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| Wingchunal |
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Wingchunal
World Chat Champion
Joined: 23 Jun 2002
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 Posted: 19:02 - 27 Jan 2003  Post subject: |
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 i wanna go on a strip so much fun without a roundabout every second.
Zimm was a change of pants needed after the go on mr luckys bike? |
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| Mr Lucky |
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Mr Lucky
Spanner Monkey
Joined: 10 Nov 2002
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| Posted: 19:30 - 27 Jan 2003 Post subject: |
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Well the bikes are so closely matched that a lot can depend on riders and even rider weight!  
Also what is your boss basing the comparison on? All out top speed, roll-ons, 1/4 mileing, the twisties? The two are so equally matched in so many areas that it often comes down to personal preference on looks. I take it that he has an earlier 12R as the last of the first model and all of the newer ones are restricted.
The Twelve is more tunable for less pennies spent with its higher compression motor. It responds fantastically well to just a pipe, PCII and a slight tweak of the ignition sensor (Saki backed them off at the factory, lots of 12 owners change it and advance the ignition). A yoshi pipe, PCII, Super snorkle and advance of the ignition will give 180bhp on a well run in 12R. The ignition qwirk means that the Kwak is easier to tweak in secret and is virtually undetectable and free! It has a better airbox than the Busa but its aeros aren't as good. It also suffers from massive clutch slip at high RPM which the Hayabusa doesn't have to worry about so the first thing to change once the bike starts shoving out big numbers is the clutch.
Toget the same hike in HP from the Hayabusa means spending a bit more wedge on the motor
As long as the Saki is run in well (very important on the earlier models, not so critical on the newer one) it will make an extremely fast land missile
My personal preference would be a black and gold 12R. Pure sex...
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| craigT19 |
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craigT19
Jolly Green Giant
Joined: 09 Feb 2002
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| Posted: 19:39 - 27 Jan 2003 Post subject: |
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lol G vs craig.......nahhh it was Craig Vs very very slipery wet left lane 
i slid in first....and second.....and then got grip in third went in to 4th hit 10k rpm and the rear end went sideways....i shat myself and shut off the power
but evan so...zx-6 vs zx9(race tuned) lol...as if i had a chance 
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Bikes owned :- 2001 nsr125, 1999 zx6r, 2006 yzf-r1, 2009 xmax 250, 2012 yzf-r1, 2015 MT-07
Current bike : - 2016 MT-10
 BCF member pops. sadly missed 1945-2003 |
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| G |
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G
The Voice of Reason
Joined: 02 Feb 2002
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| Posted: 20:01 - 27 Jan 2003 Post subject: |
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Yea.. in a similat fashion I wheel span in first, second and fourth on that ruin... just carried on though ..
On that track grip not power was the msot impiortant issue, so a 400 might have actually done better, because you wouldn't ahve so much of a problem controlling the power.
So if anything the six was probably a better bet, especially because it was taller geared than my higher powered 9. |
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| craigT19 |
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craigT19
Jolly Green Giant
Joined: 09 Feb 2002
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| Posted: 20:04 - 27 Jan 2003 Post subject: |
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yeah looking at our times...i never actually managed to go faster than Viper did at the bdb......my best was a 13.5 at 118mph aginst kevo
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Bikes owned :- 2001 nsr125, 1999 zx6r, 2006 yzf-r1, 2009 xmax 250, 2012 yzf-r1, 2015 MT-07
Current bike : - 2016 MT-10
BCF member pops. sadly missed 1945-2003 |
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| G |
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G
The Voice of Reason
Joined: 02 Feb 2002
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| TJ NSR |
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TJ NSR
World Chat Champion
Joined: 03 Feb 2002
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| Posted: 20:30 - 28 Jan 2003 Post subject: |
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lucky:
zx12s with yoshi and power commander - if not set up properly the run shite...
best is with a full acrapovic and cheange the rear sprocket!!
my boss blew his up with only 2500miles on the clock!!! 
clutches are shite on them... must agree gold and blk is the nicest!!! |
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| Mr Lucky |
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Mr Lucky
Spanner Monkey
Joined: 10 Nov 2002
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| Posted: 23:51 - 28 Jan 2003 Post subject: |
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| TJ NSR wrote: | lucky:
zx12s with yoshi and power commander - if not set up properly the run shite...
best is with a full acrapovic and cheange the rear sprocket!!
my boss blew his up with only 2500miles on the clock!!!
clutches are shite on them... must agree gold and blk is the nicest!!! |
Of course they run shite if they aren't set up properly with a PC! You got to taylor the map to suit your bike. Later model PC control not only fuel maps but ignition mapping as well so it is essential to not fuck up. Hayabusas are the same, in fact any fuely with a PCmndr will run shite if it doesn't have the right map, thats the whole point old chap. And every bike is ever so slightly different.
