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MaybeGuy
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PostPosted: 22:52 - 24 Jul 2008    Post subject: Matts wonderful possible patent idea... with free query! Reply with quote

ive been thinking a bit as its like 1am and i have nothing better to do...

has anyone ever made a ''backwards'' engine?

i was thinking about on my SRAD, where it has ''ram air'' yet the carbs are still behind the cylinder block?

then thought about how it is MEANT to act as a small turbo as the air is forced in.

then it got me thinking about forced air induction.

if an exhaust was where the carbs where, and carbs where the exhaust was, then it would be saving space, and increasing efficiency?

could be done by just flipping and swapping the cams over, then putting the carbs on the zorst and vice versa. this way (if my tired mind serves me correctly) the engine would rotate the same direction, but suck from the exhaust end (now carbs) and blow through the carbs (now zorst)

heres an MSpaint thing of what i mean
https://img504.imageshack.us/img504/3963/41994793vp2.jpg

alternatively, all that it would need is a gearbox modification with an idler gear to change the direction of rotation from the gearbox?

basically, a backwards mounted engine.

i think i may try this at some point when im earning a bit more.

views?

cheers queers xxx
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Blue_SV650S wrote: it was a sh1te wheelie, but it proves that he can get it up in 3rd and can do angles. In summery, mattsprattuk is a gobby little sh1tebag, dopehead tw4t, but sadly for all of us, he probably isn't THAT full of sh1te!! Mr. Green
Kickstart wrote: Hi I tend to agree with Matt. All the best Keith
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 23:00 - 24 Jul 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reverse cylinder TZR250

Seen a reverse cylinder GSXR750M

Welcome to the late 80's early 90's.
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MaybeGuy
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PostPosted: 23:03 - 24 Jul 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

fucks sake Sad
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Blue_SV650S wrote: it was a sh1te wheelie, but it proves that he can get it up in 3rd and can do angles. In summery, mattsprattuk is a gobby little sh1tebag, dopehead tw4t, but sadly for all of us, he probably isn't THAT full of sh1te!! Mr. Green
Kickstart wrote: Hi I tend to agree with Matt. All the best Keith
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Stelmer
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PostPosted: 23:08 - 24 Jul 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder if the engine would perform better with cooler air entering it?
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 23:11 - 24 Jul 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep.
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MaybeGuy
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PostPosted: 23:13 - 24 Jul 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

stelmer wrote:
I wonder if the engine would perform better with cooler air entering it?


what do turbo intercoolers do Wink

@ stinkwheel.

looks to me like the exhaust comes around the front of the cylinder?
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Blue_SV650S wrote: it was a sh1te wheelie, but it proves that he can get it up in 3rd and can do angles. In summery, mattsprattuk is a gobby little sh1tebag, dopehead tw4t, but sadly for all of us, he probably isn't THAT full of sh1te!! Mr. Green
Kickstart wrote: Hi I tend to agree with Matt. All the best Keith
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Stelmer
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PostPosted: 23:16 - 24 Jul 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

mattsprattuk wrote:

what do turbo intercoolers do Wink


Oh Embarassed

And I thought that cooled the exhust gasses down to help keep the turbo cool or sommat..... Mr. Green Embarassed Brick Wall Doh! Shifty
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 23:23 - 24 Jul 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

mattsprattuk wrote:

what do turbo intercoolers do Wink

@ stinkwheel.

looks to me like the exhaust comes around the front of the cylinder?


Nope. It has a modified SU carb off a mini. It's mounted on an offset inlet manifold to give the correct length and to keep the air inlet in clean air (rather than in the crap thrown up by the front wheel).

Incidentally. The bike is no longer like that, suggesting it wasn't all that good an idea.

For those who know him, that is Rexs bike about 10 years ago.
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I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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iooi
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PostPosted: 04:14 - 25 Jul 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you have missed the main problem.....

Look at how much crap your exhausts get covered in, now that is not a problem.
Put the carbs there and even the smallest bit of crap is going to cause problems to any moving part. Then you have the small issue of finding somewhere to mount the air filter etc and getting a smooth air path to the carbs.
Then while cool dense air is more efficiant in terms of power production, what are you going to do in winter with all that super cooled air hitting the carbs and no method of keeping them warm, to stop iceing.
Carbs are delicate items that need as much protection as poss to avoid problems.

Never mind the problem that you have lost most of the cooling on the exhaust.....
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Wafer_Thin_Ham
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PostPosted: 05:36 - 25 Jul 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

As an example of how bad an idea it was the Foggy Petronas FP-1 was reverse cylinder.
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Last edited by Wafer_Thin_Ham on 05:54 - 25 Jul 2008; edited 1 time in total
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DEN MONKEY
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PostPosted: 07:51 - 25 Jul 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

mattsprattuk wrote:
fucks sake Sad


At least now you know it works Smile
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Gazdaman
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PostPosted: 09:43 - 25 Jul 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

In theory it's a good idea. And as mentioned the one that immediately sprung to mind was the TZR250 3ma reverse cylinder model.

