Hello + 250cc Bikes

[.Chris.]

Hi,

I'm new here, so I'll first explain about myself, etc.

I'm 19 and I've had my first bike for about a month now - a slightly tatty 1990 Yamaha RXS100 (Pic attached). The bike is not my principal means of transport (although increasingly becoming so due to it being so fun), my other hobby being classic cars, namely Morris Minors of which I have two. I'm currently at Exeter uni but I live in Cambridge out of term. Unfortunately I'm going to have to leave the bike in Devon over the summer

The bike is great fun and I'm already hooked on it - I'm not a speed freak and tend to use it for enjoying riding though the countryside. The only thing that pisses me off about the RXS is the lack of go on hills (which is quite a pain when riding over Dartmoor). This has got me thinking about my next bike.

Ideally I'd like it to be a 250cc as I want to make a gradual progression up the 'ranks' and learn how to safely control smaller bikes first before graduating on to something more powerful. I'm also quite short (5'7") and not very strong so lightness is good!

Has anyone got any thoughts about what 250cc bike would be a good progression in, say 6 to 9 months' time when I have got my test out of the way (and some more money)? I much prefer fairly traditional-looking naked bikes and would like something with a fairly low insurance rating. I've got a couple of ideas, just wondering if anyone had any thoughts/advice/tales of woe:

- Honda CB250

- Honda CBF250 (might be too pricey due to being fairly new)

- Honda CB200 (only 200cc I know)

- Yamaha RS200 (same, quite rare also)

- Suzuki Bandit 250 (did Suzuki UK ever import these officially, if not then would it be difficult to get insurance/spares?)

- Suzuki GT250 (a bit old skool, I've got mixed feelings about getting another stroker)

Any suggestions?

P.S. It doesn't matter if the bike is fairly old as I am reasonably competent at mechanics having serviced cars and rebuilt car engines in the past.

Thanks!
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Chris
1985 Kawasaki Z550F

[G]

Suggestions - why not consider power rather than cc?

A race 250 bike could make around 100hp in top spec state.
More like 60hp for a normal good road sports 250 2 stroke.
These would both weigh a fair bit less than current bigger sports bikes and the ones you list.

Conversly, a 250 could possibly make the same power as your 100 and weigh more!

[.Chris.]

Yes, that had occurred to me. I'm not really interested (at the moment anyway ) in race-type bikes, plus I'm not sure about getting another stroker.

I was also thinking about keeping the insurance low, I know this depends on many factors other than the cc but I'm sure it does affect it. I assume the type of bike also affects the insurance rating? That might work in my favour then as I quite like 'traditional'/commuter type bikes.

What would be your suggestions be for a fairly low-powered, cheap next bike?

Thanks
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Chris
1985 Kawasaki Z550F

[Ravo]

That's a beautiful looking bike.

I'd recommend the Honda Nighthawk 250. I think that's specifically called the CB250. Nice look, big gas tank, easy to ride. They are fairly expensive compared to the 250cc Rebel cruiser but it'd be worth it IMO.

[-Ali-]

cb250, cheap to run, and about 20bhp

[carlmalibu]

(as has been said a lot recently) why not go for a 500 twin?

GPZ or CB.

Not too fast, not too huge, a lot of fun, and the CB looks great (in my biased opinion)
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Shine on, you crazy diamond
CB500, woop.

[Kickstart]

[.Chris.]

Thanks for the replies!

I suppose the CBF250 would fit the bill quite nicely, it's just that I'd like to explore all the options. There's also the problem that they're fairly new and there aren't that many around so they might be too expensive (not really sure what they're worth 2nd hand, £3.5k new seems quite steep). Also I'm not sure how quickly I'd get bored of it

The CB250 (I'm talking about the version reviewed here) is also on paper quite good but I'm a little uneasy about the looks, a little cruiser-ish to my eye. The CB500 looks better imo.

On second thoughts I think I'd best forget the old strokers as to be honest they'll probably be a pack of trouble.

Shame that Suzuki never imported the 250 Bandit as I'd love to get my hands on one - more power than the CBF250 and great looks. Parts might be a problem though.

