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Why aren't big bikes ever 2t?

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Alexio
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PostPosted: 18:58 - 14 Dec 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Itchy wrote:
Didn't somebody make a 2 stroke that did not require 2 stroke oil?.


http://www.bikechatforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=2373686
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will never give up his CG. I look at my fuel gauge more as a progress bar than a fuel gauge.
G: With my GSXR I do often effectively use it as a scooter with a clutch in town.
ms51ves3: why does it need 500 miles? Are you teaching it how to be a piston?
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 19:07 - 14 Dec 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Itchy wrote:
so why don't they just put two fuel injectors which share the inlet port side by side, I believe even the fire blade has two injectors per cylinder.


Mmm, probably quite possible, although you would probably need 3 and they are rather bulky (need to be at a rather higher pressure than normal injectors.

All the best

Keith
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ms51ves3
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PostPosted: 21:16 - 14 Dec 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kickstart wrote:
Would be quite easy to make. You need the oil for the piston and bearings. If you can compress the mixture without using the crankcases (which could just be done with a supercharger) then you can seal the crankcases and use conventional 4 stroke lubrication.


Which is how a diesel 2 stroke works.

Alexio wrote:
Itchy wrote:
Didn't somebody make a 2 stroke that did not require 2 stroke oil?.


http://www.bikechatforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=2373686


Don't forget the square piston 2 stroke that I posted up as well Wink

Clicky
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Alexio
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PostPosted: 21:27 - 14 Dec 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

ms51ves3 wrote:
Kickstart wrote:
Would be quite easy to make. You need the oil for the piston and bearings. If you can compress the mixture without using the crankcases (which could just be done with a supercharger) then you can seal the crankcases and use conventional 4 stroke lubrication.


Which is how a diesel 2 stroke works.

Alexio wrote:
Itchy wrote:
Didn't somebody make a 2 stroke that did not require 2 stroke oil?.


http://www.bikechatforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=2373686


Don't forget the square piston 2 stroke that I posted up as well Wink

Clicky


Well that's it then, between us with these various ideas we've managed to solve the how of how to create a larger 2 stroke engine, regardless of having to miniaturise some of the parts and possibly millions of pounds of R&D in the future.

I expect a reliable and robust 600cc 200BHP bike before the end of next year Wink
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will never give up his CG. I look at my fuel gauge more as a progress bar than a fuel gauge.
G: With my GSXR I do often effectively use it as a scooter with a clutch in town.
ms51ves3: why does it need 500 miles? Are you teaching it how to be a piston?
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G
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PostPosted: 21:31 - 14 Dec 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can still get biggish 2 strokes, talk to Maico and they'll do you a 700cc!..
http://dirtbike.off-road.com/dirtbike/data/articlestandard/dirtbike/232006/332426/02.jpg
Claimed 82hp/101kg, depending on trim!

Would like a play on one sometime; I was invited to a Maico open day a while ago, but didn't have the time to get down there.
Think it'd be most interesting in supermoto guise.

Maico site: http://www.maicointernational.com/index.html
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27cows
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PostPosted: 21:36 - 14 Dec 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm a big fan of 2 strokes, particularly air cooled ones, but realistically they work best as single or twins, preferably no bigger than around 400cc, at least in traditional form. Most of the big strokers were troublesome, not least the Kawa triples.

Suzuki, I think, could probably have succeeded in successfully making a litre 2T. The GT500 was a cracking bike and extremely tough. If they made a GT1000 twin, I'd buy one Laughing I've never owned or even ridden a Kettle but they are apparently quite civilised (if very slow).

I like the look of that Maico Smile Q-plate one and you've got the perfect commuter right there Wink
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ms51ves3
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PostPosted: 21:38 - 14 Dec 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

27cows wrote:
I'm a big fan of 2 strokes...


You're not the biggest fan though, because that's me Laughing
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27cows
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PostPosted: 21:44 - 14 Dec 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

ms51ves3 wrote:
27cows wrote:
I'm a big fan of 2 strokes...


