Resend my activation email : Register : Log in 
BCF: Bike Chat Forums


Dealers and FI international

Reply to topic
Bike Chat Forums Index -> General Bike Chat
View previous topic : View next topic  
Author Message

EddyJones
Crazy Courier



Joined: 20 Jan 2007
Karma :

PostPosted: 14:10 - 28 Feb 2008    Post subject: Dealers and FI international Reply with quote

Lo all, im currently on a A2 licence and whilst looking round for new bikes I always get the 'wel only charge you 190 on top of the price to restrict it'

I always say I can do it myself with washers and a dyno printout and they constantly say its not legal you can only use FI washers in one bike.

I KNOW im correct in saying theres no legal way of showing your bike is restricted and when i ask for the difference between me putting washers in and getting a dyno and the FI shit they say about all the databases and crap which just pisses me off more. How do you lot cope with it and is there any way to shut them up quickly?

Up to now its happened in Tillstons, petite and france and another small local workshop/garage.

Pissed off, Semi rant over
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Aka Matt
Trackday Trickster



Joined: 15 Feb 2008
Karma :

PostPosted: 14:14 - 28 Feb 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

190 to restrict it!?!? And I thought I was being ripped off having to pay 125 to get my bandit done...........
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

NSR Mick
World Chat Champion



Joined: 26 Jun 2005
Karma :

PostPosted: 14:15 - 28 Feb 2008    Post subject: Re: Dealers and FI international Reply with quote

EddyJones wrote:
I always say I can do it myself with washers and a dyno printout and they constantly say its not legal you can only use FI washers in one bike.




The you have to use FI is a myth probably started by them so that they can line their own pockets even more. Thumbs Up
____________________
If you dont like the way that I ride.......Stop trying to keep up!!!
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website You must be logged in to rate posts

eddyh
Nova Slayer



Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Karma :

PostPosted: 14:18 - 28 Feb 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's a load of crap to get more money off bikers. A dyno print out would prove your bike is at 33BHP. £190 for a couple of 15p washer is taking the piss. Even if including labour cost it shouldn't cost that much.

Best thing to do is restrict you self, or get a decent garage to fit the washers then get a dyno print out. There needs to be something done about it really, because its a load of shit.

Another option is to ride unrestricted, but would invalidate you insurance. In other words, unless you do it your self it's a lose lose situation.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

EddyJones
Crazy Courier



Joined: 20 Jan 2007
Karma :

PostPosted: 14:24 - 28 Feb 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Im aware of all the options, obviously if i bought a bike from the garage and when I came to collect it it would be on a trailor, would they have any right to refuse me to take the bike?

Not the best way to start business with a company tbh Sad
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

iooi
Super Spammer



Joined: 14 Jan 2007
Karma :

PostPosted: 14:25 - 28 Feb 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pointless getting it dyno'ed as the police will just take it away to be tested if they want to.....
____________________
Just because my bike was A DIVVY, does not mean i am......
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

eddyh
Nova Slayer



Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Karma :

PostPosted: 14:28 - 28 Feb 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

EddyJones wrote:
I'm aware of all the options, obviously if i bought a bike from the garage and when I came to collect it it would be on a trailer, would they have any right to refuse me to take the bike?


No, if you bought it and aren't riding it illegally, nothing they can do. If they stop you, best to go else were.

Are you getting the bike form new, or second hand?
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Kickstart
The Oracle



Joined: 04 Feb 2002
Karma :

PostPosted: 14:34 - 28 Feb 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

iooi wrote:
Pointless getting it dyno'ed as the police will just take it away to be tested if they want to.....


Exactly the same with the FI kits. But at least having a dyno printout / certificate shows willing.

As I have said before I have not found anything which says were the 25kW limit is measured at. Suspect it is a crankshaft figure (in common with homologation figures) so any dyno reading is a bit of a fugde, including any the police do (although they will probably have a fair margin for error to avoid expensive legal challenges).

All the best

Keith
____________________
Traxpics, track day and racing photographs - Bimota Forum - Bike performance / thrust graphs for choosing gearing
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

EddyJones
Crazy Courier



Joined: 20 Jan 2007
Karma :

PostPosted: 14:38 - 28 Feb 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

The bikes im looking at are 2nd hand and from a garage.

Sadly I cant afford the insurance (gsxr 600 srad) so no more need to worry but it still pisses me off when dealers start going on about it, do they get any sub costs from the kit?
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Kal
World Chat Champion



Joined: 02 Jan 2007
Karma :

PostPosted: 14:42 - 28 Feb 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is NOTHING written anywhere that says you have to even have a provisional licence to own a bike, let alone a Class A/A2.

