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igiyf
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PostPosted: 02:13 - 03 Oct 2008    Post subject: US urged to bolster missile, space defenses against China: Reply with quote

yes this is copied and pasted,no it did"t take me much time to do,but as i said a few weeks ago "who's next to be seen as a threat,china?"

this is the first step towards building up china as a major "threat" to the Usa/west,along with Russia and Pakistan,who are the key players in the planned war we are in for.

A draft report recommends that the United States build new missile, sea-based and space-based defenses to deal with China’s growing nuclear and conventional forces, a newspaper said Wednesday.

The draft by a State Department advisory board said China aims to build forces that are not just capable of retaking Taiwan but also of projecting power beyond east Asia, The Washington Times reported.

China’s “major objective is to counter US presence and US military capabilities in East Asia through the acquisition of offensive capacities in critical functional areas that systematically exploit US vulnerabilities,” it quoted the report as saying.

China is developing capabilities for “asymmetric warfare,” such as space and computer weapons, that could help it defeat stronger US armed forces, according to a copy of the draft the daily said it had obtained.

The report warned of gaps in US missile defenses, dependence on space for communications, reliance on aircraft carriers to project power to China’s shores, and “fragile electronics and the Internet,” the newspaper said.

The draft recommends that the United States obtain new offensive space and cyber warfare capabilities and missile defenses as well as “more robust sea- and space-based capabilities” to deter any crisis over Taiwan, the daily said.

The ISAB report said China was headed for expansion after centuries as a regional power.

“In China’s view, Taiwan is the key to breakout: If China is to become a global power, the first step must include control of this island,” the report was quoted as saying.

Once it controls the island of Taiwan, China would then be able to control the neighboring seas and to project power eastward, according to the report.

The draft by the Secretary of State’s International Security Advisory Board (ISAB) is significant, it added, because US government and private-sector analyses have until now not seen China as a US security challenge.

The Washington Times said the report has not been officially released, but could be released in a few weeks.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=+US+urged+to+bolster+missile%2C+space+defenses+against+China%3A+paper&meta=&btnG=Google+Search

of course this "really shows how dumb i am" as was pointed out last time i said America will see china as a threat..but hey its not been officially released yet so for the time being i guess im still dumb,along with any one who has not yet come to notice America is viewing every one as a threat and are really going to fuck this world up if left to there own devices.
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JonB
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PostPosted: 05:27 - 03 Oct 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Who cares when America's superpower status is receeding as we speak?

https://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7645743.stm
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igiyf
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PostPosted: 05:42 - 03 Oct 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes john..there going to let it slip away Thumbs Up
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Itchy
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PostPosted: 07:55 - 03 Oct 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Erm you do realise that China has already won right? ,

All the production facilities and much of the technical know how has already moved east..

Stockbrokers and bankers shorting THEIR OWN companies are just being complicit in this.....


Its rather more interdependent however....

But as said its ridiculous there isn't any need for military action they just need to sit and wait, Taiwan's economic power is being eaten away by the mainland.


Even in a conventional non nuclear war western powers would probably be defeated anyway...

Sure western stuff is alot more high tech and advanced but history has taught us that numbers can defeat superior weapons , the T34 was vastly inferior to the King tiger, the Sherman was vastly inferior to the panzers...

Its just that you need to reach a tipping point where numbers become overwhelming ie if the Somme had 25 million strong infantry rush the war would have been over. China has 900 million expenable people.... which were in preparation for a wa with the USSR.


However I don't believe it will happen as all of a sudden the leaders and wealthy elite of China have far too much to lose if they decide to grab nations..... while they can sit and wait
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Mister James
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PostPosted: 08:06 - 03 Oct 2008    Post subject: Re: US urged to bolster missile, space defenses against Chin Reply with quote

mad_man wrote:

of course this "really shows how dumb i am" as was pointed out last time i said America will see china as a threat..but hey its not been officially released yet so for the time being i guess im still dumb,along with any one who has not yet come to notice America is viewing every one as a threat and are really going to fuck this world up if left to there own devices.


What really shows how dumb you are is that you think this is news.

