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| TheDonUK |
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TheDonUK
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Joined: 20 Feb 2006
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 Posted: 19:24 - 17 Apr 2008  Post subject: eBay Windfall - Moral/Legal Opinions |
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Ok as some of you may have read i recently got a payout from my insurers for a longstanding claim, i decided to spend some of my money on a set of R+G Crash bungs and a pair of Goodridge braided hoses for the front of my Hornet, I ordered the bungs from an ebay shop, and the goodridge lines from another online shop, paid for both with paypal. This was on early in the week
This morning i come downstairs after a heavy night out and find someone has signed for my bungs, no problems, the right ones etc, then also on the floor is a "We missed you note" from a known parcel company, so i arrange to pick up what im expecting to be my goodridge hoses at 6 today, Went down there earlier, the guy has looked around for ages and then come out with this MAHOOSIVE box, so i have signed for it, realised i wasent getting that on the bike, open it up to take out whatevers in there, inside i have been sent:
Crash protectors for a VFR800
2x Crash protectors for a ER6-F
2x Tail tidy's for 08 GSXR 600/750's
and One tail tidy for a Fazer 600
Total goods worth 290 quid!!!
Im thinking what the fuck, so like a moron i go back in and say mate this isnt what i ordered, he just turns round and says "well it has your name on the box so just take it"... Fair enough dont need to tell me twice.
Now i think what has happened is this shipment was destined for a dealer (who i wont mention) but they (the shop i brought it from) have put my name and address sticker on the box as a mistake...
So im sitting here with these items, anyone want to have a crack at where i stand legally?, my housemate reckons it was their mistake, it is their job to try and contact me to get them back. Surely i can just say "No idea what you are talking about, i got my items and nothing else" and claim what i signed for was my bungs, which i have received...
If i just sell this stuff and deny all knowledge what can they do?, I mean i could really use this money and have no moral qualms about it, but maybe some other points of view would be a good idea?
So with this recent luck im now off to my first cardroom and entering a 20 quid No'Limit tournament,  |
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G
The Voice of Reason
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| spikenipple |
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spikenipple
Crazy Courier
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Posted: 19:31 - 17 Apr 2008  Post subject: |
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Isn't the first thought to strike you 'I should get in contact with the dealer and sort this out with them' ?
If it's not going to cost you anything to correct the mistake (and it won't) then don't hesitate to give them their property back 
Sure it's their mistake, but it shouldn't cost them £200. Who cares where you stand legally? Do the right thing and give the items back!
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C50 > GN250 > XJ600 > SV650S K7 > 2001 RSV Mille R > MT-09, XR400R > 2005 Fireblade (trackbike) + 2022 MT-09 + ZXR400 race bike |
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| iooi |
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iooi
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| Posted: 19:59 - 17 Apr 2008 Post subject: |
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Well they will know who has got the goods. They could just bill your paypal account to get the cash.
Sort of like well you have the goods so we will have the cash. Not much you could do then.
Be honest and contact them about the error. Might find that you come out of it nicely.
Remember they still owe you the brake lines.
Far to many dishonest people in the world as it is, so buck the trend and be honest.
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Just because my bike was A DIVVY, does not mean i am...... |
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Quote Me Happy
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| MattEMulsion |
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MattEMulsion
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| Posted: 20:16 - 17 Apr 2008 Post subject: |
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Interesting moral dilemma you have there. The things that immediately strike me is that firstly they will work out where their property is, I guess maybe you have all that gear and the other dealer has received a set of brake lines. Secondly I'm not sure that you have any legal right/claim to something sent to you by mistake and thirdly, do you really want £290 (only worth that potentially remember) of stuff that you don't really need - would you rather not just have the brake lines instead? The hassle that you would have to go to in order to sell that stuff on is sizable and you would still have to pod out again for some other brake lines.
I think if it was me I would contact the seller sooner rather than later and do the right thing.
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| Fisty |
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Fisty
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| hmmmnz |
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hmmmnz
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| Posted: 21:09 - 17 Apr 2008 Post subject: |
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| ZRX61 |
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ZRX61
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| McGee |
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McGee
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| Pete. |
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Pete.
