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Shoplifting get you prison, GBH gets you a slap on the wrist

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colin1
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PostPosted: 01:19 - 22 Mar 2008    Post subject: Shoplifting get you prison, GBH gets you a slap on the wrist Reply with quote

I've just been in the pub with some guys from college days. One of whom is a copper, and one who is in the CPS.

I was shocked to discover that shoplifting can get you 7 days in prison, but GBH like breaking someones jaw, is just a slap on the wrist community service and asking the guy not to do it again.

I think this is all wrong.

Its a scandal etc.

My copper friend also said a few things about hells angels, coke dealing, and pub ownership that surprised me.

My copper friend was seriously assaulted when trying to apprehend a major career criminal, and the judge said to the guy when he was convicted by a jury that although he should be sent to prison, that wasnt gonna happen.

Which is code for saying the government has told me I cant send certain offenders to prison.

Its a disgrace, and my CPS mate is so pissed off with the situation generally he is thinking of changing jobs.

This country eh.
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kitty kat
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PostPosted: 10:12 - 22 Mar 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got assaulted by a woman last year, she got shouted at and I got £50 compo, for a broken nose.
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Finglonga
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PostPosted: 16:43 - 22 Mar 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

CPS = Criminal Protection Service! Thumbs Down
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 18:15 - 22 Mar 2008    Post subject: Re: Shoplifting get you prison, GBH gets you a slap on the w Reply with quote

colin1 wrote:
I was shocked to discover that shoplifting can get you 7 days in prison, but GBH like breaking someones jaw, is just a slap on the wrist community service and asking the guy not to do it again.


I think that statement is immensely hypocritical in the context of this forum.

How many of you have said you would break someones jaw if you caught them nicking your bike?

How many of you have said that petty thievery is OK?

How many of you would expect someone to go to jail if they were a repeat shoplifter, and they were nicking crash helmets or leathers or something?

Its all about context, and the trouble with this is we have no context for either offense.

I'd be upset if I caught someone stealing my bike or burgling my house and I got chucked in jail for knocking them to the ground. Karma
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colin1
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PostPosted: 19:00 - 22 Mar 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

To me, crime to an individual which may cause distress is worse than crime to a company.

To me petty vandalism is worse than shoplifting, let alone assault.

My friend who is a policeman, and my friend who is in the cps both agreed, but its government who set the rules. They like it less than me as they have to see it every day.

There are a shortage of prison places, I accept that, but i dont accept that a sholifter should be sent to prison for a few days, when you could put a violent criminal in prison instead.

Im not talking about specific general offenses, its policy to send persistent shoplifters to prison for a few days, and to give community service for violent criminals.

Another interesting thing that came up was about the use of tazers. My policeman friend said they are nasty vicious things and he has seen them in use. He wouldnt want to carry one as each time one is used, the officer is suspended pending an investigation. I find that a bit reassuring.
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wikiwiki
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PostPosted: 20:35 - 22 Mar 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm surprised you didn't know the hell's angels are involved in naughties, I thought it was common knowledge.

How else are they supposed to afford all those tubes of autosol to keep their chrome looking nice?
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SoND
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PostPosted: 00:33 - 23 Mar 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keep the real criminals on the street who don't care if they get locked away for a while and come down heavily on decent citizens who get caught up with ill thought out laws and a terrible justice system. They're doing this to get the green light for tougher policing with less evidence.

Police Police State on the way Police
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Skudd
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PostPosted: 00:41 - 23 Mar 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

colin1 wrote:
To me, crime to an individual which may cause distress is worse than crime to a company.

To me petty vandalism is worse than shoplifting, let alone assault.

.


You obviously have never delt with shoplifters. they don't just nick pens or the odd bar of chocolate. Most shoplifters have done some 40-50 offences before getting caught. The average value of items taken is about £150. the violence and intimidation used to commit this type of crime is way beyond what most people would ever dram of. They add about £250 to your shopping bill every year. You are the victim in these crimes.
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colin1
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PostPosted: 06:29 - 23 Mar 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

wikiwiki wrote:
I'm surprised you didn't know the hell's angels are involved in naughties, I thought it was common knowledge.

