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| SoND |
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SoND
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 Posted: 19:14 - 29 Apr 2008  Post subject: Gordon Brown to make Cannabis Class B |
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Gordon Brown is going to make Cannabis a class B drug AGAINST the advise of his experts because he knows better. These are the actions of a DICTATOR. We are living under a dictatorship and nothing is being done about it, he is a public servant and has no more rights than anyone else.
What's so bad about it being class b?
Whenever it goes to class b the maximum sentence for posession will go up to 5 years from 2 years and for dealing will still get you 14 years in prison. For a plant.
Right now there are very few people being put into prison for having cannabis but that's only because the prisons are already too full but whenever the new titan super jails get finished people will be getting thrown in left, right and centre. There'll be none of this crap with people only serving half their sentence either, everyone is crying out about the ridiculous setences a lot of the proper criminals are recieving so the obvious thing to do will be to lock everyone up for longer when they have the space.
Unfortunately innocent drug users will not be immune to this and they will be relentless in prosecuting people when they get the chance.
Changing to class b serves no other purpose than to make cannabis more illegal that it already is and to give police more power and authority to search and prosecute innocent citizens.
| Gordon Brown wrote: | "I have always been worried about cannabis, with this new skunk, this more lethal part of cannabis," he told GMTV.
"I don't think that the previous studies took into account that so much of the cannabis on the streets is now of a lethal quality and we really have got to send out a message to young people - this is not acceptable." |
This man clearly does not know what he is talking about and has absolutely no regard for the wellbeing of his citizens.
He says "this new skunk", this is wrong for two reasons.
- By saying skunk he basically means any type of herbal cannabis (grass, the green stuff, not hash) and is saying it is all specially grown and highly potent. It's not, actual skunk is just one of the many different strains of cannabis that you can get and the word skunk is just being used as a buzzword.
- He is saying cannabis has suddenly got stronger in the past couple of years, it hasn't. There have always been very strong strains of cannabis about it's just that people in the UK are used to smoking shite quality stuff.
"lethal part of cannabis", it's not lethal and has never killed anyone.
| Quote: | much of the cannabis on the streets is now of a lethal quality and we really have got to send out a message to young people - this is not acceptable." |
He's right here, most of the cannabis on the streets is actually lethal and very dangerous but it has nothing to do with the cannabis itself, it is heavily contaminated with lots of dangerous things and this is a very serious health concern. The ONLY reason this is happening is because it is illegal. The entire market has been left to criminals with no other interest than profit.
Keeping it illegal is insane and planning on cracking down harder is even worse. Thousands of people have been at the mercy of these ruthless bastards for years and I'm sick of being demonised over a plant that millions of people smoke worldwide.
Trying to change people's behaviour by force is uncalled for and it is evil dictators that are forcing these laws onto us.
Last edited by SoND on 22:08 - 29 Apr 2008; edited 1 time in total |
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| Ste |
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Ste
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| Posted: 19:39 - 29 Apr 2008 Post subject: |
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There has been no announcement about the reclassification yet. He's previously said how he would be changing it back to class B, however he's been stumbling with it lately. There is nothing yet to say that it's definitely going to change to class B.
On Monday he received the report from the ACMD (Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs), it's expected that he won't formally make an announcement until after 1st May.
If he changes it to class B then he's likely to face legal challenges over it that'd be heard in the High Court, along with the fact ignoring the ACMD's report could trigger resignations from the committee.
The fact it isn't any stronger than in years gone by, it's simply that the methods of growing it have improved massively.
The real health risks of cannabis are those that are created by the prohibition. By creating the black market for cannabis, it's put entirely into the hands of criminals. The adulterated cannabis that is common is only around because of greedy dealers adding substances to it to increase the weight and so increase their profits. Sand, glass, snow spray, bleach, lead, silicon gel, asbestos, the list of stuff added to cannabis goes on and on.
You say there are very few people being put into prison for having cannabis, that's not the case. Do some looking on google news for cannabis and you'll find a number of articles of people being locked away for cannabis offences. Yet there's no consistency across the country, being caught with a KG can mean a community sentence is some areas yet in others you can end up in prison over a couple of ounces.