I've been getting some insurance quotes and it's thrown up some interesting stuff (all these are TPFT from Bennetts):

CB & CBF250 seem to cost roughly the same, about £230. Bandit 250 is the same. Bandit 400 is slightly more at £277. Being an import or not didn't seem to make any difference. Anything more than 400cc is dramatically more - CB500, GS500 and ER5 are about £500, bandit 600 is a bit more. 1976 Suzuki GT250 is £417 - a bit odd considering as I'm sure they're not as quick as a 400 Bandit!

The smaller bikes are more reasonable than I was expecting, I pay about £150 TPO with Bennetts on the Yam.

I'm starting to get tempted by a 400cc Bandit, does anyone know what they're like and how much I could pick an old-ish one up for? I'll have a fish around on the 'net for specs. It might have the advantage of being a bit more boredeom-proof should I fancy giving it a thrash

Cheers for the help
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Chris
1985 Kawasaki Z550F

[Kickstart]

Hi

The strokers would not be that bad. Compared to a 70's Honda they would probably be reliable.

That model of CB250 was owned by a guy on here who used a few of them for couriering (mattsmith95, doesn't seem to have been on for a month or so).

The 400 Bandit seems to regularly get people after cdi units. The UK spec ones (single front disk) did not get good write ups.

All the best

Keith
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Traxpics, track day and racing photographs - Bimota Forum - Bike performance / thrust graphs for choosing gearing

[carlmalibu]

dont rely on one or two insurers for quotes.

Find the bike you want THEN worry about the insurance. Within reason, obviously.

I bet with no troubles you could chop £200 off the insurance from the 500s, and then you'd have a bike with more presence, newer, etc. etc.

My main limiting factor was size. At 6'4 I wasnt going to fit comfortably on anything smaller than a 500. It's a bit of a squeeze on the CB tbh, and I'm looking forward to being able to justify buying a hornet.
But yes, I'd really recommend sorting bike out first and then fighting brokers until you get a quote youre happy with, not the other way round.
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Shine on, you crazy diamond
CB500, woop.

[Blau Zedong]

Speaking from experience regarding the older bikes you suggested-

The Suzuki GT200 X5 is a great little bike (I have owned four, and am currently restoring one!), it has CDI ignition, excellent 12V electrics and ebay throws up spares at reasonable prices. However it wouldn't be hugely quicker than your RXS (they will show 85 in perfect condtions on the flat with a light rider).

The Yamaha RD200 has points ignition, a weird (unreliable) combined starter / generator and a self destruct gearbox. Also parts are rare and / or expensive. Nice enough bike to ride, but not really a practical choice for a bike to use. Performance as per X5 unless you drop on an early drum braked version, which are good for about 90!!!!!

The Suzuki X7 or Yamaha RD250 aircooled might be a better choice - useable examples of both still lurk for sensible money. The RD also has a whole industry geared up for spares, and I find parts as easy or easier to obtain than for many newer bikes. Good examples of either will put a ton on the clock ( a real 90 - 95) and make you grin like an idiot after every ride. The X7 is CDI ignition and the E and F model RD's are too if you don't feel able setting points. The pre - X7 GT250 is a good bike but combines the downsides of the earlier RD's (points ignition) with poorer spares availability and a marginally worse chassis / engine package.

Hondas - The CB250K is a good bike but good ones are rare and expensive. Others Honda 250's are pretty crap, being slow / heavy and not all that reliable as four strokes go.

Personally I'd put 5 or 600 quid aside and then watch ebay for the best RD250 that came up - you could get a tidy runner with tax and test for that money.
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18:54:48 Rob Fzs: jews don't give away stuff for free

18:54:59 Rob Fzs: unless its their clothes/ hair/ golden teeth

[.Chris.]

Thanks BlueX5, really knowledgeable and helpful post.

I'm used to setting up point gaps because of the Morris Minors, but it's a right pain in the arse (which is why I'm converting one to electronic). How often would an average bike like that need them re-setting and do they tend to be difficult to access with the feeler gagues on bikes?

