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WD Forte |
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WD Forte World Chat Champion
Joined: 17 Jun 2010 Karma :
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Posted: 11:29 - 19 Oct 2023 Post subject: This YBR that went to Scotland and back |
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TLDR:
A tale of inconclusive results and intermittent faults
In fact it went from Severn Beach to Portvollo near Stornoway and most of the way back on A roads
(cos L plates.)
https://www.bikechatforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=335846
It pissed down a lot of the time but the bike kept going
until it didn't.
It broke down near Ludlow just north of Hereford where the rider intended to stop for the night at his folks.
It stopped with 33 flashing out on the eml
33 just says 'ignition coil' on the look up table
It restarted but broke down again after half a mile
with the same error code and as it was getting late and he'd been on it all day, he rang recovery and the bike was eventually dropped off to me a week or so later.
At first it didnt start when I tried a couple of times
so I went and fetched the meter and tools and it started!
After that it would start easily and I couldn't find any obvious faults.
Hmm.. so what to do?
Code 33 suggested the coil is breaking down or has bad contacts
I removed the coil and the connectors were sound enough and the coil tested out ok on the meter but were slightly high on the primary by half an ohm.
3 ohms against a spec of 2.2-2.6 ohms according to the Hyenas manual.
The system is simple
The ignition switch is main power and supplies every device
on Brown wires at turn on.
The coil has Brown supply in in and an Orange out to the ECU where it's switched on and off by the ECU to create the sparks.
Bike charges battery at 14V when running, battery connections sound, wiggling wires and connectors and shaking bike has no effect.
Power in good, ECU pins clean and bright
It just wouldn't go wrong for me.
But, code 33 right? so maybe the coil is breaking down under use/heat so a new one was ordered from Wemoto
as a precaution.
New coil arrives I fit it and it fires up.
I leave it running for 15-20 minutes more wiggling tapping shaking etc and no apparent problems
it just keeps going.
Until........
He turns up to take it away and gets half a mile down the road when it stop with code 33
WTF?
it restarts and he comes back when it cuts out as he comes to a stop when I first see the code 33 for myself
moar wtf?
I whip the coil off and test it out of curiosity
and find it has the electrical characteristics of the CDI
coils from earlier carbed bikes
The primary and secondary coils are much lower than spec
0.5/5k against 2.5/10K
I dont like that as the primary current will be far higher
than the stock coil and could damage the ecu switching circuit over time so tell him to send the bugger back
or shell out for a pukka Yamaha one from Fowlers.
I test the original coil again but this time use some brand new meter leads and it tests out perfick.
Oh FFS! Why cant the bastard just burst into flames
then we know what to fix.
These intermittent faults can be a real arse ache to solve
One thing that had been in the back of my mind was as he took it away I recalled thinking the headlight looked a bit 'flickery' and mused over checking it and maybe putting the scope on it.
When I refitted the original coil I opened and cleaned the regulator plug and there was small amount of oxidisation on a couple of pins so I sprayed some contact cleaner in there
When it started, the headlamp gave a steadier output and he took it away with both of us wondering how far he'd get
but it took him 8 miles back to Severn Beach no problem.
he also said the headlamp seemed a bit brighter.
Is that all it was? is it fixed? dunno, hope so.
At this point I can only theorise the iffy RR contact put spikes on the power line which caused the ECU to have some conniptions.
Time will tell I spose. ____________________ bikers smell of wee |
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A100man |
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A100man World Chat Champion
Joined: 19 Aug 2013 Karma :
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Hong Kong Phooey |
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Hong Kong Phooey World Chat Champion
Joined: 30 Apr 2016 Karma :
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Robby |
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Robby Dirty Old Man
Joined: 16 May 2002 Karma :
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Posted: 22:50 - 19 Oct 2023 Post subject: |
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The original coil tested out fine (eventually). You also had a replacement coil, which worked until the bike broke down with the same problem.
There is a tendency to think something is bad because it tests out a bit different to what was expected in the manual, but in reality a coil that is well out of spec will still work just fine for ages. So I don't think the coil is the problem.
I don't know how clever the ECU is with its error codes. On analogue circuits I assume it's just measuring voltage and seeing if the voltage is outside of its parameters.
I'm also going to assume it's a really dump circuit. Voltage to the coil is out of spec, throw an error. Ignore incoming voltage, or don't have an error code for that.
Pulling this together into by guess theory. Bike is moving down the road, revs around the middle of the counter. Maximum normal electrical draw - headlight on, tail light on. Charging system can't keep up - could be alternator, could be reg/rec*. Incoming voltage voltage drops too low for the coil to transform it into enough voltage to make a spark in a full cylinder (not the same as 5000rpm with no load). Bike stop.
* Shunt reg/recs have pairs of diodes called shunts. If one of these pairs has failed the reg/rec can still make enough electricity when incoming power is low (at idle) and power demand is low. They fail completely, or just make less electricity than is needed, at higher revs. This is easier to test, it's mostly revs dependent and not load dependent.
Check the charging system. |
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WD Forte |
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WD Forte World Chat Champion
Joined: 17 Jun 2010 Karma :
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jeffyjeff |
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jeffyjeff World Chat Champion
Joined: 02 May 2020 Karma :
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stinkwheel |
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stinkwheel Bovine Proctologist
Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :
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Posted: 08:47 - 20 Oct 2023 Post subject: |
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Is it a normal full DC electrical system on that bike and not one of those odd split lighting/charging systems with positive and negative earth like they use on some small hondas?
One thing that occurrs is you've tested all the upstream parts of the circuit but what are the earths like? Bad earths can cause all manner of weirdness.
A little cheap LED voltmeter wired in might be handy so you/he can keep an eye on what it's doing dynamically? You can get a PCB backed LED voltmeter for well under a fiver. You could even wire it into different circuits, like the coil feed. ____________________ “Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles. |
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WD Forte |
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WD Forte World Chat Champion
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BusterGonads |
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BusterGonads Trackday Trickster
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WD Forte |
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WD Forte World Chat Champion
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MCN |
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MCN Super Spammer
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WD Forte |
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WD Forte World Chat Champion
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