Some bikes have a hole in the headstock for the clean air flow to come through there.

You'd think that people would have worked on this design from the word go really, it just makes sense.

I think cooling was also an issue with hot gas going out the back, and being insulated by seat units and such. And having no air flow.

Gaz
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MaybeGuy
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PostPosted: 09:49 - 25 Jul 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gazdaman wrote:
In theory it's a good idea. And as mentioned the one that immediately sprung to mind was the TZR250 3ma reverse cylinder model.

Some bikes have a hole in the headstock for the clean air flow to come through there.

You'd think that people would have worked on this design from the word go really, it just makes sense.

I think cooling was also an issue with hot gas going out the back, and being insulated by seat units and such. And having no air flow.

Gaz


i suppose you could get round the overheating by having some sort of rear mounted ram air system like the triumph speed triple has, but on one side to blow the hot air away?

also, what about V-twins and V4's? they have cylinders at the back of the engine.

if there was a way to make a decent air filter, then a trumpet type intake could be used to create a lot of forced pressure into the cylinder and could probably get a fair amount of boost!

give it 5 years and im definatly going to try it.
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Blue_SV650S wrote: it was a sh1te wheelie, but it proves that he can get it up in 3rd and can do angles. In summery, mattsprattuk is a gobby little sh1tebag, dopehead tw4t, but sadly for all of us, he probably isn't THAT full of sh1te!! Mr. Green
Kickstart wrote: Hi I tend to agree with Matt. All the best Keith
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Wafer_Thin_Ham
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PostPosted: 09:53 - 25 Jul 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

mattsprattuk wrote:

i suppose you could get round the overheating by having some sort of rear mounted ram air system like the triumph speed triple has, but on one side to blow the hot air away?

also, what about V-twins and V4's? they have cylinders at the back of the engine.

if there was a way to make a decent air filter, then a trumpet type intake could be used to create a lot of forced pressure into the cylinder and could probably get a fair amount of boost!

give it 5 years and im definatly going to try it.


The Yamaha M1 has a similar system to suck air in the tail unit to cool the electrics.

That's why the NC30 and 35 had bigger main jets on the rear cylinders, because they run hotter than the front 2.

And you wouldn't get that much boost, no more than you get at the moment with the airbox mounted above the engine. The air goes straight into the airbox then down. That one turn doesn't make a huge difference.
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MaybeGuy
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PostPosted: 10:03 - 25 Jul 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Big_Ham wrote:


The Yamaha M1 has a similar system to suck air in the tail unit to cool the electrics.

That's why the NC30 and 35 had bigger main jets on the rear cylinders, because they run hotter than the front 2.

And you wouldn't get that much boost, no more than you get at the moment with the airbox mounted above the engine. The air goes straight into the airbox then down. That one turn doesn't make a huge difference.


its more than one turn, as the air collects in the airbox, then goes through the engine, causing it to lose a hell of a lot of pressure loss due to the size of the airbox.

picture a traffic cone on the front of your bike with the point facing towards the engine, and the carbs on the end of the point.

would look rediculous, but it would give one hell of a boost.
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Blue_SV650S wrote: it was a sh1te wheelie, but it proves that he can get it up in 3rd and can do angles. In summery, mattsprattuk is a gobby little sh1tebag, dopehead tw4t, but sadly for all of us, he probably isn't THAT full of sh1te!! Mr. Green
Kickstart wrote: Hi I tend to agree with Matt. All the best Keith
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Wil
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PostPosted: 11:10 - 25 Jul 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Backwards engine, eh? I'd imagine a backwards engine would act the opposite of a normal engine and turn power into petrol, resulting in a lack of power and petrol tank that never seems to run dry...

Don't stop the press, mind, but I think I must have had one in my old Honda City Express.
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MaybeGuy
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PostPosted: 12:58 - 25 Jul 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
Yep.


that pic reminds me of my gix 4 Embarassed Sad i miss that fuckerhttps://img293.imageshack.us/img293/4573/image231oj0.jpg
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Blue_SV650S wrote: it was a sh1te wheelie, but it proves that he can get it up in 3rd and can do angles. In summery, mattsprattuk is a gobby little sh1tebag, dopehead tw4t, but sadly for all of us, he probably isn't THAT full of sh1te!! Mr. Green
Kickstart wrote: Hi I tend to agree with Matt. All the best Keith
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Groove
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PostPosted: 13:01 - 25 Jul 2008    Post subject: Re: Matts wonderful possible patent idea... with free query! Reply with quote

I dont think any idea that started with...

mattsprattuk wrote:
heres an MSpaint thing of what i mean


...ended up a multi-billion pound idea.


Laughing
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 13:30 - 25 Jul 2008    Post subject: Re: Matts wonderful possible patent idea... with free query! Reply with quote

Groovearmada wrote:
I dont think any idea that started with...

mattsprattuk wrote:
heres an MSpaint thing of what i mean


...ended up a multi-billion pound idea.


Laughing


It could probably be considered the modern equivalent of the well proven Fag packet design methodology in that you can only do a basic outline of your idea.
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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