Locked up for 12 years for knowledge!

[SoND]

https://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7570134.stm - 3 men are found guilty of possessing documents and are thrown in a cell for 12 + 10 years with the 3rd still awaiting sentencing.

[stinkwheel]

The original napalm was made using Naptha and Palmic acid. So if you know the name of napalm, you know what it's made of.

It is also no more dangerous than petrol in the grand scheme of things, just stickier.

Great for getting bonfires going

You don't make proper explosives using acetone, you just use it as a solvent to keep them stable until you want to use them.

These terrorists seem to make some properly shit explosives anyway.

The whole "only 100ml of liquid " on aeroplanes thing makes me laugh too. They obviously don't have even the slightest idea how big a hole 100ml of eg. solvent stabilised tri-iodide would make in an aeroplane.
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[SoND]

[colin1]

Its hard to get results on prosecuting people for terrorism. They want to prevent terrorism so will intervene before a crime can be committed.

As we dont actually have successful terrorists (with one or two exceptions), instead they have to prosecute people for thinking about commiting crimes.

Thought crime.

The burden of proof required is very small.

I know someone who records proceedings in court and is one of the few are allowed to be present during terrorism hearings.

He didnt tell me details, but in some cases, all they need to have done is to have visited a website to be branded a terrorist and then put under house arrest or whatever.

You could argue that it needs to be this way, but we have a tradition in this country of innocent until proven guilty and that you have to be guilty of an act not a thought.

If we didnt give up this principle when we were regularly under attack from the IRA, I dont think we should give it up now, when the threat is different but not necessarily that worse.
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colin1 is officially faster than god

[Phoenix]

But if they didn't arrest people for this kind of thing then the fear machine would lose momentum. Who would support the war on Terror when there is no evidence of Terrorism close to home, a few stories a month keeps it all going.

[igiyf]

terror terror fearrrrrr fearrrrrrrrr terror terrorrr

imagine for a moment the exact amount of money spent on the war on terror was used in America and the uk to tie up the lose ends of the country's,from road works to youth programs..on education teaching what its like to be a human on a planet with another 6 billion humans..to show the youth weather they are deeply religious or just have a hate against moshers that in the smallest glass of the science lab billions of organisms are side by side without a problem,you cant solve a war with..well a war...you cant resist anything and win...removing a group of people due to there ideas will not stop there ideas from manifesting within the world.. its all about the software not the hardware.. no i don't agree with "thought crime" but the focus should be placed on teaching people others are different..and thats ok..the "you bombed us so were going to bomb you" mentality is on the same level as "he hit my first..yea well he deserved it" "my uncles harder than your uncles..yea well you ain't seen my grandad av you hes 102 "

the policy's of those leading this world really do remind me of playground politics..its really as though they don't want to change things..they just want to control things and prevent things from happening,maybe they don't know how to change things..who knows.. all i believe is that the days off a select few deciding whats what for billions-with a voting of party's and a bullshit parade every few years are nearing there end..we as a society are either about to lose all control over our lives or find our selfs having to take much more responsibility over the workings of the world..focusing on ones own life and letting the powers around you run wild only lead to these outcomes.

[Itchy]

Politics of fear as per usual , anybody expect a cultural revolution soon? , ie book burnings rounding up and execution of people who know things...

You know sometimes I often think if history books are wrong in that the Nazis actually won WWII but altered the history books to make it look as if we are free...
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Spain 2008France 2007Big one 2009 We all die. The goal isn't to live forever, the goal is to create something that will. In the end, your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.

[map]

[Hetzer]

"Ok, here's how it's going to be...

There are 100 of you. One of you has been beaten up by one other, so the other 98 of you are going to be placed under curfew. It's for your own good."
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"There's the horizon! Ride hard, ride fast and cut down all who stand in your way!"

[igiyf]

https://www.rageagainsttheright.com/teletubbies.jpg

[Skudd]

Or, there are 100 of you, one has £1,000 one has a gun, shoots the guy with a £1,000. 98 of you are told that it serves the first person right for having a £1,000 and that they are all headless sheep for not thinking of shooting the man with £1,000.

It is just as much a valid point as the other and I do agree that the other point is valid if a little extreme.

