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derestrict 50 cc how much, diy

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pip.1
Derestricted Danger



Joined: 31 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: 17:53 - 11 Jan 2007    Post subject: derestrict 50 cc how much, diy Reply with quote

How easy is it to derestrict a 50cc could this be done diy or would it have to be done by the proffesionals, thought this might be an option instead of the cbt and 125 cc route, save myself the £70 cbt cost.
Thanks in advance
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RS1Banger
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PostPosted: 08:46 - 12 Jan 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

err
what sort of ped?
some are a washer or dead end pipe on the exhaust
combined with a variator restriction
and in some cases a rev limiter
its a piece of cake if you can read and follow a set of written instructions
but some peds are designed slow so you cant make them go faster

geared mopeds can be tuned up very nicely
i had a water cooled geared moped (rieju rs1) for a while,
after i'd tuned it up it did 85 - far quicker than the 125 i've got now Confused
also it did have the advantage that i didn't need L plates or CBT and i could take a passenger (car test passed in '91)
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john2
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Joined: 25 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: 12:07 - 12 Jan 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

RS1Banger wrote:
err
what sort of ped?
some are a washer or dead end pipe on the exhaust
combined with a variator restriction
and in some cases a rev limiter
its a piece of cake if you can read and follow a set of written instructions
but some peds are designed slow so you cant make them go faster

geared mopeds can be tuned up very nicely
i had a water cooled geared moped (rieju rs1) for a while,
after i'd tuned it up it did 85 - far quicker than the 125 i've got now Confused
also it did have the advantage that i didn't need L plates or CBT and i could take a passenger (car test passed in '91)



Hmm, somehow i dont believe it did 85 Rolling Eyes
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SilvaRizla
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PostPosted: 17:44 - 12 Jan 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

^^^ Why? Its quite possible seeing how its a 2 stroke
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pip.1
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Joined: 31 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: 17:45 - 12 Jan 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes thanks for the info, was going to book cbt tomorrow, and get a 125 scooter, its a scooter im looking for first, mates got a peugoet scooter 50 cc 7 yrs old,thought about buying that but dont want to be stuck @ 35 mph,he bought it from new £1600.
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SilvaRizla
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PostPosted: 18:08 - 12 Jan 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you're 17 or over sod the scooter and get a 125 bike,

the mito beats the 911 0-60
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six
Trackday Trickster



Joined: 29 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: 21:06 - 12 Jan 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

SilvaRizla wrote:
^^^ Why? Its quite possible seeing how its a 2 stroke

I've got an RS50... how do I do this (without changing sprockets, and wrecking my acceleration/speedo).
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Whosthedaddy
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PostPosted: 21:12 - 12 Jan 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

six wrote:
(without changing sprockets, and wrecking my acceleration/speedo).


The speedo is driven by the speedo cable and will not be affected any derestrictions or engine upgrades.

Acce;eration and top speeds may be increased by changing the front or rear sprockets.

Some bikes have a reduced exhaust outlet that hinders or restricts the flow of gases thus reducing the top speed (something like that) whereas others have washer type restrictors in the carb manifold.
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pip.1
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PostPosted: 22:27 - 12 Jan 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, im going to book cbt tomorrow and go for the 125,im well over 17.
pip
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six
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PostPosted: 23:17 - 12 Jan 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whosthedaddy wrote:

The speedo is driven by the speedo cable and will not be affected any derestrictions or engine upgrades.

Surely different sprokets will throw the speedo out of sync or something? Thats what I heard.

Quote:
Acce;eration and top speeds may be increased by changing the front or rear sprockets.

If you change the sprokets... gaining acceleration = reducing top speeds and gaining top speeds = reducing acceleration. Again, thats what I was lead to believe.

Quote:
Some bikes have a reduced exhaust outlet that hinders or restricts the flow of gases thus reducing the top speed (something like that) whereas others have washer type restrictors in the carb manifold.

So, getting a less restrictive exhaust will increase the flow of air?

Thanks
Tom
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six
Trackday Trickster



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PostPosted: 23:18 - 12 Jan 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

pip.1 wrote:
Thanks, im going to book cbt tomorrow and go for the 125,im well over 17.
pip

surely if you already have a CBT you can just ride any 125 after 17 anyway? You don't need to retake your CBT, it will last you for 2 years.
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derbi x-treme
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Joined: 25 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: 00:18 - 13 Jan 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

85 mph is possible out of a 50 but would need to be tuned and have different sprockets. once your bike can reach max revs in top gear performance parts will only add acceleration the sprockets must be changed to get better topspeed. to get 85 mph you would need a single ring aluminium alloy cylinder big bore kit, a bigger carb high revving exhaust and carbon reeds and airfilter maybe even a performance ignition, also to handle this power youd need performance crank and bearings, you'd also need a new clutch to stop slipping and waay bigger front sprocket or smaller back sprocket about 16 48
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Kal
World Chat Champion



Joined: 02 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: 06:33 - 13 Jan 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

six wrote:

Surely different sprokets will throw the speedo out of sync or something? Thats what I heard.


Depends on the bike. The speedos on all of my bikes are driven off of the front wheel so the speedo would only need adjustment if there was a smaller/larger front wheel fitted.

However I believe there are some bikes out there with a speedo driven off of the rear wheel/gearing. Have a look and see where your cable goes.

six wrote:

If you change the sprokets... gaining acceleration = reducing top speeds and gaining top speeds = reducing acceleration. Again, thats what I was lead to believe.


You are right. It's a trade off between ultimate speed and torque which govens both your acceleration and the weight your bike can carry without straining the engine.

six wrote:

So, getting a less restrictive exhaust will increase the flow of air?


