Palestine or Israel?

[Phil.]

Read that a whole bunch of kids were killed yesterday in gaza from an israeli assault. Just one of many stories like it i expect.

But it got me thinking, which (if any) side would you offer your support to? I only ask because the British government has played a pretty active role in the creation of the state of Israel and seems to continually supports the ongoing Zionism.

I am yet to find a good explanation for why the jews needed a home land, Aftermath of the holocaust maybe? Or Christianity trying to fulfill the prophecy?

[Kickstart]

Hi

Neither side. Compromise is required on both parts.

All the best

Keith
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[Itchy]

Neither side , in the old xian path of thought, an eye for an eye makes the world go blind.

And our role isn't THAT big IIRC we just didn't vote and abstained on the UN policy for the creation of the state.

We did however sell them tons of weapons ie if we didn't sell them our cheiftan tanks which were highly superior to that of the soviet Tanks of the time, they may have been squashed.

However if we didn't sell stuff to them others will have , where there is money there is business.
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[Walloper]

[TheDonUK]

I voted for the Palestinians, mostly because they are the underdog.

I am not religous in the slightest, and reject the Zionist claims that because something was perhaps written 2000 years ago they now have any claim to anything.

If i write that TheDon and everyone of his race/family owns london and then bury it, does it become true in 2000 years? if so im going to get writing...

It was the state of Palestine, then the british were granted a League of Nations mandate to govern, they royally botched that up and allowed zionists a foothold and now we have what we have today...

That being said, Israel is obveously not going to disappear, a two state solution is really the only option, the problem is there is so much hate, on the palestinian side due to American-Funded, Israeli killings, settlements and bolldozings, and on the Israeli side because of Suicide bomber/Rocket fears...

I cant see them settling it themselves, a third party needs to devide it up into two acceptable states,

Palestinians need to accept that Israel does and will exist and not be so stubborn,

The Israeli's need to immediately stop building settlements, withdraw many of the current ones (too bad for the folks that settled, they should have realised it wasent going to be the most secure place...) and stop the constant attacks that mostly hurt civilians.

The suicide bombings and "terror" are the desparate attempt of a smashed up people to fight back against an agressor that is funded by America, what else can they do? I dont think Hamas has many tanks/fast-jets or helecopter gunships...

And i know i wouldent just lie down and take it if a group of people came to my country and started expanding with foreign aid...

If i were a palestinian i would be out there with an AK chanting Allah Akbar....

Whereas if i were a Jew i would see many options available to me other than moving to Israel

[D O G]

The state of Israel disgusts me. As far as I can tell it was created for the Jewish 'nation' after WW2 as a kneejerk reaction to the atrocities of the holocaust. Effectively kicking the Palestians from their country.

That is so wrong IMO. Do Christians or Buddhists or any other religion have their own country? I don't think so.

It should never have been created, simply stripping the people of Palestine of their land.

The area has been controlled by many different civilisations over history, but it was not right to create a country like the UN did. If you applied the same logic to the USA (a strong supporter of Israel), then they should hand their country back to the native Americans, similarly with Australia, South Africa, and so on.

The fact that there is a strong Jewish community, with a disproportionately high number of very rich and influential individuals, and their use of the holocaust as leverage has led to the creation of Israel, and the current fucked up situation.

The continuing support and financing of Israel by the Yanks doesn't help matters.

I support the Palestines, they should fight to get their land back. If the Jews want to fight back, then let them, but I know who I'll be shouting for.

[NSR Mick]

[Itchy]

[Itchy]

[TheDonUK]

[Dom]

I'm pleased to see that I'm not the only person who finds the idea of gifting a religion their own country more than a little strange. However there clearly isn't any going back now.

I completely agree with Keith that compromise is the only way any solution can now be found. Something that neither side seem to be particularly interested in.
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Photos and that

[Phil.]

I wish i could believe a compromise would be found, but the very fact that giving Palestinian land to Israel was done by the UN and the massive support Israel gets from the world biggest war mongers i just can't see it over untill Palestine is no more.
https://www.funhostr.com/files/f/files/nab7FZkc.jpg

I believe it was this documentary i watched not so long ago which explains how our country helped and continues to engineer this Zionism;
https://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=_Bo992BOHBU

Makes me want to leave this place when i think about what kind of things my taxes help pay for...

[CaNsA]

learn to get along or......

https://nukeitfromorbit.com/nuke.jpg

[Walloper]

[Mister James]

The problem is less black-and-white than some here (and many elsewhere) would claim.