I think it'd probably be best to discount the GT200 & RD200 if they're not going to be much quicker than the RXS, as there'd be little point. I've got reservations about buying another stroker due to the poor low-end torque mine seems to have, and also the rather narrow powerband.

The GT250 - I much prefer the looks of the pre-X7 models (I particularly like the 'ram-air' ones), but if they're no good then I shaln't bother with one. Also my (albeit limited) research seems to show that the insurance would rather oddly be more than for a 400cc Bandit!

The RD250 looks nice (in fact there's quite a nice-looking one on ebay at the moment - click).

[G]

Also worth considering is trail bikes for low cc.

I like them for commuting as you get a good view of traffic, they're narrow and have high bars to get over car mirrors.

Plenty of choice, especially when you're happy with something a bit older.

[Blau Zedong]

I've had a Bandit 400. As a huge fan of suzuki 400's I can honestly say I've never been so dissapointed with a bike.

Good points - looked nice, demon brakes.

Bad points - Not that quick, quite bland power delivery. Broke down on several occasions miles from home.

I can say hand on heart my 1975 RD350 is a far better ride then the Bandit. Not quite as quick (but not that much slower actually ), but a million times more characterful and exciting to ride, plus the Bandit beat the RD on RAC callouts 3 - 1 (I've had the RD three years compared to 10 months before I got sick of the Bandit).

https://www.pgmyamaha.com/parts.htm

https://www.yambits.com

combine these sites with Ebay and you have access to most spares you will need.

You are obviously handy with the spanners, the strokers are not too heavy on maintainance, just points / timing / plugs, and checking the carbs are synched and the oil pump is ok.

The bike on Ebay looks OK, I have a seat like that on my 350! Only thing I don't like is the fact it's running premix and it appears the oil filler has been done away with. There is no reason to run a standard RD on premix whatsoever.

PM me if you want to pick my brains any further on old strokers!
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18:54:48 Rob Fzs: jews don't give away stuff for free

18:54:59 Rob Fzs: unless its their clothes/ hair/ golden teeth

[.Chris.]

Sorry to hear about your bad experience with the Bandit! Was yours an import or a UK version? I read somewhere that one version (can't remember which now) has a VVT mechanism which gives grief.

That's quite an impressive spares list for the RD350, in fact it's probably better supplied than the RXS100 on the surface of it!

I still have remaining doubts over getting a stroker. I would really prefer broader power delivery - I really don't like having to rev it so hard to get any decent power. Plus another thing to bear in mind is that if the bike is more than 33hp then it'll have to be restricted. I'm not sure whether a suitable kit would be available for such an old bike and being a 2t it might not like it much.

Lots to think about!
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Chris
1985 Kawasaki Z550F

[Blau Zedong]

My Bandit was a VTEC (actually a rare V-LTD with a nose fairing and clip ons). The VTEC doesn't give grief in itself as far as I know, although setting valve clearances might be fun! In normal riding I found the VTEC to make little difference, if you needed to get a move on it's still best to thrash it to death, although I found you could run the engine down to very low revs in 5th and 6th and it would pick up smoothly wheras a none VTEC 400 would probably stall . If you fancy a Bandit the imports are better, they have a Stainless exhaust and twin discs which on mine were bloody phenominal. Mine had endless carb issues which made it run rich and knacker plugs, eventually got it sorted by a bike shop / dyno (first and last time I ever let a shop work on my bike), but I always hoped it would be like a comfy GSXR400 and to be honest it was far slower and duller. If you want a practical 400 do the decent thing and buy a Honda CB-1 or SuperFour.

I was about to say the Bandit hardly has a broad spread of power, but to be honest I rode the RD earlier and that does sod all outside of the 6.5 to 8k powerband. It's a massive buzz in the right circumstances but when your not in the mood it can get irritating!
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18:54:48 Rob Fzs: jews don't give away stuff for free

18:54:59 Rob Fzs: unless its their clothes/ hair/ golden teeth

[.Chris.]