Akro's don't let the 12 release as much top end power compared to the Yosh but the give a tad more midrange. If you are looking for top end from a 12 then it is a Yosh, PCIII and a Big Ugly Snorky on the front. Your boss will be due 3 about 3 more hp at the top end of the rev range if he switches to Yoshi. Not much but if pure top end is where it is at for him then every little helps. Everyone I know who runs 12's at high speed events runs Yoshi's, not Akropovic (that is the Hayabusa weapon of choice )
Drop a tooth or two on either the Hayabusa or the 12 as you say. The Busa is geared for 196 on standard gearing, no more. But unless you are breathing heavily in the motor then it isn't worth changing the Busa gearing. The twelve has a much more efficient airbox which means the 12 really comes on song at high mph. The Busa airbox is something of a hinderance if it isn't sealed properly and many Busa owners do one of two mods to the Airbox, involving cutting away set amounts of plastic from inside the box itself to allow the box to flow better (it is very restrictive. If you saw inside a standard Busa airbox you would be shocked!) Kawasaki are streets ahead of Suzuki when it comes to designing ram air systems for production bikes. It has been estimated that the ram-air effect of the 12 flat out is helping the 12 produce over 15hp more than you would see on the dyno. Seeing as the 12 is the most powerful production motorcycle from Japan to date, you can see where the 12 gets its high top speed from, despite having barn door aeros (compared to the Busa that is, it is still quite slippery when compared to other bikes). Ever wondered why the 12 has those funny little wings on the fairing? Remove them and run at high speed and you will quickly find out.
What did your boss blow on the 12? I know of only one twelve letting go (standard that wasn't the clutch) and that was an anomily that Saki UK sorted with very little fuss. The twelve goes through a major change in hp almost exactly at the 5k miles mark. I know of at least two tuners who say you can literally see the change take place in front of your eyes on the dyno. Many 12 owners say they feel a major change in the way the 12 motor delivers at within a few hundred miles eaither side of the 5k mark. It becomes a different bike. This is why the 12 did so badly in original tests against the Rhino but seems to fare better in later head to heads, pulling clearly ahead at about 140 onwards. Shown again in 1/4 mile times where both bikes have run similar times (Busa usually faster by a notch) but the 12 is going through with terminal speed differences of as much a 3-5 mph (Believe me that is a big difference and shows where the 12 is just starting to fill its lungs and gather up its skirts).
It is so important to run the 12 in with kidd gloves though. Saki for some strange reason chose to give the first incarnation cast instead of forged pistons and very tight tolerances seemingly.
The twelve is also becoming the weapon of choice on the strip in the UK and its credentials are becoming well established thanks to people like Lorcan and Keith Parnell, Martyn Greathead and James Spiers.
But lets just reiterate that both bikes are very close and it really does depend under what circumstances they are being compared and what the individual riders are like. A standard Busa against a standard 12 will be much better in many areas of performance thanks to its lasier, higher torque motor yet the 12, kept on the boil at the higher end of the speed spectrum, can pull ahead of the Busa by a good few bike lengths in a straight line race.
I find that the Busa is easier to run low 1/4 on straight out of the box. It is lower and launches better, despite the back torque limiter clutch. The 12 sits higher and is more prone to howking a wheel so launches can be hard.
And who's idea was that cable clutch? Talk about giving a bike an Achilles Heel!
Hopefully your boss still has the 12 and hopefully he has been a bit kinder to it since he had it rebuilt if it hasn't reached 5k. Tell him to get it to Elvington (welcome to my Church) later in the year and meet with like minded 12 and Busa owners. Then he can really find out what speeds his 12 is capable of.
Or if he wants tell hiim I can give him info to an invite only event I am attending at RAF Woodbridge later this year where he can put his 12 against the best/fastest bikes in Europe. No 1/4 mile, just flat out top end speed (I love it)... 
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| Stew |
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Stew
If it's good enough for top race teams...
Joined: 03 Feb 2002
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| Posted: 23:57 - 28 Jan 2003 Post subject: |
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| Mr Lucky |
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Mr Lucky
Spanner Monkey
Joined: 10 Nov 2002
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| Posted: 00:09 - 29 Jan 2003 Post subject: |
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Well bring your bike to Elvington. You can run flat out for over 1.5 miles and it is great fun. Anyone can run subject to passing scrutineering (not hard at all) and you can even run two-up! No licence required.
Fab day it is. Everything from stripped down scooters to Turbocharged HP monsters and all bikes in between.
I have seen some great needle matches develope between friends when they come back from the timing van waving flyer slips! 
Usually they are running the same model of bike. It goes something like this.
*NSR125 pulls up and grinning loon leaps from the bike waving a timing slip and shouting *
"Yaaaay! I did 101.94mph, BEAT THAT FOOL!"
"BASTARD! Right thats it, I'm tucking my mirrors in!"
*2 minutes later Friend 2 comes ring-a-dinging back waving timing slip giving it a very loud football chant of*
"ONE OH THREE, ONE OH THREE, ONE OH ONE OH ONE OH THREE!"
"Right you showy twat! I am lying flat on the tank for this next one" Says Friend 1.
And so it goes on. These friendly grudges and wind ups get traded for months in pub arguements and discussions and joshings until the next Elvington rolls around and then we find that the two chaps (or chapesses) have returned with a few sly tweeks and an expensive spannie fitted to their respective steeds.
Trust me, it is just the best fun on any bike.
Go with friends and just have a real blast...
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| PsychoHippy |
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PsychoHippy
Jammy Git
Joined: 02 Jul 2002
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| Posted: 13:19 - 01 Feb 2003 Post subject: |
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You'll have to let us all know when the next one is, then we can have a Forum trip there |
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 21 years, 88 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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