A little insurance con

davylynne · Two Stroke Sniffer Joined: 16 May 2007 Karma :

My renewal came through for a car I'd sold. As usual I threw it in the bin; I almost always get a new quote a renewal time.

A few weeks later I got a new insurance certificate. The ignorant cow on the phone told me they'd renewed it because I hadn't told them not to and I'd have to pay £30 to cancel it - even though I didn't ask for it in the first place.

It is possible to give a company continuous payment authority on your credit card for things like this to be done annually (could be convenient). However, I did not do so.

I believe mentioning any of the following should make them see the error of their ways:
1 - attempting to take money from the credit card without permission is fraud
2 - Contract law says something about contracts cannot be made through inaction
3 - If they provide the facility for continuous payment and sign you up for it by default without bringing it to your attention (including having an inconspicuous tick box on an internet application form that is already ticked) they are guilty of inertial selling

So check your renewals carefully! and if it says they will renew it unless you stop them, ring them up and tell them they're a bunch of thieving cunts and you're going elsewhere.

Incidently, this lot were yescarinsurance.co.uk.

Thanks for reading - now get back to work!

Keir · World Chat Champion Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Karma :

admiral also do this but you do get a letter clearly stating that if you do nothing they will assume it is fine to recover you based on them not wanting you to accidentally be without cover.
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Current : '08 Yamaha FZ1s
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iooi · Super Spammer Joined: 14 Jan 2007 Karma :

Don't worry you are not alone....

Many ins do this now when you pay via CC, in fact they ask you over the phone if thats what you want to do.... There will have been a tick box, could be you miss read it as often it will say please tick here if you do not want to set up a CA, rather than the tick here to set up a CA.....
Always remember to say NOOOO....

As ever ALWAYS read the T/C...

Your bank will be unable to help you as its a CCCA and unless you have cancelled it, you have to get the ins co to do it.

BTW its not fraud as you willingly gave them your card details in the 1st place.
Fraud is where a 3rd party takes money without your knowledge.

Moral of the story NEVER throw renewals in the bin, always call them and tell them you do not wish to renew.

Look at it from the ins co side, no contact in reply, means that the quote is AOK and as such you must want it to continue... Bet if they canclled the policy and you wanted it to continue you would be screaming even louder that they had failed.....

Far to many people seem to think that doing nothing and it will all be OK, then shout and scream when it all goes tits up and blame everyone else but themselves...
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Just because my bike was A DIVVY, does not mean i am......

Hetzer · Super Spammer Joined: 19 Feb 2007 Karma :

davylynne · Two Stroke Sniffer Joined: 16 May 2007 Karma :

Its fraud if I didn't give them permission to keep the card details.

In this case I was not asked as I always say no. Just because they don't ask it doesn't mean they won't tick it anyway.

And if it were simply buried into T&Cs its probably a case of inertial selling.

I agree for some people it can be useful e.g. if you're on holiday at renewal time. Conversly - what if you're on holiday at renewal time????? Twisted Evil

davylynne · Two Stroke Sniffer Joined: 16 May 2007 Karma :

stinkwheel · Bovine Proctologist Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :

It is written into the contract but I suspect that unless they specifically drew your attention to the clause, they can't enforce it.

I also wonder if this type of scam (and face it guys, it IS a scam) comes under distance selling legislation in which case you could tell them to take their cancellation fee and shove it up their arse.
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

Itchy · Super Spammer Joined: 07 Apr 2005 Karma :

COUNTER SUE them

IT IS ILLEGAL TO ACCEPT SILENCE AS AN ACCEPTANCE OF A CONTRACT,

this principle is VERY well tested in law , and companies who try this will lose in court , the problem is 99.999% of people won't try to get this back by calling a solicitor.

and the £30 cancellation fee borders on outright fraud since you each insurance policy is a contract , one which you did not agree to and they are charging you for a non existant contract,
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Spain 2008France 2007Big one 2009 We all die. The goal isn't to live forever, the goal is to create something that will. In the end, your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.

olionel · Brolly Dolly Joined: 22 Dec 2006 Karma :

Quinns do this aswell..so ye beware
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1998 ZXR400 - Teenage Love (lasted three years, then she turned lesbian and left me)
2001 XRV750 - Wife Material (still getting to know her but head over heels in love)

davylynne · Two Stroke Sniffer Joined: 16 May 2007 Karma :

MattEMulsion · World Chat Champion Joined: 29 Aug 2004 Karma :

Have they actually took money from you via your credit card? If so then can't you just contact your credit card provider and tell them it was an unauthorised transaction?
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Yamaha YZF-R6

iooi · Super Spammer Joined: 14 Jan 2007 Karma :

Somewhere you will have agreed to it.
Did you tell then NOT to keep your details ? Bet not.

If you can prove that you did not agree to a CA and you will need this in print, then you can get your card provider to dispute the payment.
Otherwise you will just have to plead on the ins Co's good nature not to apply the £30 fee. Shouting and screaming at them is not the way to get it back either, you need to be polite but firm and get them to show you in writing where you agreed to it last year.

A CCCA is a PIA, having said that the same can be set up of a debit card.