What we have at the moment are a few facts, some left in some removed to add to the Terror created by the government, the same way that the Government uses to tell us about Terrorists.

But what would you prefer? I remember Tim Parry and I was in Warrington when the bomb went off, I just wish someone had used the thought of doing principle there.

Stop a person that reasonable intelligence has highlighted before he acts and if that intelligence is wrong then he can be compensated, or wait until things go bang and have to explain why no action was taken knowing that someone was planning an act of terror?


Think of Drink drivers, they may not have actually caused a crash but the potential is there also stopping them getting in the car before they kill the biker, or should we wait for the dead biker then complain at the light sentence the drink driver gets?

There is a line to be drawn, and I don't know where to draw it, between having the knowledge and what you are going to do with that knowledge. If I carry a screw driver am I just carrying a screw driver or am I going to use it as a means to gain illegal entry into someones garage and steal their bike? At what point does it change from one to the other?
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Famous last words of Humpty Dumpty. " Stop pushing me "
Petty Anarchists look at "1984".............. The Visionary looks at "Animal Farm".

[SoND]

[MarJay]

Thats quite scary. I have books that have more info in them on bombing than that...

This fucking government are the worst for civil liberties in the history of the UK. They've destroyed the precept of common law by bringing in the Human Rights act, They are banning the posession of objects rather than enforcing the laws we currently have against using said objects to injure and kill.

They are bringing in saturday night policemen (PCSOs) who have no real clue what is going on.

They are Nannying us to death, and it won't be long before we aren't allowed to leave our houses, lest we injure ourselves or others... Oh sorry but then we won't be able to spend money to keep the economy going to pay their overinflated salaries and expenses!

Its funny really, because people usually go all anti establishment in their late teens and early twenties. I'm approaching thirty and getting more angry at the government as time goes on. I'm certain it is a rational hatred, and not just a boyish hormonal thing. I genuinely think this government needs to be brought down and replaced. And fast.
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British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.

[igiyf]

[SoND]

[Skudd]

I have the knowledge that if I put a plastic bag over someones head they will suffocate and die, I know where to get the bags and I have bags. That knowledge in the hands of the wrong people could be very dangerous.
How do we know who the wrong people are?
What brings these people to light?
Why out of all the people in this country do the law enforcement officers choose these people?
It is easy to say that liberties are being eroded, that they have the wrong guys etc etc etc, But how did they come to the conclusions, it is ok to trawl out the old bigoted pigs out to smash free speech line, but it can't be that all the time ?
____________________
Famous last words of Humpty Dumpty. " Stop pushing me "
Petty Anarchists look at "1984".............. The Visionary looks at "Animal Farm".

[Hetzer]

[MarJay]

[pa_broon74]

Reading that article worries me greatly, its so biased.

Far to many 'could be' 'might haves' and 'possibly's.'

The irony is, we now have laws against inciting racial hatred and terrorist acts etc etc... Coould it not be argued that this entire trial has incited recial hatred and 'could maybe' radicalise more young muslims leading to more of a terrorist threat.

If they had these people under such tight surveilance, would it have been much more complicated to wait until they'd actually started to collect together the raw materials for an explosive device?

[Skudd]

[pits]

Sorry its late, and I am lazy to read through the posts, sorry. Can I just ask, what do you use acetone for in welding? we use it everyday in work for various things usually moisture removal, or paint removal from paint guns. I have never heard of it being used in welding

[Mister James]

It seems to me that most people have misread the article.

[igiyf]

Liquid Bomb “Terror Plot” Collapses In Court

September 9, 2008

The much vaunted liquid bomb “terror plot” that provoked paranoid airport security measures, an overnight change in baggage procedures, and at one point led to mothers having to drink their own breast milk, completely collapsed yesterday in court after the alleged ringleader was completely acquitted and none of the other suspects were charged with conspiracy to blow up an airliner.

“Seven men admitted plotting to cause a public nuisance. An eighth man was cleared at Woolwich Crown Court,” reports the BBC.

“But after more than 50 hours of deliberations, the jury did not find any of the defendants guilty of conspiring to target aircraft.”

“Mohammad Gulzar, 27, who Scotland Yard accused of being a ringleader in the plot, was cleared of all offenses,” adds the Register.