The Palestinians are not the blameless innocents that many would have them - but neither are they (as a group) the vicious terrorist murderers that others claim. Most of them are simply trying to get by in a poverty-stricken and hostile corner of the globe.

The Israelis are not all murderous religious fanatics bent on exterminating the Arabs within their borders - neither are they the plucky underdogs that some Western observers seem to see.

The 'Arab Street' has a lot more to answer for than many realise - it is Muslim Arab nations whose telegraphed attack on the nascent state of Israel caused the Palestinian Arabs to flee (in gleeful anticipation of the Jews being thrown into the sea) - and the Arab defeat that led to the refugee situation we see today.

It is telling that - for all their sympathy and crocodile tears - the Arab nations are not doing a huge amount to help those in Gaza or in the West Bank; cynics like me would posit that it is of more use to them to have nice external problem to point to, to focus their populations anger on the yukky Jews and not domestic issues.

It has been interesting looking back at my education, and seeing the different ways the Arab-Israeli conflict has been taught. At secondary school I learnt all about the plucky IDF throwing back the evil Arab invaders, while at A level I learnt all about the poor Palestinians being abused by the Israeli overlords. At university, I was told about how the whole bloody mess was also my direct responsibility as a citizen of the capitalist pigdog Western Imperium, etc etc etc.

The simple fact remains that none of us have a perfectly clear understanding of what is happening over there - probably the only thing that I can be sure of is that killing women and children on both sides over a near-worthless piece of land is not what I consider to be a just war.
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[Skudd]

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[colin1]

The Palestinians (Christians and Muslims) were there first.

Israelis started strong arming their way in, buying land, stealing land etc.

As everyone felt sorry for the jews after WWII Israel was created to given them a home, but of course it was someone elses home already.

Obviously Arabs were pretty pissed off about this, and thought they could band together and help their palestinian brothers get their country back.

However Israel gets loads of money from America and is tooled up to the max with the latest Militairy hardware including Nuclear Weapons.

Israel fights off the arabs, and then takes extra territory and takes a huge chunk of extra land. Partly so its easier to defend itself, and partly cos they need more land.

Obviously Arabs are then even more pissed off as not only does Israel have all the land that it was given, its taken some more.

If this country was invaded and we fought back, would we think of ourselves as resistance fighters or terrorists ?

The palestinians are no more terrorists than the French resistance were terrorists for fighting the nazi occupation of France.

However in real life, the world isnt fair, so Palestinians wont get their country back.

When they were allowed to hold elections, they voted in the wrong party, and so had all sorts of trade sanctions imposed on them.

Its not democracy, if you there is hell to pay if you vote for the party you want.

The best that can be hoped for is a ceasefire, or lessening of hostilities.

The other thing is, that even the Israeli government isnt in control of its own citizens who just take land illegally from palestinians and declare it their land and build stuff on it. These are called outposts, while legal ones are called settlements.

Palestinians havnt got a chance of winning but you cant really blame them for wanting to fight the people who take their land and kill them.

Palestinians have low tech weapons so they dont kill many people. Israelis have the best kit available. They have also forgotten the old law of proportionality of an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. So they massively over react and kill far more than they have lost themselves.

The best hope is for Palestinians to admit they cant win and have to compromise on israeli terms and forget about getting their land back. In the same way that Sinn Fein and the IRA eventually put down their arms for power sharing which means top jobs for the main guys, but no real changes other than less violence.
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colin1 is officially faster than god

[CaNsA]

[Nufkamp]

I've had that as wallpaper on my PC for a few months now.
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[Walloper]

I had four of them with bacon and eggthis morning for breakfast.
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[.Chris.]

I've been doing a couple of modules for my degree on Israel/Palestine and Middle East politics and it's fascinating.

Sadly there is going to be a big difference in what's actually just and what will probably happen in the end.

If justice is done then Israel will cease to exist and the Palestinians will go back to their rightful homes. What will actually happen will probably be that the Palestinians will be confined to some tiny bantustan on less than a quarter of their original lands and will recieve a paltry amount of compensation (paid for mostly by the US, not Israel).

[tatters]

[Mister James]

[Itchy]

[mattsprattuk]

i dont care...

im never going to go there.
they should fight their own battles.
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Blue_SV650S wrote: it was a sh1te wheelie, but it proves that he can get it up in 3rd and can do angles. In summery, mattsprattuk is a gobby little sh1tebag, dopehead tw4t, but sadly for all of us, he probably isn't THAT full of sh1te!!
Kickstart wrote: Hi I tend to agree with Matt. All the best Keith