[KevTM]

the Bandit4 is a good gradual step up from learner legal bikes, i got one after i passed my test and it felt bike and heavy compared to my 125's, only thing is i got sorta bored with it after a few months and got a gsxr but i've still got the Bandit still i keep it as a backup and it's still a decent wee bike to keep, easy to run and keep! can't really go wrong i suppose.

[.Chris.]

Thanks for that KeV6. Was your bandit restricted or full power?

Obviously I'd have to restrict it to 33bhp initially so it wouldn't be overly quick, the full power is 50bhp according to a spec sheet I got from the internet. That sounds like a reasonable power progression to me.

Did you have any reliability problems with the Bandit Kev? Also do you know roughly what I'd have to pay in order to get one in reasonable nick?

Cheers
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Chris
1985 Kawasaki Z550F

[hmmmnz]

i have a cb250 in my arsenal of bike, but compared to the rxs 100 (ihave also owned) its not really a step up. its like a step sideways and sort of down, fun bike, but...
i would go from the rxs straight to a bandit6 or a hornet or one of the naked 6s alll super fun, fairly quick and will keep you occupied for quite a while,
i did the step. a rxs a rgv250 a zx4 a zx6 all of them has left me wanting more.
now im a bit older and have a few greys, the cb250 is a fun wee bike that barely pushes 70.
but to go through the motions i wouldnt get the cb as a par for the course of bike progression
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the humans are dead
I kick arse for the lord
Wiring Diagrams BIDNIP it bitches

[gixasix]

I used a 1996 CB250 as a courier bike for a while. The bike was great for riding round town all day low seat height,really comfy and well balanced with enough power to keep me amused in town.On twisty roads it handled better than i thought it would and was good till about 75-80mph.Motorways it struggled a bit with although it could do around 75mph comfortably any hills would see it struggle a bit.

I also found the running costs with this bike were very low compared to most of my courier bikes.While i had mine the most i had to do was replace chain,sprockets,tyres and change the oil.The one bad thing about them is the tank shape if you drop the bike the tank is probably going to get it!I got mine cheap because the previous owner had bashed in both sides of the tank.

CB250s are never really going to excite anybody with their looks or performance but if you want a good little all rounder with dirt cheap insurance it's worth a look.

[MaybeGuy]

if you like your classics, go for a CB250-N superdream, the things are bloody invincible!
ive recently restored one that was left standing for 5 years outdoors in a field and it runs nicely now.theyre really simple too, so a decent bike to learn about bikes with.
they look quite similar to your 100 too, and have a top end of around 80-90mph.

EDIT: by the look of things, you could save yourself a bit of cash and put a new bigger engine in, looks like you have a lot of play in that frame!
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Blue_SV650S wrote: it was a sh1te wheelie, but it proves that he can get it up in 3rd and can do angles. In summery, mattsprattuk is a gobby little sh1tebag, dopehead tw4t, but sadly for all of us, he probably isn't THAT full of sh1te!!
Kickstart wrote: Hi I tend to agree with Matt. All the best Keith

[.Chris.]

[chris-red]

RXS ftw I loved mine, If I was you I would get a restricted 600 comuter like a hornet or similar. With 33bhp you could get 100mph ish and you would have no trouble with hills. Also with this you can unrestrict it later on and have a completely new bike with nearly treble the power.
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Well, you know what they say. If you want to save the world, you have to push a few old ladies down the stairs.
Skudd:- Perhaps she just thinks you are a window licker and is being nice just in case she becomes another Jill Dando.
WANTED:- Fujinon (Fuji) M42 (Screw on) lenses, let me know if you have anything.

[.Chris.]

RXS ftw indeed! I do like it a lot, but I need some more power! I'll keep it even when I get a bigger bike, might come in handy if the bigger one breaks down or if I bin it.

The hornet is a lovely bike, but they're really a bit too new and expensive to fit in my price range. I'm really looking at spending about £1k, maybe slightly more. Also there's the insurance issue with 600cc bikes. Did they make a 400cc hornet?
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Chris
1985 Kawasaki Z550F