Just ask them do they want to make a sale or don't they?

Any hassle tell them that the FI certificates are not considered legal proof in this Country because any fool can remove their kit. Thumbs Up
____________________
Kal...
I Like To Hoon It Hoon It I Like To Hoon It Hoon It I Like To Hoon It Hoon It Ya Like To (HOON IT!).

1984 GB250 Clubman,1983 CB250N Superdream, 1999 GPZ500S
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

eddyh
Nova Slayer



Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Karma :

PostPosted: 14:47 - 28 Feb 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

EddyJones wrote:

Sadly I cant afford the insurance (gsxr 600 srad) so no more need to worry but it still pisses me off when dealers start going on about it, do they get any sub costs from the kit?


Yer labour cost, and probably get parts cheaper, I reckon they make a decent profit on restrictor kits.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Wafer_Thin_Ham
Super Spammer



Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Karma :

PostPosted: 14:50 - 28 Feb 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

iooi wrote:
Pointless getting it dyno'ed as the police will just take it away to be tested if they want to.....


Some insurance companies want a dyno printout/certificate.

There's no part of the law that states you need a certificate. Just ask them to find the relevent piece of law and show it to you.
____________________
My Flickr
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

phk6
Nearly there...



Joined: 24 Apr 2006
Karma :

PostPosted: 14:53 - 28 Feb 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kal wrote:
because any fool can remove their kit. Thumbs Up


thats what the last copper said to me so i was like 'dum de dum dum dum da de dum dum de la la la la la FUCK THEIR ONTO ME PEG IT (bike noise) HONK zoom honk (/bike noise)
____________________
Current .. 2008 BMW R 1200 GS Adventure ..
Before .. 2003 Yamaha Fazer 1000 .. 2004 Kawazaki Z1000 .. 2003 Suzuki Sv1000s .. 1999 zx6r Track Bike .. 1999 CB 500 Cup ..
/Phil
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website You must be logged in to rate posts

iooi
Super Spammer



Joined: 14 Jan 2007
Karma :

PostPosted: 22:37 - 28 Feb 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Big_Ham wrote:
Some insurance companies want a dyno printout/certificate.

There's no part of the law that states you need a certificate. Just ask them to find the relevent piece of law and show it to you.


But if you only have a restricted licence then a ins co would be withing their rights to ask for one, law would not come into that. If you could not supply one then they could simply refuse to ins you.

Bit of a grey area as a dyno could be fudged, or a certificate forged. I guess they are then covering their backs should you have a shunt, they can then simply walk away quids in, if they check and its not got a kit fitted.

To be honest this whole restricted thing is a joke and a bodge job. It should simply have been based on the bikes producing the power output as std and not as now where you can fit them to anything.
____________________
Just because my bike was A DIVVY, does not mean i am......
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Charlie
World Chat Champion



Joined: 27 May 2007
Karma :

PostPosted: 22:47 - 28 Feb 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kickstart wrote:
As I have said before I have not found anything which says were the 25kW limit is measured at. Suspect it is a crankshaft figure (in common with homologation figures) so any dyno reading is a bit of a fugde, including any the police do (although they will probably have a fair margin for error to avoid expensive legal challenges).

All the best

Keith


Hmm I seem to remember when I got my bike dyno'ed he was telling me the police used him to test bikes they bring in, and from the sounds of the conversation they used the wheel... next time I go there I could ask if you wanted?
____________________
Past: Honda x8rs, Honda City fly, Honda Hornet 250, Honda VFR750, Yamaha xt600e.
Current: Honda CBR929RR & Yamaha XT660Z Tenere
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

mattgirv
Trackday Trickster



Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Karma :

PostPosted: 22:53 - 28 Feb 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

iooi wrote:
Big_Ham wrote:
Some insurance companies want a dyno printout/certificate.

There's no part of the law that states you need a certificate. Just ask them to find the relevent piece of law and show it to you.


But if you only have a restricted licence then a ins co would be withing their rights to ask for one, law would not come into that. If you could not supply one then they could simply refuse to ins you.

Bit of a grey area as a dyno could be fudged, or a certificate forged. I guess they are then covering their backs should you have a shunt, they can then simply walk away quids in, if they check and its not got a kit fitted.

To be honest this whole restricted thing is a joke and a bodge job. It should simply have been based on the bikes producing the power output as std and not as now where you can fit them to anything.