Could be argued by them that its not a new contract but a extension of the existing one.
If its on a Visa card the visa regs are very clear that you have to cancel before the due date of payment. The onus is on you to inform the co, as you have entered into a legally binding agreement with them.

Just remember to tell them now, that they cannot take any more from you. Keep the details and if they take anymore next year you can get your card provider to help sort it out.

Does not fall under distance selling regs...

Finglonga · World Chat Champion Joined: 27 Jul 2004 Karma :

Its common practise and the renewal for would say you don't need to do anything. Your insurance cover will carry on unless you tell them otherwise.

You can't blame a company for helping you out by not having you ring to renew it every year. It also stops the forgetfull numpties who are riding/driving around with no insurance because "They forgot". Rolling Eyes

I always cancell direct debits when I cancell insurance saves it happening. If it does after I have cancelled then the company is then leaving itself wide open.
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Andy Sez....
F.Y.Y.F.F.

Benrly · Borekit Bruiser Joined: 24 May 2007 Karma :

It's perfectly legal. They're not starting a new contract, they're simply not cancelling the old one - as you have not asked them to do so.

As long as you agreed to set it up in the first place (you may have, mistakenly), which I'm sure they will provide you proof with if asked for, then you've got no grounds not to pay their cancellation fee.

MattEMulsion · World Chat Champion Joined: 29 Aug 2004 Karma :

I don't agree with this practice in the slightest but I guess its a little like a mobile phone contract. They carry on going unless you state that you want to cancel it.

Mobile phones contracts in this manner I can accept, but insurance cover I think shouldn't be allowed to get away with it. I never ignore renewals and always tell them I don't want it either by phone or email.
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Yamaha YZF-R6

stinkwheel · Bovine Proctologist Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :

The thing is this is a NEW thing, it's only started happening over the last few years. As far as I'm concerned, I buy one years insurance off them at the price agreed for a one off payment. That's how it has worked with me for the last 13 years, this year was the first time ever they've tried to spring this automatic renewal thing. In fact I specifically tod them (clearly and audiably) that this was NOT ok but they wrote it into the proposal form anyway.

Which reminds me, I told them by telephone I did npt find this acceptable, I think I'll tell them by writing too before it comes up.

It isn't simply a continuation of a contract anyway as the terms and conditions have changed. Unless they are suggesting they'll give you the next years insurance at the same price for EXACTLY the same level of cover?
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

Itchy · Super Spammer Joined: 07 Apr 2005 Karma :

but the thing is with insurance it specifically states when you are not covered ie the end of the policy,

Each and every one of my policies has said expires at 1159pm XX date, which means they are effectively renogotiating the contract when it is sort of past consideration. (a take on if you mow a random strangers lawn you can't demand money as it is past the window of opportunity to consider the price vs service).
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Spain 2008France 2007Big one 2009 We all die. The goal isn't to live forever, the goal is to create something that will. In the end, your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.

Finglonga · World Chat Champion Joined: 27 Jul 2004 Karma :

iooi · Super Spammer Joined: 14 Jan 2007 Karma :

stinkwheel · Bovine Proctologist Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :

Well I for one can think of no other industry that works that way.

Imagine if Tesco took it upon themselves to order your next weeks shopping, on the assumption you wanted exactly what you bought this week and just delivered it, taking the money off your debit card. Oh, and their prices have changed dramatically over the week, you could've got the same shopping at Asda for 30% less

You'd kick up shit right?

What if they'd sneaked it into the small print on their terms and conditions? You'd still kick up shit wouldn't you?

As far as I'm concerned, each and every transaction on my credit or debit card should have been individually authorised by me. I find it disturbing that someone can legally put a transaction through using my saved debit card details a full 12 months after I last had dealings with them.
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

Chriss · World Chat Champion Joined: 07 May 2005 Karma :

Good job I go through at least two cards a year really. Laughing

I've phone up both my insurers today and specifically to not auto-renew my policy.

Bet they still try it on.
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TheShaggyDA: I've got 3 or 4 pairs that predate my wife, so at least 11.5 years old.

stinkwheel · Bovine Proctologist Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :

iooi · Super Spammer Joined: 14 Jan 2007 Karma :

Itchy · Super Spammer Joined: 07 Apr 2005 Karma :

iooi · Super Spammer Joined: 14 Jan 2007 Karma :

I know what you are saying, and agree with you.

But if they clearly state that if you wish to continue the policy, then you do not have to do anything. That puts the ball firmly in YOUR court to respond, if you do not want to continue. From a company point of view its good customer service as you are saving them the cost of a call or price of a stamp to reply.

Personally i would contact them either way, just for my own piece of mind that something is being done.
Many people are happy that they have to do nothing to continue with their policy...

I bet there would be far more cars running on the road without insurance if people had to call up and say YEP i want to continue... As we all know how lazy most people are when it comes to stuff like this...

Never been asked what time i want a policy to end, but always get asked what time do you want it to start.....
Just looking at mine start time 10:00 15/03 end 12:00 13/04. Thats a long 12 months....
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Just because my bike was A DIVVY, does not mean i am......