How else are they supposed to afford all those tubes of autosol to keep their chrome looking nice?


to be honest i thought they had had their day, and were part of history

but apparently they shift a lot of coke through pubs they own, selling £70,000 a night in a small town near me

allegedly

the funny thing is the boss is related to a guy i used to work with, and when he had mentioned this guy at the time i just thought of the hells angels as a patch club rather than a criminal organisation with mafia proportions.

but now i know different, or at least thats what I've been told anyway.

bike meets arent gonna seem the same again Smile

apparently the the guy who got shot after bulldog bash, was shot by the outlaws of stoke, and the hells angels got revenge on them at birmingham airport when the outlaws had come back from holiday and so wouldnt have any weapons.

allegedly

maybe i shdnt post this stuff, but its probably common knowledge to anyone who is into this stuff anyway.

anyway my main point was that violent crimes against individuals should be treated more seriously than nicking stuff from tescos
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colin1
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PostPosted: 06:37 - 23 Mar 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skudd wrote:
colin1 wrote:
To me, crime to an individual which may cause distress is worse than crime to a company.

To me petty vandalism is worse than shoplifting, let alone assault.

.


You obviously have never delt with shoplifters. they don't just nick pens or the odd bar of chocolate. Most shoplifters have done some 40-50 offences before getting caught. The average value of items taken is about £150. the violence and intimidation used to commit this type of crime is way beyond what most people would ever dram of. They add about £250 to your shopping bill every year. You are the victim in these crimes.


i would have thought it would be more like 400- 500 offenses before getting caught, but i get your point.

Id still prefer the violent people to go to prison though.
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thegubner
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PostPosted: 11:39 - 23 Mar 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rubbish.


So a copper says that some angels sell 70 grands worth of coke in a NIGHT! and you believe it?

Could it not have something to do with propaganda?


70 grand a night in coke is not sold in gram bags to everyday people, IF that quantity is being sold its to gangsters with plenty of cash to spare, so in all probability IF it is happening it wont concern regular people frequenting the pub.
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Shay HTFC
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PostPosted: 13:40 - 23 Mar 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

SoND wrote:
Keep the real criminals on the street who don't care if they get locked away for a while and come down heavily on decent citizens who get caught up with ill thought out laws and a terrible justice system. They're doing this to get the green light for tougher policing with less evidence.

Police Police State on the way Police


I don't know what you mean by this?

Surely the 'decent citizens' are more likely to be caught up in an act of GBH (i.e. punching someone who tried to steal from them, threatened them or whatever) than stealing from a shop.

I don't find myself in a position where I steal from a shop innocently, but I can well imagine situations where a decent person lashes out for some reason or another.
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colin1
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PostPosted: 20:53 - 23 Mar 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

the_guvnor_1_uk wrote:
Rubbish.


So a copper says that some angels sell 70 grands worth of coke in a NIGHT! and you believe it?

Could it not have something to do with propaganda?


70 grand a night in coke is not sold in gram bags to everyday people, IF that quantity is being sold its to gangsters with plenty of cash to spare, so in all probability IF it is happening it wont concern regular people frequenting the pub.


no the idea is they own several pubs in a town centre, and anyone buying coke for their night out, buys it from dealers in these pubs.

They dont make much money selling alcohol, but they do selling the coke.

If doorstaff find anyone with coke, they have to prove they bought it on the premises, or pay a fine. If they dont want to pay the fine they get beaten up.

So the £70,000 a night is not one deal, its lots of people buying for their night out.

But you are right I dont know if its true. I think its quite possible though.

Apparently they started off with one pub, and they have ended up buying up most of the pubs in the town centre.
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hellkat
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PostPosted: 23:03 - 23 Mar 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

You know, Col ... sometimes I read your posts, and I think "Everyone on this forum is always havin' a go at Col, but he does have an opinion, and sometimes he really does have interesting things to say."

And then I read things like [almost everything posted above] ... and I understand why they criticise and berate you so.
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colin1
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PostPosted: 00:00 - 24 Mar 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

oh so u think shoplifters should go to prison while thugs shouldnt ?

Fair enough. Maybe I should have made this a poll.

I didnt mention anything about prison sentences for people who work in houses of ill-repute.

I dont think there is anything wrong with anything I have said in this thread and I'm mystified as to how anyone could have a problem with anything I have said in this thread.

Ok maybe you may have more knowledge of dodgy dealings so the rumours about the pubs in my local area may seem either unlikely or obvious to you, but still.
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hellkat
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PostPosted: 01:36 - 24 Mar 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
oh so u think shoplifters should go to prison while thugs shouldnt

Colin, don't EVER put words in my mouth.

When I choose to express my opinion about any subject, everybody on this forum knows that I am capable of doing so quite clearly.

