Clutchless Shifting

[WildGoose]

who does it? and why?

and on the technical side, does it do the bike more harm than good, or is it better for it? or does it make no difference, i.e saves the clutch but shags the gear box?

i tried it on the CG it didnt sound like it liked it very much, i just let off the throttle like i would normally then crunched it up, it changed, but it didnt sound healthy

[G]

Me, generally.
Because it's quicker.

Put slight upwards pressure on the gear lever, then dip the throttle off a bit then on again. The gear lever should come up by itself from the slight pressure when you dip the throttle.
Not only does it mean that power is applied for a few micro-secs longer but it will save on clutch wear (not that that's ever bothered me ) Done properly it should also help reduce wear on the gear box because it will change when it can rather than when you want it to.

[TiN]

It can save time and make the gear change smoother, if done properly...it also means that you won't pull in the clutch with a handful of revs, which can be embaressing

I can't seem to change from 1st into 2nd particularly smoothly anymore, so I usually clutch it...but I usually change into the other gears without the clutch. Once you're used to it, you don't really think about it...you can keep putting pressure on the gear change lever whilst you've got the throttle open 'cos it won't do anything, but once you close the throttle, it should pop into the next gear...
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[Hex]

1st to 2nd Tin I would suggest using the clutch as you say its harder to do/clunkier...

thats because its a bigger gate (may not be the right word) for it to travel through (ie 1st into second via neautral!)

from second on though I do most of the time

Hex
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[Phoenix]

I never do clutchless shifting, it DAMAGES your gearbox AND your clutch, because your clutch is engaged all the time.

Read this detailed article on the technicalities of clutchless shifting on modern bikes. If you can't upshift smoothly whilst using the clutch, then you need to practice.

https://www.vf750fd.com/blurbs/shifting.html

[Robby]

i always use clutch, because i'd rather buy a new clutch (50 quid) than a new gearbox (200 from a breakers).
also its what comes naturally, and seeing as my cb clutch engages right at the end of the lever i only have to pull back about 2 mil to engage it.

[G]

I didn't read every word of the article, but from what I saw he just suggesting not 'preloading' the gear lever... which I don't do but I reckon is an easier way to learn.

[WildGoose]

was it just me that found that article bloody hard to understand?

[Demonic69]

Clutchless changes damage your gearbox no end. Just think about it, you're trying to engage two MOVING gears. That's what your clutch was designed for. I tried them a few times and agree they're quicker. but unless you got the money to spend on a new gearbox every now and then they aren't really that useful in the real world.
And using the clutch won't really damage it, they're designed to last for years and years. It's riding the cluch that f*cks it up, hey G????
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[TiN]

Nah...*poor* clutchless gear changes damage your gearbox...well executed ones don't...
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[G]

from what I understood, according to that^ article it's changing gear with the power on (clutch or not) that damages gear.

[Demonic69]

All do. Regardless of how good you are. You just can't expect two spinning gears to mesh without damage
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[TiN]

The gears are still spinning, even if you use the clutch ...unless you stop conpletely between each gear change
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[G]

Okay, but damages it significantly more, while he seemed to suggest that providing you dip the power (and don't preload the lever) you'll do a lot less damage with or without clutch.

[Demonic69]

Don't you dip the power when you use clutch??
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[TiN]

[Annabella]

OK, this is my interpretation of that article:-


To change gear the engine wants to be in a free coasting state. (i.e. when the back wheel is driving the engine rather than vice versa).

So there are two choices, - when the clutch is disengaged,
OR when you roll off the throttle

Either is as good as the other. So clutchless gear shifts are OK

PROVIDED ~ you change gear firmly, at the correct time - ie when you have reached the lowest throttle point.

Likewise, changing gear with the clutch - if you don't chnage gear when the clutch is completely disengaged and then you dump the clutch as you yank on the power you're going to do damage as much as if not more.


BASICALLY - if you are competant and smooth, you won't do any damage with either method.
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[G]

\o/... /me hands over [Voice of Reason] to Anna

[Annabella]

Cheers G!!!
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[Demonic69]

Ever noticed Engine Braking with the throttle off? Still there with the clutch in?? You don't disengage by rolling off the throttle, just stop pushing power through the back wheel. The clutch disengages and re-engages the gears.
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[Annabella]

Unfortunately my dear Dean, there is a moment when the engine is being driven by the back wheel....momentum and all that!!! good try though Dean. But Clutches *do slip!!!!
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[Demonic69]

But you're never gonna get to that point. You'd have to roll off the throttle comnpletely and wait for the drive to stop. Slower than using clutch then.
My Dear Anna;)
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[Annabella]

No, you do reach that point - there are many all the way down the speeds.... there will always be a point at which the back wheel is moving faster than the engine - if you dip the throttle enough. This is the point at which the gear pops in....it'll do it itself if you just let it!!! So it's not like you have to "find" it !![/u]
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[Demonic69]

I dunno, I'd still much rather have to replace the clutch than the gearbox and everything I've read leads me to believe that, if you're doing it for speed, clutchless will damage the gearbox. Otherwise we'd have clutchless engines...
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[G]

I'd interpret it as when the rear wheel is going the same speed as the gears... this will mean a slight decceleration due to friction as to keep a constant speed there needs to be a constant accelerationt to overcome the friction (inc wind resistance etc)