Despite the fact that all the suspects were cleared of charges of targeting aircraft, some quarters of the media are still bizarrely citing the verdicts as a reason to continue the inane and pointless restrictions on liquids in carry-on luggage.

Numerous airliners as well as Britain’s largest airport owner are now calling on the government to repeal the measures.

“We would expect the government to review its security regulations following the outcome of this case,” said Roger Wiltshire, chief executive of the British Air Transport Association, whose members include BA and Virgin, reports the Guardian.

BAA, the owner of Britain’s top three airports, including Heathrow, said: “Today’s verdict seems like a good opportunity for the government to consider the security measures currently in place at British airports.”

Whether the government will cave in to pressure and reverse their much cherished behavior compliance airport security measures remains to be seen, but the fact that the “liquid terror plot” was a complete fabrication became apparent from the very start.

In every single major terror bust or terror alert we have proven the evidence to be flawed and the charges to be cooked up nonsense aimed at prolonging the illusion that terror cells are lurking around every corner waiting to cause mayhem. The geopolitical agenda of the U.S., Britain and Israel depends on the proliferation phony terror threats in order to continue the farcical war on terror and take more of our innate freedoms at home to stifle dissent against the plot for worldwide hegemony.

In a series of reports following the August 10th scare, we traced the source of the alleged attack plot to Pakistani and British intelligence and were rapidly able to confirm that the story was nothing more than a manufactured ploy to frighten travelers at the height of the holiday season.

The reason being cited for the failure to convict the suspects of being behind a plot to blow up airliners is that the U.S. government wanted the men apprehended before MI5 were able to collect all the evidence against them.

In reality, as we reported at the time, an MI5 spy had infiltrated the group at an early stage which is often the case when agent provocateurs are attempting to radicalize a group and provoke them into committing acts of violence.

The announcement of the foiled plot was made on August 10th, but officials stated that they wanted to wait at least another week before busting the group, meaning August 17th or thereafter. According to the very timescale of the plot put forward by authorities, the attack was scheduled for August 16th, meaning authorities only wanted to bust the group after the attack had taken place.

Evidence that the suspects identified were mere patsies in a wider conspiracy became clear when it emerged that they didn’t even have passports and could not have boarded a transatlantic plane.

Echoing the activities of the 7/7 bombers, some of the main suspects in the case exhibited behavior that in no way suggested they were preparing to launch mid-air suicide attacks on jumbo jets. Far from preparing his last will and testament, psyching himself up for his imminent death or acquiring the necessary materials to conduct the operation, Tayib Rauf was caught on CCTV hours before the launch of the plot doing something far more mundane - he was buying cakes for his father’s confectionary business.

Former British Ambassador to Uzbekistan Craig Murray slammed the so-called foiled plot story as “propaganda” on behalf of Bush and Blair who yearn for a “new 9/11″ to reinvigorate their flagging support base.

“None of the alleged terrorists had made a bomb. None had bought a plane ticket. Many did not even have passports, which given the efficiency of the UK Passport Agency would mean they couldn’t be a plane bomber for quite some time,” said Murray.

The embarrassing collapse of another government-concocted terror fairytale should immediately mandate the repeal of ridiculous measures in airports that do nothing to stop would-be terrorists and everything to hassle and inconvenience innocent travelers - but don’t expect the authorities to give up a key aspect of their prototype police state without a fight.

[Skudd]

You can't say it was a complete collapse. Some points were not proven, some were. Some of the evidence the media has shown is very compelling and would be negligent if not followed up. if when following it up it is deemed appropriate to have suicide messages and fundamental rants like those that have been seen done by so many suicide bombers then all must be hunky dory.
Next time i see a kid with a knife swearing and yelling he is going to kill someone i will not take the slightest bit of notice as it is ok to do that sort of thing. or should I at least get him stopped and questioned about his actions?
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Famous last words of Humpty Dumpty. " Stop pushing me "
Petty Anarchists look at "1984".............. The Visionary looks at "Animal Farm".

[igiyf]

you need ittttttttttttttttttttttttt,,give it to meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee terrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrooooooooooooooooo feeeeeeeeeeeeeeeedddddddddddddd meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee