Courtesy bike insurance

[EdSpur]

Anyone know where I stand in the following situation?

Had a courtesy bike from the dealer where I recently bought my CB500 which was in to sort out some teething troubles.

Parked it on a public road and when I came back it is badly damaged. Looks like it's been knocked over.
Dealer wondered if I'd failed to put stand down properly but it must have been hit by someone as it was upright. Can't imagine someone picking up a bike unless they knocked it over.

Apparently their insurance has an excess of £750 which they expect me to pay it seems unless my insurance will cover it.

My insurance says I can ride a bike with the owners permission with 3rd party cover only. I mentioned this and dealer said they'd count as the third party.

Anyone know the situation?

Can't imagine my insurance covers it so am freaking out a bit to be honest.
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CBT - 05/05/07. DAS - 07/01/08. Previous: CG125 Current: CB500. Both black!

[Kal]

3rd Party covers others, I wouldn't have thought it covered the dealer bike in this instance.

Report it to the Police -it's leaving the scene of an accident, see if there is CCTV covering the area - Pull the data protection act on the CCTV owners for a copy showing your bike.

Chances are though it will come out of your pocket one way or another though
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Kal...
I Like To Hoon It Hoon It I Like To Hoon It Hoon It I Like To Hoon It Hoon It Ya Like To (HOON IT!).
1984 GB250 Clubman,1983 CB250N Superdream, 1999 GPZ500S

[EdSpur]

Cheers for the info.
Phoned my insurance people and they are insisting it's down to the dealer's insurance.

Are they definitely wrong do you know?

If the excess is really £750 I think it would probably be better taking my £150 excess.

Even if my premium went up by £100 for the next 5 years I'd still be better off. (That's a 50% increase).

Are those the sorts of figures we're talking about do you think?


Also, is that normal for a dealer to have such a high excess on their policy or is he just trying to fleece me?

(There are two guys in there, one reasonable bloke who I trust to a certain degree and who's just saying we'll see how things work out and hasn't mentioned anything about money yet, and another nasty looking little bloke who immediately started swearing and shouting figures off the top of his head like £1600 - £1800 to repair it and this supposed £750 excess.)
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CBT - 05/05/07. DAS - 07/01/08. Previous: CG125 Current: CB500. Both black!

[Kal]

Sorry half asleep there when I first posted.

It's a good question the bike isn't yours and belongs to a third party.

Dealers excess is notoriously high - commonly higher than that.

Tell them that you want to take the bike to a couple of other dealers to get quotes for the damage...
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Kal...
I Like To Hoon It Hoon It I Like To Hoon It Hoon It I Like To Hoon It Hoon It Ya Like To (HOON IT!).
1984 GB250 Clubman,1983 CB250N Superdream, 1999 GPZ500S

[Ichy]

Not unusual to have an high excess on a loan vehicle. How else can they afford to cover it for any rider? Did you sign anything when they handed the bike over? Should of been on there.

Most hire cars have at least a £500 excess.

[Ichy]

[EdSpur]

Didn't sign anything at all.
They are far too casual about these things it seems.

He just gave me the keys and let me ride off.
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CBT - 05/05/07. DAS - 07/01/08. Previous: CG125 Current: CB500. Both black!

[EdSpur]

[Ichy]

Chances are that you weren't fully insured if nothing was signed. Trouble is they still have your bike.

If you feel responsible then offer them what you think is reasonable. Just wait and see what they ask for. If they ask for the excess then ask for a copy of the insurance documents.

[EdSpur]

I was legal on the road under my own 3rd party insurance.

If he'd said to me before I left, "By the way it's a £750 excess if you damage it." I'd have got on the bus.

I only asked him if he had a scooter I could borrow while my bike was being fixed and he comes back with keys for a Hornet!

Surely I must have some recourse over not being made aware of the excess?
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CBT - 05/05/07. DAS - 07/01/08. Previous: CG125 Current: CB500. Both black!

[Kal]

[dodger]

[Ichy]

Sorry but if your trying to worm out of paying anything at all then you deserve what you get.

You admit that the bike was damaged while you were responsible for it. Expect to pay. They could refuse to claim from their insurance and ask for the full amount for repairs.

Just wait to see what they say.

[EdSpur]

[EdSpur]

[Ichy]

Don't think your in a position to make any offers, balls in their court. Wait and see. You don't have to answer them right away.

Didn't think you was trying to get out of paying, just checking

[EdSpur]

[Ichy]

If that is the case then I guess the best you can do is offer to pay in instalments? BTW how much is the hornet worth? Was it newish?

[EdSpur]

52 plate CB600FS (had to have a bloody fairing didn't it...) with about 27k on it.
Not in very good nick from what I could judge by the brief look over I gave it.

What is that worth? About £2600 or something?
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CBT - 05/05/07. DAS - 07/01/08. Previous: CG125 Current: CB500. Both black!

[Ichy]

[EdSpur]

Dealer reckons he can get it through on my insurance with them as 3rd party and has done similar before.

Turn for the worse in this whole situation anyway though.

Didn't really give the full story before.
The reason I had a courtesy bike in the first place was because they sold me a machine which was not fit for purpose.

Picked it up Wednesday and had to do one bump start after stopping to fill it up (it only just started) and one jump start after stopping at my Mum's place - had to get my girlfriend to come and jump start it.
Jump started it Thursday morning thinking the ride to work would charge up the battery. It wouldn't start again even after I just switched it off.
Obviously a problem right?
So bought a jump starter, charged it at work and jump started myself to get home.
It cut out once on the way home and I had to repeat the process.

