Tim!)


I would happily cycle into work more often if there were better shower facilities available to me. I used to do it every day when I worked in a place with a decent shower etc. You're welcome to a tow though, I quite often ride with my dad and on the flat he always sits behind my back wheel... Tell you what though, if they did tax bicycles I'd be so furious I may start a letterbomb campaign!!

Talking of pushbikes - look what I picked up today:

https://www.bikechatforums.com/files/img_2299.jpg

Tim
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James
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PostPosted: 20:44 - 31 May 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its nothing to do with congestion and more about the vermin/filth politicians and ruling classes trying to price the poorer off the road so they can drive around without hold up (presumably because they're so important). The congestion charge should be means tested to make it meaningful, its not like a tenner has the same impact on a minimum wage earner as a city banker/wanker who earns six figure bonuses.

Civil war and revolution afoot in this country, maybe not in our lifetime but its in the post along with a bus load of romanians
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Marcg868
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PostPosted: 01:08 - 01 Jun 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its a fucking disgrace this, they claim that the money will be spent on extending the metrolink, what bloody use is that to People Who live in Wigan, Leigh, Bolton etc? £6.70 a day to be rammed on the Train from Bolton to Manchester, or £4 and 15 mins on the bike.

Extend the Metrolink to the Above towns and sort out the public transport. Money grabbing cunts Manchester council.
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Itchy
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PostPosted: 06:37 - 01 Jun 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

froggeh wrote:

Well obviously this aint gonna affect me... But why would this cause more env damage Itchy dude?


Its 3 miles till the first charge point

bike will not be warmed up, thus run rich for a bit

ditto with 2nd and 3rd bike,

since I am NOT wealthy, I would use old 1980s rat bikes , unlike my CBR with gigantic end can with some sort of emissions controller inside it, thus I'd have to do 5 cold starts a day , which would burn more petrol and thus cause more damage!
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Itchy
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PostPosted: 06:40 - 01 Jun 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stiffler wrote:
Talking of pushbikes - look what I picked up today:

https://www.bikechatforums.com/files/img_2299.jpg

Tim



the riding position on that bike makes my CBR look comfy!
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Stiffler
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PostPosted: 09:13 - 01 Jun 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

Itchy wrote:

the riding position on that bike makes my CBR look comfy!


Heh, aye sports motorbikes are actually fantastically comfortable places to be after you've ridden 60+ miles on a racing bicycle. Worryingly I took the bicycle out after that photo was taken and discovered that the seat still needs to be raised a bit more...

Tim
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froggeh
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PostPosted: 10:03 - 01 Jun 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

Itchy wrote:
froggeh wrote:

Well obviously this aint gonna affect me... But why would this cause more env damage Itchy dude?


Its 3 miles till the first charge point

bike will not be warmed up, thus run rich for a bit

ditto with 2nd and 3rd bike,

since I am NOT wealthy, I would use old 1980s rat bikes , unlike my CBR with gigantic end can with some sort of emissions controller inside it, thus I'd have to do 5 cold starts a day , which would burn more petrol and thus cause more damage!


aha - i get it Wink
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Kurt
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PostPosted: 20:50 - 01 Jun 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

The congestion charge is utter bollocks.

I live in Stockport and work in Manchester, me and my missus drive in together, it takes us around 25 minutes max right into the city centre, a distance of around 6 miles. The only bad bit of congestion is on the A6. Why? Cos the useless f**kers put in a bus lane, it was fine before but now it's busy as 2 lanes have become one. And how many buses use their frigging bus lane? Sod all, you practicaly never see a bus in the morning.

So, we will have to fork out for the privilage of driving to work? What about car pooling? We share a car, we should pay less.

And now I'll be biking to work while she's off on maternity leave (our first - hurrah! Smile I still have to pay the f**king charge?

It's so frigging unfair, especially on the people that really can't afford it.

You know what we should do? Just for a day, boycott cars and bikes and ALL try to get to work on public transport. Every f**ker would be late for work and that would prove, once and for all, that the public transport system simply cannot cope. End of.
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rvfdan
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PostPosted: 14:36 - 02 Jun 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

This really is the most horrendous crap going. It takes the mick that they're trying to price car drivers off the road as it is, but bikes? They should be promoting the use of them if they think congestion is an issue (which it bloody well isn't). Where's all the money going to go then? Are we going to benefit in any way from it? No, we're not, not in the slightest.

Have the 2 zones / charging times actually been confirmed yet?
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iooi
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PostPosted: 14:57 - 02 Jun 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

Itchy wrote:
The effect of this has been that many many firms are moving out the city centre to business
parks outside the M60 , mine is SR125 girl's firm is , and my Brunt wood building is very empty
right now, its classic golden goose syndrome , they think they will make loads of money doing this
,


Fine if you live the side of the city they have moved too, if not then you have to pay....

You then get into the situation that we have at work...We need more parking spaces as we are on a out of town site. Council will not give permission.....
And this is a Carbon netural co, who promote car sharing, not that easy on our shifts though, provide a free shuttle bus which is well used. Just when you finish late at night bus is not a option, as there simply is not any running where you want to go.
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