I don't think even that would work. The problem is there are police officers who don't even recognise bigger bikes.

A friend on a XJ900 got pulled, because the officer thought he should have L plates.

Even without that kind of a scenario, what is to stop someone modding their bike to get more power out of it than a stock bike? Not to mention the fact that numerous imports have different power ratings/restrictions, so you end up with one model and about 20 variants of it.

It can be hard enough trying to figure out the model of your own bike in some instances let alone having someone who isn't familiar with your bike or even bikes in general dealing with it.

The only real way I can think of having enforceable laws regarding this is to not have a restricted license at all, but then that would obviously defy the point of it being introduced in the first place.
____________________
Bikes: 1998 Honda VFR800Fi, 26,500 miles Laughing
1989 Honda CB-1, 38,000 miles
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

GiXXXer
Nova Slayer



Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Karma :

PostPosted: 23:02 - 28 Feb 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

if its just the intake restriction in your bike, the shop i work for will get the kit and fit it for you for £200 ALL IN!!! we are in york so i suppose its not much use to you is it?
____________________
Soo close to buying a 748 Biposto
Current Bike-1999 600 bandit Wink
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Kickstart
The Oracle



Joined: 04 Feb 2002
Karma :

PostPosted: 23:06 - 28 Feb 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

ds55 wrote:
Hmm I seem to remember when I got my bike dyno'ed he was telling me the police used him to test bikes they bring in, and from the sounds of the conversation they used the wheel... next time I go there I could ask if you wanted?


Be interesting to know, although it also wouldn't surprise me if it was just tested to be 25kW, with nobody saying about where it was measured.

mattgirv wrote:
Even without that kind of a scenario, what is to stop someone modding their bike to get more power out of it than a stock bike? Not to mention the fact that numerous imports have different power ratings/restrictions, so you end up with one model and about 20 variants of it.


They could just nail it down as much as Germany. Pretty much any modification has to be inspected and recorded on your registration documents, and with imports they could just test them as part of the SVA test. Power recorded on the registration docs (and draconian checking for unauthorised mods).

Government doesn't seem to care about costing us time and money with pointless bits of wasteful bureaucracy (eg SORN), so not really much to stop them.

All the best

Keith
____________________
Traxpics, track day and racing photographs - Bimota Forum - Bike performance / thrust graphs for choosing gearing
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

jackw72
World Chat Champion



Joined: 18 Nov 2006
Karma :

PostPosted: 23:08 - 28 Feb 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok I also need the answer to the poster's question because when going to purchase a bike at my local dealers they bullshit me also about having to deduct "about £300" for restrictors which I just laughed at him for.

So, does anyone have any suggestions on how to combat this?

Thumbs Up
____________________
08/11/2007 A2 Passed.
Suzuki GSXR 1000 K3
Rapid Training passed
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

TheDonUK
World Chat Champion



Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Karma :

PostPosted: 23:25 - 28 Feb 2008    Post subject: Re: Dealers and FI international Reply with quote

EddyJones wrote:
and is there any way to shut them up quickly?



Yes, Say you dont appreciate being screwed over because you are a new biker give them the Middle Finger and walk out the door with your money and find another bike...

If they are trying to screw you like this over something as petty as a restrictor why even buy from a dealer as their aftersales are likely to be shit.

I would say dont restrict it, If and when you get a producer asking to see proof of restriction, find a friendly mechanic slip him 10/20 quid and ask him to type, on headed paper that your bike was fitted with (insert washer part number) on (insert date) restricting your bike to 33hp, that has worked for me.

The one thing people seem to forget is that you dont need to prove you are restricted to the smarmy traffic police that just stoped you, you 'prove' it to an administrator at your police station of choice, who likely knows nothing about the 33bhp laws, let alone bikes...

Also for them to goto the extent of dyno'ing your bike, you are pretty much gonna have to wheelie past a police station, killing a few children, kittens and minorities in the process. That or when they ask if you are restricted start sniggering as you say yes...

Be sensible about it, the only real concern should be if you crash and the insurance company find out the bike was not restricted your insurance would be void, but then you would usually have a couple of days before the inspectors came to look at the bike in which you could fit washers...

My 2 pence...
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Noxious89123
World Chat Champion



Joined: 10 Jun 2007
Karma :

PostPosted: 23:26 - 28 Feb 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Went to Suzuki Castledines today (forgot to get my book stamped when i had it serviced >_<).