That's pretty much why race cans are so loud. No baffles - less restrictive. Although changing the exhaust can mean having to get the bike dyno jetted to match for best performance.

If memory serves though upgrading the power would boost it out of the Moped catagory and slap it into the catagory A1 light motorcycle. Provided it is producing less then 14.6bhp that is.

If its producing more than that you are looking at requiring a full motorcycle licence rather than a CBT and L plates to ride it legally.

six wrote:
surely if you already have a CBT you can just ride any 125 after 17 anyway? You don't need to retake your CBT, it will last you for 2 years.


Any 125 less than 14.6bhp. You are right about the CBT, the only times you need to take it is if your currant one runs out or you are instructed to after a run in with the law.
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RS1Banger
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PostPosted: 10:01 - 13 Jan 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

lol
the moped had
75cc single ring kit (regularly cleaned internally)
21mm carb (jetted rich to avoid overheating)
bent back reeds stop
yasuni exhaust (very good high revving pipe for smaller 2t, quiet too)
stronger clutch springs
biggest front cog available
smaller back cog (not smallest, should have been)

it could have done with
a stronger crank (stock one was on its way when i sold it Laughing )
bigger carb
smallest back cog
v-force reeds

it did 85 on the tomtom, the speedo never worked,
with rider tucked in it held 85 up hills and into headwinds,
cos of this i think it would have gone more but for the gearing

the right lunatic with more money than me/sense could probably see 100mph out of a tuned "moped" Shocked

legally, i think its likely it was over the 125 power limit let alone the 30mph moped law, so technically it required a full bike licence


as for the peugoet scooter (back on topic!), they're held back by a dead end pipe on the exhaust and a variator restriction plate, cut/whip these out and they do 55 or 50 (lc or ac)
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pip.1
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Joined: 31 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: 13:06 - 13 Jan 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks i might consider it then , use the thread for whatever topic you see fit, all interesting stuff.Wouldny fancy doing 85mph on a ped though. Sick
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john2
Brolly Dolly



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PostPosted: 18:19 - 13 Jan 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you would need to spend more money than the bike is worth to get it to do 85MPH, thinking about it though, i suppose it would be possible as my RS50 did 62Mph standard (derestricted).
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RS1Banger
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PostPosted: 09:24 - 14 Jan 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

more money than its worth?

i only spent £100 cos i got everything second hand, and the bike for £200

but the same kit as i had (TOP) but with a long throw stronger crank (85cc) is just over 200 quid
you need a decent exhaust, that will rev hard to at least 12000, so thats another £120
a large carb (24 or 28)too, and manifold to match, thats another ton
large front, small rear sprocket £15
clutch springs £4

so you're talking 450 quid, but then it would be faster than mine was Shocked
and probably faster than most 125s
at the time my next door neighbour had an ancient gsx250, which was no faster than my ped and handled worse,
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cestrian
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PostPosted: 15:39 - 22 Jan 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

derbi x-treme wrote:
85 mph is possible out of a 50 but would need to be tuned and have different sprockets. once your bike can reach max revs in top gear performance parts will only add acceleration the sprockets must be changed to get better topspeed. to get 85 mph you would need a single ring aluminium alloy cylinder big bore kit, a bigger carb high revving exhaust and carbon reeds and airfilter maybe even a performance ignition, also to handle this power youd need performance crank and bearings, you'd also need a new clutch to stop slipping and waay bigger front sprocket or smaller back sprocket about 16 48


Sorry but I have to ask, what is a "high revving exhaust"? Also what is a "single ring aluminium alloy cylinder big bore kit"? Also, would it require an new lubrication system? and how long would the engine last?

Gordon
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derbi x-treme
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PostPosted: 17:55 - 22 Jan 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

a high revving exhaust is an exhaust that only has power in high revs giving a concentrated powerband. a normal exhaust for cruising around will have power spread throughout the rev range but a high reving exhaust will give you a sudden boost once it hits certain revs, typically around 8000-12000 on most high reving ones but you can get ones with higher powerbands. an aluminium or alloy single ring borekit allows the engine to rev much higher and more easily. the single ring creates less firction than the double ring and also the bottom ring of a twing ring can flutter at high rpm so this is prevented. also becuase its aluminium it dissipates heat faster so it performs better. the expensive borekits also have tuned porting which adds to power. to run these parts without damaging the bike you would have to upgrade the crank and bearings. however i think the standard cooling system would be fine but would be a good idea to run it on the fully synthetic oil Smile
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cestrian
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PostPosted: 20:35 - 22 Jan 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please excuse me and my ignorance, is there a technical term for a 'high revving exhaust'?
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derbi x-treme
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PostPosted: 18:22 - 23 Jan 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

technical term?

its usually just known as a performance exhaust and like i said offers a powerband at high revs

dont know what else to say lol
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LeeWat
Nitrous Nuisance



Joined: 12 Jun 2007
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PostPosted: 12:57 - 12 Jun 2007    Post subject: High revving exhaust Reply with quote

Back in the mists of time, 19 years ago to be precise us 2 stroke loonies just refered to high revving exhausts as either Microns or Allspeeds Smile

btw, i had a tuned up RD125LC that went at nearly 120mph.

Allspeed Exhaust, filed out inlet and outlet ports, bigger main jet, K&N air filter. Easy jobs to do, powerband was about 6500 and you knew about it when you got there Shocked
The only downside was with the power increase, i had to put in heavy duty (racing) aluminium clutch plates and replace the standard chain & sprockets with heavy duty ones.
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