Jump started it Friday morning to get it back to dealer which is when I was lent the Hornet.

Picked my bike back up on Saturday afternoon.
All seemed well and this was when the dealer said about doing it through my insurance. (One of this dealing duo insisted that I should tell my insurance company that I was riding my own bike and knocked there's over - I insisted equally strongly that I was not going to lie to an insurance company.)

Told me the battery had been fully charged and I had new brake pads front and back. (This obviously should have been done before I took the bike in the first place.)

All seemed fine Saturday, problem was apparently fixed.
Rode up to ExCel arena for the show today and back to a mates house, no problem.

Here's where the "It's getting worse" bit happens.

On the way back to mine, the bike completely cuts out on me mid corner.
I manage not to come off it but it was close. (Remember I only passed DAS less than a month ago, not hugely experienced yet.)

Had to call AA (waited almost 2 hours due to mix up with my location) and the guy eventually found a blown fuse, replaced it only for it to blow again instantly.

Eventually diagnosed a problem with either alternator or voltage regulator. Bear in mind that I'd told the dealer I didn't think it was just a case of the battery needing charging when I took it back on Friday.

AA man unplugged the voltage regulator which allowed the fuse to not blow and me to get home but obviously no charge is getting back to the battery (not that it ever was it seems).

So I can't use it for work tomorrow.

I just feel sick that I traded them a perfectly working bike (plus £600) for one that not only has let me down over and again but has now proven potentially dangerous.

I just don't know what to do now.
I want my money and bike back but seriously doubt I will get that.
I have no faith in them to fix the bike properly and have no reason to believe there's not something else serious wrong with it.

Assuming I have to keep the bike I'll have to get it checked by someone I can trust which will cost me more money and although a large part of me wants to have nothing more to do with the dealer, they shouldn't be allowed to sell bikes in this condition should they?

Anyone got any advice?

Of course the issue of the smashed Hornet remains unresolved but I am now starting to really consider telling them where to stick that should they ask for any money. Seems to me it can count as my compensation!
Sorry if that makes you guys think badly of me. I'm just so mad right now I don't know what I'm going to do.
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CBT - 05/05/07. DAS - 07/01/08. Previous: CG125 Current: CB500. Both black!

[Kal]

Bollocks, I am really sory to hear that as I'd said that it looked good.

I'd put money on it being the regulator/recifier. It isn't the problem on the CB500 that it is on other Honda's but like Suzuki's rust problem it is a common issue across the range.

A new one will set you back about £75, a salvage one about half that. I'd suggest the dealer ought to change that for you - as like you said really not fit for purpose.

There is a simple way to test it but electrics are way not my speciality...

As for confidence, thats something that comes with practise. You are five minutes out of your DAS and handled a complete loss of power in a corner - you should have some faith in your riding.
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Kal...
I Like To Hoon It Hoon It I Like To Hoon It Hoon It I Like To Hoon It Hoon It Ya Like To (HOON IT!).
1984 GB250 Clubman,1983 CB250N Superdream, 1999 GPZ500S

[iooi]

Sounds a lot like the hornet was not a hire bike as such, just one they borrowed off the shop floor to keep you running, which i guess is why you did not have to sign anything.

Not sure you ins will cover the repair on the bike, as 3rd party tends to be someone else who has lost out. I think they may consider the damage on the bike to be caused by you (even though it was not) as you were responsible for the bike and not covered as such.
As you didn't sign anything there is no hire agreement, so no excess to be paid.

I would be temempted to take a trip to Citizens advice and see what they have to say or ask a solicitor about this, or if you have any sort of legal cover call them and get proper advice.

Just dont give them any of your card details.......
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Just because my bike was A DIVVY, does not mean i am......

[EdSpur]

Thanks Kal, and don't worry about it.
Fingers are firmly crossed that there's nothing else wrong with it and if that's the case I still think it was a decent buy.
It's the dealer that's the problem, not the bike.

Having said that, they have now fixed it properly (I hope).

All the above was written 10 mins after getting in from the freezing cold waiting for the AA - I was pissed off to say the least.

In the cold light of day I called them this morning, told them how furious I was and they asked if I thought the bike would make it over to them or if it needed a van.
I thought it would probably make it and it did.
They fitted a new voltage regulator (and lost my keyring off the bunch I gave them in the process ) in 15 mins and all seems well.

I still don't know for sure how the Hornet is being dealt with but I got the impression this morning that he's now resigned himself to having to deal with it without me getting involved due to the trouble I've had with the one I bought.
Will wait and see though. They haven't asked me for anything yet.

So this afternoon I took the bike for a proper shakedown to see if any more problems came to light.
55 miles later all is still good.
Have now fitted my screen, clock etc so the bike feels like it's really mine now and I'm happy again!

[Managed to find one of those "private roads" everyone's always talking about and open the throttle a bit. Possibly a bad move given what I'd been saying about my confidence in the bike, but I guess I got swept up in the moment.... Having previously only been about 75mph on the way back from my test, I got up to 100mph on the CB and it had plenty more to give. That was the limit of my bravery (foolishness?) at that moment though so slowed it down again straight away. What a rush though! Now I'm perfectly confident in the bike again... until the next thing...... ]
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CBT - 05/05/07. DAS - 07/01/08. Previous: CG125 Current: CB500. Both black!

[Ichy]

It'll all sort it self out in the end. Enjoy the bike, thats what they are for but just take it a bit easy at the moment, until the roads dry up a bit at least.