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| Posted: 21:41 - 17 Apr 2008 Post subject: |
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If they made a simple switch on the labels then the place that was supposed to get that stuff will have your order. When they check who that order was destined for they will know where their missing goods are.
I've never had goods sent to me to that kind of value - I was sent a new set of cases for a N73 from an eBay trader and I sent them straight back.
No idea on your legal position, though I suspect that since you know the stuff wasn't meant for you if you keep them that might be viewed as theft.
Morally - well you know what the right thing to do is 
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132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good  |
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G
The Voice of Reason
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| doggone |
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doggone
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| veeeffarr |
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veeeffarr
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| Posted: 22:51 - 17 Apr 2008 Post subject: |
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If you keep them i know someone who'll have the VFR bungs |
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| TheDonUK |
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TheDonUK
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| Posted: 23:12 - 17 Apr 2008 Post subject: |
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Interesting to see everyones POV, to clarify,
The brakelines were ordered from another company completely, i only mentioned them because when i went to pick this stuff up, thats what i thought i was collecting, I received my Bungs from this company in question in a sepirate order which i got this morning and a housemate signed for, They have just sent me a large box with the stuff i listed in as a sepirate shipment. As if they had two sepirate orders and just stuck a sticker with my name on both...
Also it was ordered by a BIG dealer from quite a large company so i dont think i would be bankrupting a small trader...
| Quote: | Well they will know who has got the goods. They could just bill your paypal account to get the cash.
Sort of like well you have the goods so we will have the cash. Not much you could do then. |
I dont believe they can do that, I have paid for and received my item, they have sent me this without my request and as such surely i have made no contract formally or informally to buy these items...
| Quote: | Isn't the first thought to strike you 'I should get in contact with the dealer and sort this out with them' ? |
Honestly, No, I am pretty poor at the moment and 290 quid is alot to me, the shop in question does alot of business, so morally i feel i will benefit more than they will loose if that makes sense...
| Quote: | Get the stuff listed on ebay, if someone is dumb enough to lable it wrong they deserve to lose it. |
Im relutant to put it on ebay straight away, would be pretty obveous to the seller....
I would like to be in a finantial position to "buck the trend" but honestly when this much money lands in your lap and money is an issue... meh, Ill sleep on it... |
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| Tarmacsurfer |
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Tarmacsurfer
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| TheDonUK |
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TheDonUK
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| Adam80UK |
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Adam80UK
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| Posted: 01:35 - 18 Apr 2008 Post subject: |
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Too many immoral thieving bastards in this country as it is.
Don't stoop to their level, not for a second. Money may be tight, but don't sell out for the price of 5 xbox games!
You may not be Buster Edwards, but you can't speak with the same moral authority on the next 'some chav stole my bike' thread. Of course it's not in the same ball park... but it is the same sport.
...If anything comes through for a 675, pm me... shhh
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Current: '07 Suzuki SV1000 & '07 Honda SH300i (again).
Previously owned: '08 Yamaha R1, '10 Kawasaki Z1000, '07 Honda SH300i, '04 Suzuki SV1000S, '11 Honda CB1000R, '09 Kawasaki ZX-10R, '08 Aprilia Tuono 1000R, '07 Triumph Daytona 675, '95 Honda CBR600F. |
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| Tarmacsurfer |
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Tarmacsurfer
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| M1ghtyDUck |
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M1ghtyDUck
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Posted: 02:52 - 18 Apr 2008  Post subject: |
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| Tarmacsurfer wrote: | | TheDonUK wrote: | however living where i do and on the means i have availble to me you learn very early on to grab the few bones life throws your way with both hands and keep on running... |
I may be misreading that, but you seem to be assuming that if someone is better off then they're more likely to "do the right thing"? That's my basic point, fuck financial implications. This isn't aimed at you particularly, but to me it's a black and white thing. No justification about small business or big business, or how little money it actually is and how much these places lose anyway, it's binary.