Asked the mechanic about restriction, says thy can do it for most bikes for about £100~£150 bepending on he bike. he also said thy can restrict a CB500 for about 50p because they have a simple way of doing it. Something about "inlet stubs", that have "33bhp" stamped on them...

Also fitted me a new headlight bulb, free of charge Very Happy (Although i *did* have it serviced th day before. But still!)
____________________
'06 Honda CBR125RW-6 ~ '00 Honda CBR600F-Y ~ '07 Honda CBR600RR-7 ~ Bikeless Sad
'53 Ford Ka 1.3 ~ '03 Vauxhall Astra SRi 1.8 ~ '52 Vauxhall Astra SRi 2.2 ~ '53 Vauxhall Astra GSi
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

tutton
World Chat Champion



Joined: 04 Jan 2008
Karma :

PostPosted: 23:28 - 28 Feb 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Me "The bike is going to be used for offroad purposes so the power output dosnt worry me, no need for restriction"

Dealer "oh ok"

Not much else he could say is there?
____________________
Past: '05 Peugeot XPS '99 Aprillia RS125 '94 FZR600R
Current: '02 ZX636 A1P '51 CCM R30
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

J.K.R
World Chat Champion



Joined: 06 Feb 2005
Karma :

PostPosted: 00:13 - 29 Feb 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heard the stories about them being the only company to get them as they are the only legal way over and over - to the stage i cant be bothered arguing my point against them.

Fair enough, FI have put the work into making the washers to restrict the bike down to 33bhp, But they are charging the dealers ~£100 per 'kit' (Whether that be 1 washer, 4 or whatever) then the P+P and labour on top of that.

Wonder how FI would feel if mechanics all over the country were to measure the kits before they were fitted and they contributed the dimensions to ebay for a few £ to cover listing fee's (All you would need to do then is use the dimensions yourself or have an engineer make the washer(s) up and fit them, Perhaps a run on the dyno for proof?)
____________________
www.oldskoolsuzuki.info
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

iooi
Super Spammer



Joined: 14 Jan 2007
Karma :

PostPosted: 07:34 - 29 Feb 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

J.K.R wrote:
Wonder how FI would feel if mechanics all over the country were to measure the kits before they were fitted and they contributed the dimensions to ebay for a few £ to cover listing fee's (All you would need to do then is use the dimensions yourself or have an engineer make the washer(s) up and fit them, Perhaps a run on the dyno for proof?)


Well at the very least they would lose the right to sell the parts and could potentally be sued for counterfiet goods.
Dealers arn't daft they know they are onto a winner as the vast majority of new bikers will pay the money with no idea of what is involved.
Maybe they do what you say anyway in a underhand way, buy a kit take the sizes and then make their own for any more they need. All they then need to do to copy the doc's provided and give to biker.
____________________
Just because my bike was A DIVVY, does not mean i am......
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Wafer_Thin_Ham
Super Spammer



Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Karma :

PostPosted: 08:48 - 29 Feb 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

iooi wrote:
Big_Ham wrote:
Some insurance companies want a dyno printout/certificate.

There's no part of the law that states you need a certificate. Just ask them to find the relevent piece of law and show it to you.


But if you only have a restricted licence then a ins co would be withing their rights to ask for one, law would not come into that. If you could not supply one then they could simply refuse to ins you.

Bit of a grey area as a dyno could be fudged, or a certificate forged. I guess they are then covering their backs should you have a shunt, they can then simply walk away quids in, if they check and its not got a kit fitted.

To be honest this whole restricted thing is a joke and a bodge job. It should simply have been based on the bikes producing the power output as std and not as now where you can fit them to anything.


Most insurance companies will also take a dyno run as proof. All the ones that I have asked about said they would also take a dyno run.

Yep the law's an ass. 33bhp for 2 years is crazy anyway. 1 year at 33bhp fine, then another at 55 or something would teach you so much more. Hey ho it's all changing to be even more difficult soon.
____________________
My Flickr
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts
Old Thread Alert!

The last post was made 18 years, 38 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful?
  Display posts from previous:   
This page may contain affiliate links, which means we may earn a small commission if a visitor clicks through and makes a purchase. By clicking on an affiliate link, you accept that third-party cookies will be set.

Post new topic   Reply to topic    Bike Chat Forums Index -> General Bike Chat All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Page 1 of 1

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum

Read the Terms of Use! - Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group
 

Debug Mode: ON - Server: birks (www) - Page Generation Time: 0.13 Sec - Server Load: 0.95 - MySQL Queries: 14 - Page Size: 139.47 Kb