Funny thing is that skunk isn't the strongest stuff by any means, yet the press are all over it cos it's the latest buzz word. |
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| Skudd |
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Skudd
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pits
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| Itchy |
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Itchy
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| Posted: 08:11 - 30 Apr 2008 Post subject: |
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| pitslayer wrote: | why not semi legalise all drugs? think about it, if they legalised all drugs, and taxed the users then they could decrease petrol prices, and gain there revenue from that. and the only place you are allowed to do these drugs are at, specific goverment drug houses, where everything is sterile and nothing can go to far wrong.
gordon brown needs to get of his soap box |
prohibition doesn't work but when you start to introduce tax to these sorts of things you STILL get the black market, think about booze and ciggies, thus you can't really tax it too heavily.
But like cigs / alcohol it probably would pay for itself ie generate more tax than medical treatment needed (hypothetical), perhaps a genetically modified version should be made with all of the 'good' bits but none of the 'bad' things. (note weed does nothing for me)
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| Wafer_Thin_Ham |
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Wafer_Thin_Ham
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Posted: 08:24 - 30 Apr 2008  Post subject: |
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Well what do you expect from a prime minister who's name is the same colour as shit? 
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Moonie
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| Suitor_Stu |
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Suitor_Stu
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| Posted: 11:48 - 01 May 2008 Post subject: |
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| pitslayer wrote: | why not semi legalise all drugs? think about it, if they legalised all drugs, and taxed the users then they could decrease petrol prices, and gain there revenue from that. and the only place you are allowed to do these drugs are at, specific government drug houses, where everything is sterile and nothing can go to far wrong.
gordon brown needs to get of his soap box |
Why don't people get over the fact that you CANNOT legalise drugs! Think about it, the only way it would possibly work is if every country in the world legalised them too. This is because we would still need to get them from somewhere! Ok, for the likes of cannabis, that could be grown in gvt. owned warehouses in britain (but obviously the tch content would have to be heavily regulated and enforced - greater tax per %thc?), or MDMA could be manufactured by one of the big pharaceuticals (same issue with tax and potency again probably) etc. But what of the more organic ones - opiate based ones etc? We can't grow these here, so would still have to come from abroad where they would still be illegal - how do you address the issue of the gvt actively (and publicly - unlike arms trade etc.) supporting this incredably damaging trade overseas? Or if they were grown in special secure complexes abroad they would have to have security like never seen before to stop the illegal growers/drug barrons torching the place to stop competition! The on top of this, who says they're gonna be cheaper this way? So would you rather buy your 1/2Q for £40 from the gvt or £20 from craig down the road? Which raises the issue of harder drug users on heroin etc. It would still cost them huge amounts of cash to sustain a habit, so no reduction in crime - unless heroin was available on NHS, and what message does that send out to people? And that's just the practicalities of getting the drugs in the first place, and not the moral issues people would take with the legalisation.
Anyway, what's the point in legalising if you can only use them at 'specific gvt buildings'? I sure as hell know that if alcohol was only legal to buy and consume in pubs that I would drink a lot less! Surely more than half the fun is having a wee drink at house parties, in a more comfortable environment, or just to relax after a hard day's work. See how that translates too?
Lets be honest here, most probably nothing radical with drug laws is going to happen in our lifetimes, so just be careful if you're going to do anything! I've only every known a few people to ever get caught out by drug laws, and even then I think only one got any sort of record for it - and that was only cause they were caught dealing at our old secondary school!
/rant
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| Cigaro |
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Cigaro
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Suitor_Stu
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Cigaro
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| Posted: 14:12 - 01 May 2008 Post subject: |
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All drugs, yes, but cannabis, no.
Anyway, the point is that the price should still go down if it were legal. At the moment £20 for 3.5 grams is considered a good price for weed you buy from a dealer.
Think about it, if tobacco were illegal and you had to buy it from a dealer, don't you think it would be far more expensive than it is now, even though it's not taxed? (I mean if it was to be made completely illegal, by the way. Obviously you can still buy illegal (untaxed) tobacco now, but the price of that would go up a lot if there were no other way to get it.)
(Althoug having said that, I've done some research and found that in Amsterdam coffee houses the price is usually around 5 euros for a gram, so really there isn't THAT much difference. But, as I've just found out, commercial growing is illegal there, so it's still sort of a black market because the coffee shops, whilst effectively legal, still buy from illegal growers).