You're not the biggest fan though, because that's me Laughing


In which case, you will have owned all three of the legendary stroker 500s (GT500, RD500 and H1) Smile If not, go out and buy one of each at once Laughing I nearly had an RG500 too, but the divot I was buying it off stacked it into the side of a bus before I got the chance Confused
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ms51ves3
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PostPosted: 22:03 - 14 Dec 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm only 18, give me a chance Laughing

I can't wait to get my RG500 though.
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27cows
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PostPosted: 22:11 - 14 Dec 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

ms51ves3 wrote:
I'm only 18, give me a chance Laughing

I can't wait to get my RG500 though.


Ah well, time yet. Although an H1 will cost you about the same as an R1 these days Shocked

The RG500 is quite mental. The one I was going to buy had Stan Stephens pipes. Sounded fantastic and went like buggery. Course, the RG is a proper bike, not like the modern plastic LOL Wink
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G
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PostPosted: 22:15 - 14 Dec 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pics of the Maico 'supermoto' show a plate holder, so guessing they come road legal stock. Bars are still a bit too wide, but it would be funny to stick a top-box on such a silly bike Smile.

Oh and (relatively) modern road 250s as well as the recent enduro bikes, but a /real/ 2 stroke fan would probably have a 500cc gp bike around somewhere - I always quit fancied a NSR500 v-twin and they're not too silly prices these days either if you consider the original purchase price.


Last edited by G on 22:20 - 14 Dec 2009; edited 1 time in total
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stevo as b4
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PostPosted: 22:17 - 14 Dec 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've ridden a Honda NS400R, gone to look at 2 RG500's when i was really seriously considering getting one, and i once but only once found an RD500LC for sale. It didn't sound as good when i called the seller to ask about it's history and condition though.

I'm glad to say that im happy not to have brought an RG500 in the end, as if i had of ever seen an RD500 for sale, i would have kicked myself. I know it's not the popular opinion, but id so much rather have an RD500LC than a square four Gamma, but i've just never seen them for sale, and 8-9years later, i think if i did that they are just too unnafordable now, like most classic LC Yamaha's.

The NS400 is a nice bike, and to see the detail and quality that they put into them is really impressive. They are so much better built than an RGV250 for example. The problem with them is that they are a Honda, and engine spares have now for some time been unavailable new, although there are ways to re-build them now with different pistons, and parts from other bike's as well as big bore kits, to get them back on the road. It's a costly job though!
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ms51ves3
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PostPosted: 22:28 - 14 Dec 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevo as b4 wrote:
...they are just too unnafordable now, like most classic LC Yamaha's.


5,000 for a decent one. It's not bad. Or am I seeing the price through rose tinted glasses?
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stevo as b4
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PostPosted: 22:40 - 14 Dec 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah if you have 5k i suppose? Back around 2000-2001 bikes like RD500's, NS400's and Gamma's were selling for anywhere from 800-2200, from what i remember. I viewed a tidy RG500 with 22k for 1800, and saw a non running NS400 for 600!

Different world now, and lets face it all the bikes of the era of fast 2strokes have now become hard to find, and very expensive! There are people with FS1E's, RD350LC's, YPVS's etc, that now can afford to just go out and buy the bikes that they had 25 years ago+ and then either pay someone to restore them to mint condition, or else spend the silly money mentioned for mint examples of these machines.

I remember reading that back in the early 90's that Mark Dent paid 175 for his RG500, that later went on to become the most powerful road going 2stroke in the country at the time at least!
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prawny1
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PostPosted: 23:37 - 14 Dec 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

most notable "big" two stroke would have to be the yamaha tz750 four cylinder.
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27cows
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PostPosted: 07:26 - 15 Dec 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Five grand for an LC500 Shocked I paid 775 for mine in 1993, sold it for 1100 about a year later. Mind you, it was well used Wink

Always been fascinated by the Honda V3 motors but I've not yet owned an NS400 (or an NSR500 LOL).

