Caught a little over limit, but don't agree with cops speed

[kart racer]

Was silly i know, on leaving Bury Hill on Sunday (swarming with them) I was heading back towards Arundel, due to high cop to bike ratio was being really good. In a 60 limit and was doing 58-60, caught up some berk in his jag doing 45mph. Waited for a clear stretch of road, checked behind only mate there - accerated past pulled in, rolled off throttle back down to 60 and carried on my merry way, 20 seconds later, dreaded sound, bike cop had been behind my mate where i couldn't see him.

I briefly checked my speedo during the overtake and saw somewhere around 66-68 and honest to god this was about the time i started to reduce speed. Policeman had clocked my mate at 74 mph during his overtake and said that i must have been doing the same speed as he did not overtake me (surely this is why he kept a distance between us so he could accerate into a gap?).

Is it worth my arguing the toss as i do admit to doing 66-68 during the pass but not 74? I was under the impression from when i got my cage licence back in 98 that if you broke the limit during an overtake it was ok as long as you got back down to the limit sensibly (i.e. not then appear to brake test the vehicle you have overtaken)

Any sensible advise would be welcomed.

I have to say though i always thought the police picking on bikes thing was rubbish, but have to say that some of the car driving i saw that also happened right in front of the police that got ignored, can see where people who have felt victimised are coming from.
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[lydanial]

he clocked your mate and not you?

in that case surely he cannot charge you with speeding.

car driver was doing 45 and you nipped up to 60 and past, just because your friend overtook more aggersively doesnt mean that you did in the first place.

the copper is just guessing how fast you were going, and has not put you on radar or anything?

i really cant see how he can charge you at all.

someone come and help with suggestions as i really want to know the legalities on this myself.

[shaun_04]

So what did the copper say/do to you? (give you anything?)


and the fact that your mate done 74 is irrelevant. He could have been doing much more but if it is only for a short amount of time then he wouldn't pass you.

It seems like the copper has no proof at all and is just waiting for you to admit something you didn't do.

[kart racer]

i never admitted anything, he gave me paperwork, but he did say that in me signing it i hadn't agreed to anything.

He had judged my speed off that of the bloke behind, no rader or camera etc.

A little annoying 8 and a half years and zero points. Hopw would you suggest i go about arguing my case? don't want to fight a battle i am unlikely to win and then get shafted for more.

cheers for any help

matt
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Winners never quit, and quitters never win

[metcarf]

yeah, without hard evidence, the case wont stand on court. estimated speeds dont count for anything, they have to have a properly calibrated speedo, which records dpeeds, and only certain cop cars have that. they won't just accept the coppers word over yours. he was probably just having a rubbish day, maybe the wife was being a real nag! good luck, fight the polis!!!

[metcarf]

oh, and get a lawyer, thats your best bet!

[rsooty]

I am 95% sure that the police have to be following you for a set distance (I believe it is 1/4 mile) and get an average speed over that distance before they can do you for anything, and if you were only overtaking I doubt it was a long enough distance.
What paperwork did he give you? If it is only a producer chances are nothing will happen after you show your docs. I was pulled in my car for speeding but they had no proof of speed so just gave me a producer to annoy me a little.
Sooty

[kart racer]

produce docs, £60 and 3 points if paid within 28 days

if he had been following me for 1/4 of a mile i definaltey not have had an average of 74 mph - i was actually being good (for once)
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Winners never quit, and quitters never win

[Ariel Badger]

He will have to stand in court and say I think he was doing XXX MPH at a guess. Your brief will say he is talking XXX amount of bolloxs.
Case dismissed.
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Bikers make great organ donors, get 115 on your licence today.

[Dischord]

In situations like this you can either accept it, or face a lengthy span of letters, court etc sometimes it's just not worth the hassle but it's entirely your choice.

If cops don't have a speed gun, I was under the impression it takes two of them (and they have to be traffic cops) for an estimation to mean anything in court, otherwise it doesn't mean a thing.

I personally would fight this one, seems you have a very good chance. Don't be worried about court appearances and the like, its nothing these days and not really hard to make a good impression against the other chavs/pikeys that are always getting sent there, you'll seem like an angel with a little effort
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[Damon]

fight it. 9 times out of 10 they will drop the charges without going to court.

Keep us posted

[dodsi]

I know the road you were on, where abouts did he pull you over?

It's well worth fighting as it's a very, very pissy case.

You overtook and slowed down, big deal

when I got caught speeding the copper had me bang to rights, I was going 110+ in a 70mph zone but got let off.

[kart racer]

we stopped at the start of the 1st turn off for Arundel, couldn't stop in the first instance as too close to bends
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Winners never quit, and quitters never win

[dodsi]

I know where you were, seriously contest the case, the cop has your friends estimate but not yours.

No evidence.

[DaveH]

Have you had a wee look at this site?
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ZX7R & ER6F

[Kickstart]

Hi

For evidence they need the corroborated opinion of a police officer. That can be corroborated by another police officers opinion, by a calibrated speedo, radar gun, etc.

Seems he basically has zero evidence against you. Getting him to admit this in court will be the difficult bit (remember the police are trained to be believable in court).

I would agree with DaveHogg and say to go onto Pepipoo.

All the best

Keith
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[stinkwheel]

Although I would probably keep quiet until such time as you are given a Notice of Intend to Prosecute. They have to issue one within 14 days of the alleged offence. This can be written and either handed to you or sent through the post or it can be done verbally at the time.

I am assuming the only piece of paper they gave you at the time was a HORT1 telling you to produce your documents in 7 days?

If it was done verbally you would have been cautioned (you have the right to remain silent etc.) then they would have said "We are reporting you for consideration for prosecution for the following offence:" they would then read out the offence and ask if you have any comments which they would write down.

So, if they didn't do that and you don't receive anything through the post within say 16 days, you're home free. No need to kick up a stink or draw their attention to the issue before then.

Do produce your documents though.
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
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[jacqui]

I accompanied a friend to court (he thought he was going to loose his licence) in Northallerton.

He was followed on the A64 by the dumbest traffic copper ever!

When he was pulled over the copper writing out the ticket forgot to rite down the speed Wayne had been travelling at. Wayne admitted to me it was around 100mph.

When the magistrate saw there was no speed recorded, he asked Wayne if he could remember how fast he was going!

Wayne replied "I'm sorry, I can not remember"

The magistrate replied, "Thats ok, we'll have to let you off this time"

If Wayne had admitted to his actual speed that day, they would have still done him.

So, fight it Kart racer, they have no evidence, they can only prosecute you if you admit to being over the speed limit!
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never say "never"!!!

[Ichy]

[Wafer_Thin_Ham]

[matty49]

A riding instructor who i done my lisence with once told me. He was doing 120 odd on a motorway when a police bike pulled him over. The officer asked him deos he have a misses?? he replied " yes " so the copper geos, right when you get home get her nail varnish and on your clocks put a red line at the side of 100mph. Dont let me see you going over that. And sent him on his way

[Paivi]

Police bikes apparently get their speedos calibrated very regularly due to the fact that they often don't have the second corroborating colleague with them.
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[Ichy]

[Wafer_Thin_Ham]

[neo680]