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Proof that the law is an ass

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Mister James
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PostPosted: 17:33 - 20 Aug 2007    Post subject: Proof that the law is an ass Reply with quote

https://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6955071.stm

Quote:
The man who knifed head teacher Philip Lawrence to death has been allowed to stay in the UK after winning an appeal against deportation.

Learco Chindamo, 26, is serving a life sentence for killing Mr Lawrence outside his London school in 1995.

Chindamo's lawyers argued that deporting him to Italy, where he was born, would breach his human rights.

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instigator
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PostPosted: 17:39 - 20 Aug 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

I read that earlier on today.

I'm not surprised at this kind of news anymore. Neutral Exclamation
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Mister James
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PostPosted: 17:49 - 20 Aug 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

Once again, the Government of this country fails to protect its own citizens, while extending the support of the Human Rights legislation to cover only criminals and shitbags.
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mr jamez
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PostPosted: 18:03 - 20 Aug 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't understand why he can't be deported? its not as if he can argue that he faces torture or being murdered.
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Mister James
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PostPosted: 18:05 - 20 Aug 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

He isn't even claiming that - he simply desires to stay here, and the way that the government has implemented the ECHR act supports his desire over the needs of the population.
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lukamon
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PostPosted: 18:25 - 20 Aug 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

hes getting let out next year too
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LeeR
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PostPosted: 18:59 - 20 Aug 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let's just hope he slips in the showers or trips down the metal stairs like they used to... Wink
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cestrian
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PostPosted: 01:58 - 21 Aug 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know whether to like or dislike these threads/subjects. So many complaints and nobody offers a solution. Well perhaps that is a little harsh, one or two folk have some ideas but appear not to put them into practice. I understand that James writes letters to various people outlining his grievences but unless we all do the same, he is wasting his time, which is a great shame as I believe his letters would be written in a style that would attract attention.

Any ideas what can or should be done about this injustice? I think it's an awful situation and believe he should not be allowed to stay at the expense of the tax paying public.
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Redliner
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PostPosted: 02:40 - 21 Aug 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

cestrian wrote:

Any ideas what can or should be done about this injustice?

https://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z230/triaxiom/RANDOM/riot-police.jpg

Direct fu**in' action. Nothing says were unhappy like taking to the streets in vast numbers and letting it be known.
All to often were a nation that angrily shakes a metaphorical fist via the the conduit of the pen upon the paper.
Sometimes there's a need to stand up and make yourself heard in a literal sense.
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Mister James
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PostPosted: 09:52 - 21 Aug 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

A million people marched against the war in Iraq, and we still went in.

Direct action is usually total bollocks, all it does is distract attention from the actual topic at hand, and allow the government to say "there, we told you so, lucky we've got these new laws eh?".

Ridiculous European human rights legislation has been written into our law because lots of fluffy dick-heads took more interest than we did.
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cestrian
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PostPosted: 11:02 - 21 Aug 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

So marching/demonstrating, writing letters, complaining on internet forums, complaining directly to your MP and (for some) praying seems to have no affect at all. Apart from Redliners suggestion of direct action we have no idea of how to force change.

We're all screwed unless you have a card to play.
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Paivi
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PostPosted: 11:19 - 21 Aug 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

He turned the way he did living in London, going to school in London, joining the gangs in London, etc, so why should Italy accept him, when they've done nothing to make him into what he is. He doesn't even speak the language and has no real ties there. I doubt Italy would even have him.

If he didn't have that piece of paper going for an Italian passport, this question wouldn't even arise, as he'd be staying anyway, as a British citizen. Mrs Lawrence couldn't then make this spurious claim of having her human rights infringed.

I think that by deporting him, his human rights would be infringed by far more than Mrs Lawrence's by allowing him to stay. Like it or not, he's served his sentence and, therefore, is deemed to have paid his debt to society.
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Mister James
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PostPosted: 11:44 - 21 Aug 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paivi wrote:
He turned the way he did living in London, going to school in London, joining the gangs in London, etc, so why should Italy accept him, when they've done nothing to make him into what he is.


A valid point, I must confess.

Quote:

He doesn't even speak the language and has no real ties there. I doubt Italy would even have him.


Regardless of the rights and wrongs of this particular case - therein lies the crux of the matter for me. I see - on a daily basis - countless criminals/morons/etc allowed to stay in this country because their mother countries won't accept them, despite being signed up to all the same international conventions as us.

As a general point, I'm inclined to believe that it isn't so much EU legislation that is wrong, it's the way that our government and judicial system choose to implement it. After all, every other country seems to pretty much do what they want ref. immigration, or BSE, or strikes, or blockading ports, etc.

Quote:

If he didn't have that piece of paper going for an Italian passport, this question wouldn't even arise, as he'd be staying anyway, as a British citizen. Mrs Lawrence couldn't then make this spurious claim of having her human rights infringed.


I think it's a little rich to call it a spurious claim. Her husband has been killed by a foreign national, your earlier (and accurate) comments not withstanding, she is entitled under law to expect him to be deported. The valid arguments you raised above have not even been entered into by the AIT, they have solely based their judgement on his 'right' to family life - something that he has taken away from another family irrevocably. Hence, the law is an ass, because it has placed his desires over those of the victim - and probably those of society in general.

Call me cynical, but I doubt very much that he will emerge from prison a well-rounded and caring individual, who will devote the rest of his life to atoning for his crime.

Quote:

I think that by deporting him, his human rights would be infringed by far more than Mrs Lawrence's by allowing him to stay. Like it or not, he's served his sentence and, therefore, is deemed to have paid his debt to society.


He's nowhere near having served his Life sentence, he is simply up for parole next year after serving the minimum term. Bearing in mind the current prison population, he is likely to find his parole expedited.