What on earth would I do with a 500 GP bike? Spares would be a nightmare. Fitting a top box would be a problem Laughing 0-100 in about 3 seconds would be handy away from the lights, admittedly, but I'm not sure I could live with 15mpg with unleaded being the price it is Wink

On my list of strokers to own are Simson S50, RD400, DTR200, PE400 (I've had a 175), RD80LC, Kettle and RG500 (would pare it down, though - that hideous fairing would have to go, for starters Laughing ). Would also love an RX135, RX King and an older RXZ, but importing stuff from overseas is a pain in the arse.

Trabants had two stroke motors. Might be fun to bung one in a bike chassis Laughing
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ms51ves3
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PostPosted: 11:55 - 15 Dec 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

27cows wrote:
RG500 (would pare it down, though - that hideous fairing would have to go, for starters Laughing ).


No, no, no.

You have to keep the fairings. That's part of the appeal.

It needs to be totally standard apart from maybe some expansion chambers and a single seat cowl.
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 11:59 - 15 Dec 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

There was a very nice RG500 on the Stoke toy run on Sunday. It had done about 37k.

All the best

Keith
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ms51ves3
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PostPosted: 12:10 - 15 Dec 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kickstart wrote:
Hi

There was a very nice RG500 on the Stoke toy run on Sunday. It had done about 37k.

All the best

Keith


Any pictures?

I've seen two really good ones. One at a VJMC show last year in Lymm and one at Stafford in October.

VJMC Show RG500

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a376/ms51ves3/IMG_1153.jpg

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a376/ms51ves3/IMG_1169.jpg

Stafford:

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a376/ms51ves3/IMG_2396.jpg
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 12:21 - 15 Dec 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

I didn't take any pics (and made a mess of using the vbox to get a video, started it up and got about 15 seconds of video, must have pressed the stop button by mistake).

However I did spot it in this video:-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6HXoOxNAXo

It is at about 3:29 seconds. Has white wheels so might be the one at the Stafford show.

All the best

Keith
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ms51ves3
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PostPosted: 12:30 - 15 Dec 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

It'll be different from the one at Stafford. The one at Stafford has only 3,000 miles on the clock. I the Stafford bike just spends most of it's time in a heated garage or a kitchen Laughing

Did anyone else watch the auction for a brand new RG500 in Australia quite a while back? It had never been PDIed and had just sat in its crate for 20 years in someone's living room. It sold for 17,000 Shocked

EDIT: Found a thread with some people talking about it.

Clicky
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 12:41 - 15 Dec 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

Saw it, but that isn't a massive profit, Just taking inflation into account and it would probably cost well over 10k of modern money when new.

All the best

Keith
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27cows
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PostPosted: 12:42 - 15 Dec 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

ms51ves3 wrote:

No, no, no.

You have to keep the fairings. That's part of the appeal.

It needs to be totally standard apart from maybe some expansion chambers and a single seat cowl.


Do behave Laughing Stan the man stage 3 engine job, no fairing, all white paint job (not even the Suzuki logo on the tank), maybe have the frame polished or chromed. Get the back end jacked up a bit. That would do for a start Wink
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ms51ves3
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PostPosted: 12:51 - 15 Dec 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kickstart wrote:
Hi

Saw it, but that isn't a massive profit, Just taking inflation into account and it would probably cost well over 10k of modern money when new.

All the best

Keith


I don't think it hit its reserve anyway. It would be a nice bike to have on (a big) mantelpiece.

27cows wrote:
ms51ves3 wrote:

No, no, no.

You have to keep the fairings. That's part of the appeal.

It needs to be totally standard apart from maybe some expansion chambers and a single seat cowl.


Do behave Laughing Stan the man stage 3 engine job, no fairing, all white paint job (not even the Suzuki logo on the tank), maybe have the frame polished or chromed. Get the back end jacked up a bit. That would do for a start Wink


You make me sick Sick

Chrome frame? You chav.
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27cows
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PostPosted: 13:40 - 15 Dec 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

ms51ves3 wrote:


You make me sick Sick

Chrome frame? You chav.


Did the irony of my post pass you by...or was your reply also ironic? Wink

Pass me the Frosty Jack's, I've got an illegal dog fight to go to on my uninsured ped this afternoon and I need a bit of Dutch courage as the mother of my seven kids might be there Laughing
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