Never presume to know what I will say. Unless you have heard me say it, or read me write it.

I have not expressed an opinion on ANY of the subject/s suggested in any of the posts this thread:
I believe I have merely expressed an opinion about my under-estimation of your character.

Its very presumptuous and wrong of you to assume that I have any idea about what you describe as "dodgy dealings", in your area, or anywhere else. It comes close to defamation of my character.

I opened this thread to read your opinion on the injustice of a person being given a tougher sentence for a small law-related incident, than for a particular other more serious incident (shoplifting vs GBH) ... ended up reading a load of other seemingly unrelated stuff which is, by your own admittance, allegation and bar-room gossip.
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colin1
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PostPosted: 04:48 - 24 Mar 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

ah ok, so its the gossip that u dont like

you didnt really say what u didnt like so i had to guess

i know women expect blokes to be mind readers but as we arent great at this, vagueness is best avoided as we might get the wrong idea

anyway the gossip was just a side issue, but other people seemd to want to talk about that

main thing is, it seems daft that we are sending sholifters to prison for a few days and letting violent thugs off with community service
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colin1
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PostPosted: 05:06 - 24 Mar 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

hellkat wrote:

Its very presumptuous and wrong of you to assume that I have any idea about what you describe as "dodgy dealings", in your area, or anywhere else. It comes close to defamation of my character.



It does not come close to defamation of your character. You forget what things you have posted about in the past.

I have not commented on your character just said that you might have knowledge about things that I dont, even if you have cast aspersions on my character for some vague mysterious reason.

I dont really see what bothers you about what I've said because you havnt said.

Why not say what it is that you dont like about what I have said rather than making remarks about me ?
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colin1
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PostPosted: 05:22 - 24 Mar 2008    Post subject: Re: Shoplifting get you prison, GBH gets you a slap on the w Reply with quote

MarJay wrote:
colin1 wrote:
I was shocked to discover that shoplifting can get you 7 days in prison, but GBH like breaking someones jaw, is just a slap on the wrist community service and asking the guy not to do it again.


I think that statement is immensely hypocritical in the context of this forum.



Its not hypocritical. Even if I claimed to beat people up on a regular basis and steal things on a regular basis, I could still think I deserved harsher punishment for hitting people that for stealing things.

But I dont do either.

'Immensely Hypocritical in the context of the forum' is a nonsense phrase. My views arent the same as other peoples on this forum.

Obviously the kind of assaults Im thinking about are not the particular case u decided to pick of someone taking retribution for stealing a bike.

I cant really imagine you attempting to tackle a bike theif, but if you managed to hurt him without getting hurt, id be impressed. It may happen sometimes, but not many victims get prosecuted for attacking those who have attacked them or their property.

Those few cases are dwarfed by the number of more usual assaults involving drunk thugs looking for a fight, and violent robberies.
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bazza
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PostPosted: 10:51 - 24 Mar 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

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craigie b
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PostPosted: 14:18 - 24 Mar 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

This thread is a waste of internet.
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Moonie
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PostPosted: 15:17 - 24 Mar 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

kitty kat wrote:
I got assaulted by a woman last year, she got shouted at and I got £50 compo, for a broken nose.



I wouldn't complain if I were you, I broke my nose bmxing twice last year, and the f*cking bike didn't give me a penny!

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hellkat
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PostPosted: 01:25 - 25 Mar 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Dragonfly
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PostPosted: 13:40 - 25 Mar 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah that is a bit shit. But look at it this way, if you own a shop and you catch a shop lifter you can beat the shit out of him before he goes to jail and get a slap on the wrist Wink Does this work when you catch a burgeler in your house? leave him a bloody mess and get another slap on the wrist?

Not making a joke of it just turning it around a bit.
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Born2bVile
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PostPosted: 02:02 - 28 Mar 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

colin1 wrote:
wikiwiki wrote:
I'm surprised you didn't know the hell's angels are involved in naughties, I thought it was common knowledge.

How else are they supposed to afford all those tubes of autosol to keep their chrome looking nice?


to be honest i thought they had had their day, and were part of history

but apparently they shift a lot of coke through pubs they own, selling £70,000 a night in a small town near me

allegedly


On a public internet forum, you are accusing a group of recognisable individuals of a criminal offence, with no proof apart from heresay.

'Allegedly' is no longer valid when used in this context.

Just hope the solicitors get to you first.....
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