Not going to go into a life history as this isn't the place, but I've been so broke I've been living in a sleeping bag and I've been earning well over a grand a week at times. Either end of those spectrums it still holds though, is an action right or wrong? As soon as you start justifying exceptions then there is no real moral framework. |
You should to read a book (it's actually a play, written for television, but as a book.. anyway) called Professional Foul by Tom Stoppard. In it he makes a really good argument about the flexibility of moral standpoints. In the most basic of basics it's stuff like "shooting a man is wrong" but "shooting a man who is about to kill 2 children is right." He talks about a point where your progress along one line of moral action and justification jumps you onto the adverse line. In other words it is the point that, as dictated by circumstances, an action that was morally wrong becomes one that is morally right. Or vice versa.
It's a very interesting book. In any case, I brought it up to contest your point about there being no moral framework once you start justifying exceptions. On the contrary, I think being able to justify exceptions, and think not of moral "principles" which are unshiftable, but of moral "interests" which are, is part of what makes us human, if you'll forgive the cliche.
As horrible as it is to use an example like this, I'd point you to i-robot. Will Smith's character and a girl - a young child - are trapped in cars underwater. A robot dives in to save them, and using his moral "principle" (your unshiftable moral framework) he saves will smith because he has more chance of surviving. Any human, Will Smith claims, would have tried to save the girl, even if there was less chance of her surviving, because of their ability to justify exceptions and act on a moral "interest."
Totally unrelated to that, my opinion here is to take the stuff and run. |
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| TheDonUK |
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TheDonUK
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Posted: 02:57 - 18 Apr 2008  Post subject: |
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| Tarmacsurfer wrote: |
I may be misreading that, but you seem to be assuming that if someone is better off then they're more likely to "do the right thing"? |
Perhaps not more likely but it eliminates the NEED to hold onto the items which fall into ones possesion, and makes the decision a damn sight easier. If i was well off i would have been on the phone to the company without posting this thread at all. If i was well off why bother going through the hassel of shifting pretty specific bike parts when you dont need the money... To me this is a decision of nescecity not morals
| Quote: |
Either end of those spectrums it still holds though, is an action right or wrong? As soon as you start justifying exceptions then there is no real moral framework. |
There is always room for justification, Life is not black and white nor do i see it as such, for me its very much shades of gray. If a pre-requisite of a sturdy moral framework is seeing things in binary then i fail miserably... I mean its "Wrong" to kill, most people accept that, but if you do it with a uniform on you get a medal, where does that fit into being either "right" or "wrong", its far too subjective (Thinks of donny darko and the teacher with the belief everything is either one of two things, love or hate...
Plus this isnt strictly an "action" its inaction on my part to reverse a favourable outcome for myself. Your right i am justifying it to myself here...
So lets say i do the "right" thing ring them up say i got the wrong consignment, obveously they would have to provide a courier to collect at their expense, but even then, i might get, what?, a "Thank you" over the phone? To me the gratitude of an employee or accountant at some random business of which i will likely never deal with again is far less important than a months rent covered, i would like to be able to live in a world of ideals and morals but i obveously dont have the high level of moral fortitude you do...
I think what i'll do is just leave this stuff where it is for now, get all my exams finished and out the way, if they dont contact me in say a month im assuming ownership and selling it... |
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| Tarmacsurfer |
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Tarmacsurfer
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| Posted: 03:18 - 18 Apr 2008 Post subject: |
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I think I know the Stoppard book, read it a fair few years back. Seem to remember a lot of football references 
TheDonUK, you do live in a world of ideals and morals in exactly the same way the rest of us do. Being part of society dictates that you must by definition either acknowledge the general mores of the surrounding masses or find a way of subverting them and not getting caught, in this respect I would define morals as a necessity. FYI, I don't claim to have moral fortitude. I just happen to believe in certain things and abide by them, does it make me a better man? Probably not, many would just say a stupid one.
Sadly though, in my opinion at least, the prevailing attitude tends to be to take whatever one can get and the devil take the hindmost (throwing a couple of cliches back for good measure). As far as I'm concerned it's detrimental to us all in the same way littering is. "But everyone does it" becomes a mantra of sorts and what would once have been frowned on becomes more and more common place. I see many (not all, but many) of the arguments for allowing "wiggle room" in morals as equally harmful. |
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| ZRX61 |
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ZRX61
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chris-red
Have you considered a TDM?
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 18 years, 86 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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... however, I'm guessing that the worst thing that would happen if you kept hold of it was that they would hassle you about it - and if they didn't, I can't see any serious trouble coming from it.
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