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Syx
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PostPosted: 23:30 - 12 Dec 2007    Post subject: F1 Engine Development Freeze Reply with quote

gizmag wrote:
December 10, 2007 Last Friday, at the World Motor Sport Council in Monaco, the FIA, which governs Formula One racing, made a decision to immediately freeze engine development for the next 10 years. Unbelievably, the engine each F1 team presents and homologates by the end of next March will be the engine that team races until 2017 – and the billions of Euros normally spent on engine development will be channeled into peripheral systems.

https://www.gizmag.com/f1-shock-no-more-engine-development-for-10-years/8481/

10 years! Surely they can't expect F1 teams to make use of the same block for that long?
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MoshizZ
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PostPosted: 23:43 - 12 Dec 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not upgrade it.

They have a new engine every 2 races im led to believe.
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Teaman
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PostPosted: 23:51 - 12 Dec 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

hmm,
not sure how thats going to help the smaller teams,
tbh I dont know how it will help anyone. there will be loads of small print, I think I'll wait to see what next seasons races turn out like before i decide to give a monkeys
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JonB
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PostPosted: 00:17 - 13 Dec 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

So the team that has the best engine next March will win for the next 10 years? Fantastic. Rolling Eyes

If they are going to do something as dramatic as that then why don't they just develop one engine for all cars and then freeze it for 10 years.
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iCraig
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PostPosted: 01:11 - 13 Dec 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thats Honda fucked then! Judging it on this years performance they had one of the worst engines out there! Confused

Sometimes I don't understand the FIA, they seem to be fucking around with f1 too much recently.
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Syx
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PostPosted: 01:26 - 13 Dec 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only advantage I can see to this is better parts for our cars - we don't need engines that rev up to 19k so if they are forced to develop better external components then that will (eventually) pass on to the consumer market.

Honestly I think a few years down the line the FIA will be forced to review this one.

MoshizZ wrote:
Not upgrade it.
Sorry, I should have said "same block design", I didn't expect them to make use of the exact same engine for 10 years! That would be asking just a little much.... Mr. Green
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The Tot
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PostPosted: 01:40 - 13 Dec 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

That just defeats the point of having a prototype series in the first place! So WHERE are we going to have testing and new technologies developed from?! Same block design? Man, in 10 years we'd probably be running fuel cells and stuff like that - internal combustion petrol will be phased out! Wink Rolling Eyes
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m99dws
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PostPosted: 07:44 - 13 Dec 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jon B wrote:
So the team that has the best engine next March will win for the next 10 years? Fantastic. Rolling Eyes


And that's different from now? Whoever makes it round the first bend wins anyway. It's a shit sport now, and had been for a long time.
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chrisw
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PostPosted: 09:23 - 13 Dec 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

A bit more reading on the subject....

https://www.fia.com/public/f1_purnell_fia.pdf

If it forces F1 teams to invest in new technology then it will be great for the sport as that normally leads to great racing (look back at the aero and turbo eras).

We'll have to wait and see what happens.....
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NSR Mick
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PostPosted: 10:11 - 13 Dec 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

Craig- wrote:
Thats Honda fucked then! Judging it on this years performance they had one of the worst engines out there! Confused



I'm pretty sure Honda could rustle up enough R&D cash to get it sorted by then.
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Wafer_Thin_Ham
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PostPosted: 10:21 - 13 Dec 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

gsxrmick wrote:
Craig- wrote:
Thats Honda fucked then! Judging it on this years performance they had one of the worst engines out there! Confused



I'm pretty sure Honda could rustle up enough R&D cash to get it sorted by then.


That's being pissed away on getting the motogp bike up to speed. Laughing .
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Scotch Bonnet
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PostPosted: 10:45 - 13 Dec 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looking at the FIA's site, the homologated engine must have been run in two race meetings in 2007.
On the plus side for Honda, though the engine wasn't the problem (think Sato at Montreal, the works cars in low-downforce configuration at Monza) - it was the appalling 'normal' aero package.

The FIA wrote:
As part of the total 10-year freeze on engine development, only engines which have been homologated by the FIA and delivered no later than 31 March 2008* may be used at an Event during the 2008-2017 Championships. Any such engine must include all the parts described in the 2008 F1 Technical Regulations and be identical to one which has completed two race Events during the 2007 Championship season

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Last edited by Scotch Bonnet on 11:09 - 13 Dec 2007; edited 1 time in total
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McJamweasel
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PostPosted: 10:51 - 13 Dec 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

Craig- wrote:
Thats Honda fucked then! Judging it on this years performance they had one of the worst engines out there! Confused


Actually the Honda engine is pretty good, it's their aero that let them down this year.

Titz wrote:
So WHERE are we going to have testing and new technologies developed from?!