Quite frankly, I don't believe that his 'right' to live with his family in this country outweighs the public's right to be shot of murdering fuckwits.
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Mister James
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PostPosted: 11:56 - 21 Aug 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

cestrian wrote:
So marching/demonstrating, writing letters, complaining on internet forums, complaining directly to your MP and (for some) praying seems to have no affect at all. Apart from Redliners suggestion of direct action we have no idea of how to force change.

We're all screwed unless you have a card to play.


Sometimes, I don't know why I bother.

This topic has been done to death, and yet people are still talking arse about it.

Complaining to your MP can and does affect their actions, which in turn affects how they vote, which in turn affects the outcome of new legislation. The key thing is that such things need enough support - if your idea isn't popular, then it doesn't get implemented!

The same goes for people who take part in grassroots party activity - they are the ones putting the MP's in power, so they are listened to, and thus help shape policy! Even agitating for the BNP has an effect; even though they will never, ever become the governing party, the moderate levels of support they have demonstrated in some areas have forced other parties/MP's to adjust their views and attitudes to compete. You can see a similar effect with the Tories at the moment - New Labour keep stealing their policies and thus their thunder, but I don't care because it means that we are getting the policies we want - you don't always need to win an election to get a result.

Educated middle-class liberals tend to take more interest in politics than most of us, hence we see huge amounts of legislation generated with their wishes in mind.

People often want to do something easy like sign a petition, or go on a quick march, but it's meaningless if there are more people working harder to further the opposite school of thought.

Coordinated political action is what is required - make a political party or personage beholden to you, help them gain power, and then the sun will shine on your policy ideas.

People are - in general - too lazy and indolent to engage in democracy properly. They don't hold the government to account, they don't follow politics, and they don't take part. They thus have only themselves to blame when they get hit with the shitty end of the stick one day.

And - as I said before - direct action doesn't force change at all, it leads to you getting your face kicked in by the Public Order squads, and to 'normal' people abandoning any support they had for your cause.
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cestrian
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PostPosted: 13:45 - 21 Aug 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

James, I accept your opinion as good. But as we have seen before in the east end of London, people have complained to their MP's, the MP's voiced the opinions of the electorate only to be told to shut up and tow the party line. I would like to believe you were completely correct on this one.

Regards
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Mister James
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PostPosted: 14:06 - 21 Aug 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

More people in the Labour Party - and in theory, the country - believed that she was wrong. Thus, her words had little effect on policy - such is the compromise inherent in democracy.

It wouldn't bother you if you were on the other side of the equation, it only worries you because your opinions fell on the losing side.
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konsoli
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PostPosted: 14:45 - 21 Aug 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mister James wrote:
Once again, the Government of this country fails to protect its own citizens, while extending the support of the Human Rights legislation to cover only criminals and shitbags.
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Walloper
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PostPosted: 15:17 - 22 Aug 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paivi wrote:
Like it or not, he's served his sentence and, therefore, is deemed to have paid his debt to society.


Which suits me fine.

If it was a member of my family he'd stabbed then I would probably need the cell he vacated. Mad Laughing

The law is maybe an arse, but I would be out for good behaviour soon and he would still be deid. Wink
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Dan 4RR
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PostPosted: 18:59 - 22 Aug 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

Redliner that is an amazing photo, it's now my desktop background. Cool Picture speaks a thousand words as they say...awesome. Thumbs Up
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freestyler_onli
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PostPosted: 19:08 - 22 Aug 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

Even if he is deported to Italy, being part of the EU - he could come straight back again.

It's about time we say Middle Finger Middle Finger to the Human Rights Act
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Mister James
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PostPosted: 21:36 - 22 Aug 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

freestyler_onli wrote:
Even if he is deported to Italy, being part of the EU - he could come straight back again.

It's about time we say Middle Finger Middle Finger to the Human Rights Act


No he couldn't.

If he was removed there, he could. Deportation tends to have a time limit attached to it, before which you can't return. His passport/name/fingerprints etc would go on a BIA watchlist.
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TheShaggyDA
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PostPosted: 13:23 - 23 Aug 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

cestrian wrote:
So marching/demonstrating, writing letters, complaining on internet forums, complaining directly to your MP and (for some) praying seems to have no affect at all. Apart from Redliners suggestion of direct action we have no idea of how to force change.

We're all screwed unless you have a card to play.


Viva la Revolution! Smile
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craigie b
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PostPosted: 15:35 - 23 Aug 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

For all that we laugh at the french, I do think they have a good way of making a point. Don;t like what the government is doing? Have a riot. That makes the cunts listen.

We can point out 'well its not very democratic' but the peoples voice gets heard in a way that makes the government think twice.

When the government tried to introduced a smoking ban in Spain, people simply refused to adopt it. The middle classes of the UK have got to soft. I'd quite happily turn a few cars over in the name of democracy.
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Mister James
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PostPosted: 22:43 - 23 Aug 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

So tipping my mum's car over is going to help her how, exactly?

The French control their government via obscenely powerful trade unions, and enormous strikes. The recent riots did nothing but incite massive police crackdowns, earn thousands of beatings for dark-skinned immigrants, and burnt lots of innocent people's cars.

Wow, power to the people.

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Kwaks
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PostPosted: 23:07 - 23 Aug 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
So tipping my mum's car over is going to help her how, exactly?

The French control their government via obscenely powerful trade unions, and enormous strikes. The recent riots did nothing but incite massive police crackdowns, earn thousands of beatings for dark-skinned immigrants, and burnt lots of innocent people's cars.

Wow, power to the people


Oh but come on now, not exactly how it was reported now was it?

Certain papers would have us believe the French action is the way forward, surely they do not decieve Wink
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