IMO the way to solve the problem is to clamp down on cultivation and dealing of dope, but decriminalise having, say, four plants for personal use. That way the dealers would be out of business and the police could turn their attention to far worse drugs. |
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| Ste |
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Ste
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| Posted: 17:52 - 01 May 2008 Post subject: |
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| Suitor_Stu wrote: | So would you rather buy your 1/2Q for £40 from the gvt or £20 from craig down the road? Which raises the issue of harder drug users on heroin etc. It would still cost them huge amounts of cash to sustain a habit, so no reduction in crime - unless heroin was available on NHS, and what message does that send out to people? And that's just the practicalities of getting the drugs in the first place, and not the moral issues people would take with the legalisation. |
Yes I would, because I'd be able to go between different licensed coffeeshops to choose what I wanted to buy, where-as from buying from 'Craig' or any other street dealer is likely to be much lower quality and quite likely to have had substances added to it to increase the weight. Stuff from a licensed coffeeshop would be much much higher quality which is fair enough to have a higher price.
If heroin was available on the NHS then that'd send the message drug dealers are not wanted in this country, they'd be no reason for dealers to try and get people addicted to it since addicts would be able to get their fix for free from the NHS. So there'd be a big drop in the number of 'new addicts'.
In the Netherlands they have such a system, and the average age of heroin addicts over there is going up. Where-as in the UK the average age of heroin addicts is going down. Now which country do you think has the successful drugs policy?
| Suitor_Stu wrote: | Anyway, what's the point in legalising if you can only use them at 'specific gvt buildings'? I sure as hell know that if alcohol was only legal to buy and consume in pubs that I would drink a lot less! Surely more than half the fun is having a wee drink at house parties, in a more comfortable environment, or just to relax after a hard day's work. See how that translates too? |
Having some substances available for sale at licensed premises and people are allowed to take it off the premises and use it at home or where ever else. Only stuff like heroin would have to be used at the specific locations. Given how well its worked in other countries I see no reason for it not to work equally well in this country. |
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| Suitor_Stu |
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Suitor_Stu
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| Posted: 18:56 - 01 May 2008 Post subject: |
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| Ste wrote: | Stuff from a licensed coffeeshop would be much much higher quality which is fair enough to have a higher price. |
I just don't see the difference in value actually being transferred in a fair system if our government got hold of it - I would immagine the majority of the money would be in Tax
| Ste wrote: | If heroin was available on the NHS then that'd send the message drug dealers are not wanted in this country, they'd be no reason for dealers to try and get people addicted to it since addicts would be able to get their fix for free from the NHS. So there'd be a big drop in the number of 'new addicts'.
In the Netherlands they have such a system, and the average age of heroin addicts over there is going up. Where-as in the UK the average age of heroin addicts is going down. Now which country do you think has the successful drugs policy? |
My statement was not on how to deal with current problems, but how it would be possible to prevent further problems in the case of legalisation of Heroin. If Heroin was legalised then are you saying that more people wouldn't dabble with it? It's of no relevance really how pure the herion is, it's still widely addictive so what would be gained from legalisation? I accept that there are better methods of treating addicts that we currently have in the UK, but that's nothing to do with current legislation on the legality of the substance - IIRC herion IS available on the NHS, and is used every day in hospitals (under the name Diamorphine) as a painkiller and I would welcome any trial here which could use it to help rid people of addiction - but I can't see any reason why this couldn't be used now, without the need for any change in the laws surrounding it's control. My point is though, what would we gain from a society by legalising it on a wider scale (which was what was alluded to earlier on)?
| Ste wrote: | Given how well its worked in other countries I see no reason for it not to work equally well in this country. |
To be honest, I have no doubt that legalisation of Cannabis would work - but my point was would it be ideal? As TheBassJunky said before, even though it is legal in Netherlands, there is still an unregulated black market of sorts which kinda defeats the purpose of having something regulated. I was being deliberately reactionary in my first post by saying that ALL drugs could never be made legal - but I still fail to see any massive benefit in legalisation of Cannabis that could not come with simply a downgrading/relaxing of the laws - like for example what TheBassJunky said in his last line from the last post.