Kinetic Energy Recovery systems are being introduced from 2009 and with no limits, whatever the engineers can get working will be OK. That is where the real technological improvements will come from in the next few years anyway, not pushing the design of the internal combustion engine even further.

m99dws wrote:
Whoever makes it round the first bend wins anyway. It's a shit sport now, and had been for a long time.


That should all change in the next 2 years. Traction control is banned from 2008, along with other driver aids and the introduction of standard car parts to level the playing field. This will bring the drivers back into it. From 2009 slick tyres will be reintroduced and (hopefully) more restrictions on the number and type of aero devices. This will mean that the cars will be able to follow more closely the one in front and will aid overtaking.

Add in Alonso's move back to Renault (then possibly Ferrari in 2009), Kimi defending his crown, Hamilton without an internal fight with his team-mate, Honda with Ross Brawn and the 2nd Adrian Newey Red Bull and you have the makings for a good couple of seasons. Smile
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EuropeanNC30R...
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PostPosted: 14:30 - 13 Dec 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wonder what happens when a new team comes along, will they have to get engines from an existing engine manufacturer?

I'd like to see something more along the lines of forcing the cars to achieve a high MPG figure during racing by limiting their fuel. Once they've poured the billions into fuel economy research the benefits will hopefully filter down into road cars.
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iooi
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PostPosted: 14:54 - 13 Dec 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Add in Alonso's move back to Renault (then possibly Ferrari in 2009), Kimi defending his crown, Hamilton without an internal fight with his team-mate, Honda with Ross Brawn and the 2nd Adrian Newey Red Bull and you have the makings for a good couple of seasons.


So long as they can keep the politics out, and get that pillock Max Mossley booted out, there may be a chance.
Ever since Ferrari were the only team not to join the breakaway group they get the backing of the FIA all the time.....

Win a race with a illegal floorpan.. OK never mind don't do it again.... But you can keep the win and the points....
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Scotch Bonnet
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PostPosted: 15:34 - 13 Dec 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

maurice wrote:
I'd like to see something more along the lines of forcing the cars to achieve a high MPG figure during racing by limiting their fuel. Once they've poured the billions into fuel economy research the benefits will hopefully filter down into road cars.

Me too, I have a tendency to rant on the subject. Refuelling is part of what's killing the racing on-track, as it's simply a question of hoping you can pit later than the guy in front.
A car should be faster after a pitstop, not before.

I'm relieved to see there's going to be open development on the reclaimation systems, last time i saw it mentioned it was going to be a control box supplied by the FIA. Though i'll bet good money someone's going to get an illegal traction control system into theirs before the end of 2010 ("it's a 'dynamic efficiency management system' guv..." Wink).
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AJI
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PostPosted: 19:17 - 13 Dec 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

McJamweasel wrote:
Add in Alonso's move back to Renault (then possibly Ferrari in 2009)


That might be wishful thinking (for Alonso). Renault don't want a one-year contract with him, they want something a bit more substantial. And whether Ferrari wants him depends on how good the Kimi/Massa pairing is next year. If Alonso even gets a drive with anyone next year (and Honda is a possibility) then it'll be interesting to see if he's got any speed whatsoever when he isn't in one of the best cars...

As far as the engine freeze goes, it would be good if it forced teams into finding other ways of making the car quicker or more efficient, but at the same time, and as someone else pointed out, it rather hampers any team that doesn't get the basic design spot on...
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McJamweasel
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PostPosted: 20:54 - 13 Dec 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

AJI wrote:
That might be wishful thinking (for Alonso). Renault don't want a one-year contract with him, they want something a bit more substantial.


They (Alonso/Renault) have signed a 2 year deal (https://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7136498.stm), but I would be very surprised if there wasn't some sort of get out clause for Alonso after 1 year. Even if there isn't, I'm sure Ferrari could buy him out of it fairly easily.

They (Alonso/Renault) have signed a 2 year deal (https://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7136498.stm), but I would be very surprised if there wasn't some sort of get out clause for Alonso after 1 year. Even if there isn't, I'm sure Ferrari could buy him out of it fairly easily.

Mclaren have had to put a halt on development of 3 aspects of their car for 2008 following the Spygate bollocks, it seems that the FIA/WMSC's report into their 2008 car has found some similarities with the Ferrari. In order to avoid any further penalties Mclaren have announced these self imposed bans. I think they may of just waved bye-bye to the 2008 driver and constructor championships.

https://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=41443&PO=41443
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cqueen
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PostPosted: 23:18 - 13 Dec 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

One of the main benefit of F1 is the technology developed often filters down into road cars. So I dont think this ban is a good idea.
They've also banned heating blankets for tyres..should make things interesting!
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EuropeanNC30R...
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PostPosted: 23:50 - 13 Dec 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

cqueen wrote:
One of the main benefit of F1 is the technology developed often filters down into road cars. So I dont think this ban is a good idea.
They've also banned heating blankets for tyres..should make things interesting!


Yeah, might be a new opening in the market for tyre warmers.
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