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Ste
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| Posted: 19:31 - 01 May 2008 Post subject: |
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| Suitor_Stu wrote: | I just don't see the difference in value actually being transferred in a fair system if our government got hold of it - I would immagine the majority of the money would be in Tax |
Yes I expect a large amount of the price would be tax, however since it'd pretty be a completely different product to whats sold by street dealers, it'd still be worth it. Soap bar, grit weed and all the other shit that's going around would be a thing of the past. That would have big health benefits, which of course result in a saving to the NHS.
| Suitor_Stu wrote: | My statement was not on how to deal with current problems, but how it would be possible to prevent further problems in the case of legalisation of Heroin. If Heroin was legalised then are you saying that more people wouldn't dabble with it? It's of no relevance really how pure the herion is, it's still widely addictive so what would be gained from legalisation? I accept that there are better methods of treating addicts that we currently have in the UK, but that's nothing to do with current legislation on the legality of the substance - IIRC herion IS available on the NHS, and is used every day in hospitals (under the name Diamorphine) as a painkiller and I would welcome any trial here which could use it to help rid people of addiction - but I can't see any reason why this couldn't be used now, without the need for any change in the laws surrounding it's control. My point is though, what would we gain from a society by legalising it on a wider scale (which was what was alluded to earlier on)? |
No, on the whole people wouldn't still dabble with it. Drug dealers would have no interest in it anymore, since addicts would be able to get their fix from the NHS there'd be no money in it for dealers. And so dealers wouldn't be pushing it on people. It'd be wrong to try and say that no one would ever dabble with it again, but there would be a vast reduction in the number of people trying it and so the number of people going on to become addicts. Once again I refer to the fact the average age of addicts in the Netherlands is rising, and the average age in this country is dropping. So their addicts are getting older without new people starting, and we've got kids younger and younger getting hooked. Bit of a no brainer when deciding which system works IMO.
The gains to society would be noticeable. Less drug crime, since addicts would be able to get their fix from the NHS rather than stealing to be able to buy from their local dealer who got them hooked in the first place. There'd be savings to the NHS due to there being far fewer people getting themselves hooked. There'd be saving to the police forces as they'd have much less policing to do in regards to heroin. And it'd be the biggest possible kick in the teeth to drug dealers nationwide putting them all out of jobs!! Okay it'd be naive to say that all will then be signing on looking for proper jobs, but at least that's less drugs money going into funding crime.
| Suitor_Stu wrote: | To be honest, I have no doubt that legalisation of Cannabis would work - but my point was would it be ideal? As TheBassJunky said before, even though it is legal in Netherlands, there is still an unregulated black market of sorts which kinda defeats the purpose of having something regulated. I was being deliberately reactionary in my first post by saying that ALL drugs could never be made legal - but I still fail to see any massive benefit in legalisation of Cannabis that could not come with simply a downgrading/relaxing of the laws - like for example what TheBassJunky said in his last line from the last post. |
It isn't legal in the Netherlands, its decriminalised. Yes there are still a few street dealers trying to offer cannabis, however given the availability of cannabis from licensed shops no one pays any attention to the dealers. And there's a high chance that rather than getting to buy any cannabis from them, you'd just be robbed if you expressed an interest in what they're trying to offer people.
The point of having it regulated and available through licensed outlets is that it takes it almost completely out of the hands of street dealers. Which is what it's done in the Netherlands at the benefit of the country. They have less kids trying it or using it regularly, they have far less street dealers making any kind of money from it than we do, they have a much tigher quality control on what's being sold than we do which is of great benefit to those using the drug.
Basically the drugs policy in this country doesn't work, and will never work because prohibition has never worked. The sooner someone accepts that they can never win a war against drugs or drug users (what type of leader declares war against it's own citizens!?!?), the sooner the drugs problems in this country can be addressed properly. |
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| Shay HTFC |
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Shay HTFC
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| Posted: 22:59 - 01 May 2008 Post subject: |
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Should I Smoke Dope?
Here's quite an interesting documentary about weed that has been doing the rounds on BBC3.
In Holland they have a drugs policy that only has 2 classifications: Hard and Soft.
They keep the 2 as separate as possible which makes sense. If you go to a dealer in the UK to get your weed, chances are that they might deal some heroin / harder stuff so you are never far away from it.
In Holland the common recreational drugs are a lot more readily available from licensed premises so your contact with the 'underworld' is much less.
As such, it mentions something about the number of heroin addicts in Britain going up 1000% since 1970 or so, but in Holland the number has remained constant.
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craigie b
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 16 years, 41 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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