I remember a briefing I attended in 1998 when I was in the RNR at what was then PJHQ in Northwood. It quite clearly stated that the 2 main threats for the 21st century were rising Islamic terrorism and China's growing strength.

Nothing has changed since then, and nothing has been hidden - the information has been out in the public domain for the last ten years, and even before that if you bothered to look.

Leaving aside your rabid and blind anti-US sentiment for just a few seconds; think carefully about the situation we face:

Arrow Ever-shrinking global resources
Arrow Ever-expanding world population
Arrow Parts of China are extremely wealthy, and the rest of it is starting to say "where's our slice of the pie?".
Arrow China needs to maintain its huge growth rate for decades to come if it is to satisfy the needs of its increasingly demanding population.
Arrow Cracks are appearing in the hitherto invincible American facade.

Not only has China always maintained that it will take back Taiwan (or the Republic of China, depending on which side you are on) it will need to secure fresh resources if it is to maintain its current growth rate.

Arrow China has increased its military budget year after year.
Arrow China has taken huge steps to enhance its ability to 'project power' using military assets.
Arrow China does have a human rights record that makes even the most fetid of anti-US fantasies pale into insignificance.
Arrow China has been quietly buying up support and interests in Africa - the more unpleasant the government the better.
Arrow China has always been a rather self-centred culture, and they genuinely believe this to be their century and their time - as strongly as the US ever believed in Pax Americana.

China is a threat to The West and its interests; regardless of how much you hate Bush. Whether you believe that to necessarily be a good thing is another question entirely, but there is no denying it.
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Hetzer
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PostPosted: 08:15 - 03 Oct 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another perfect example of the sub-human filth running the planet. Instead of

a) Peacefully limiting population growth
b) Rationing remaining resources equally
c) Developing free energy

they are

a) Using R&D to develop new weaponry
b) Planning a war of annihilation

The worst leading the best into hell.
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Mister James
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PostPosted: 08:16 - 03 Oct 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Itchy wrote:

Sure western stuff is alot more high tech and advanced but history has taught us that numbers can defeat superior weapons , the T34 was vastly inferior to the King tiger, the Sherman was vastly inferior to the panzers...


Not quite true. In both cases the German tanks (the more powerful ones, anyway) were unreliable and/or on the shitty end of a poor supply chain.

Modern Western armies have far superior logistical and C3 systems than those employed by the Chinese - numbers will only serve you up to a point. The Americans could sweep their airforce (or ours, for that matter) from the skies without a single Chinese plane getting within missile range of the Yanks. For the most part, any forseeable land war would yield similar results.

Where the Americans need to worry is the field of espionage - the Chinese have been engaged in immense spying operations in the US and Europe for years, if not decades. What they can't steal from the Yanks they buy off-the-shelf from the Europeans.

Quote:

China has 900 million expenable people.... which were in preparation for a wa with the USSR.


As standards of living and education rise, that pool of malleable conscripts will shrink.

Quote:

However I don't believe it will happen as all of a sudden the leaders and wealthy elite of China have far too much to lose if they decide to grab nations..... while they can sit and wait


A massive world war is unlikely - but look out for a Chinese land-grab into sparsely populated areas of Russian territory.
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Hetzer
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PostPosted: 08:18 - 03 Oct 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

James, the difference between the chinese and US administrations is one of degree only. They are both inherently evil.
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panrider_uk
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PostPosted: 08:21 - 03 Oct 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hetzer wrote:
James, the difference between the chinese and US administrations is one of degree only. They are both inherently evil.


Who, in your opinion, isn't evil sub-human filth? Seems any authority you mention is.

Mark
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Mister James
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PostPosted: 08:24 - 03 Oct 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hetzer wrote:
James, the difference between the chinese and US administrations is one of degree only. They are both inherently evil.


I don't believe either are inherently evil as such - but I agree that they are very similar in that they are only interested in what's in their country's interests (read into that whatever political/capitalist/special interest subtext you subscribe to).

That's why I get sniffy when people rant on about the Evil American Government - there isn't a single government in the world that wouldn't throw its weight around like the Yanks if it had the big stick to back it up with, like they do.

Sanctimonious countries like Belgium and France have shown how unpleasant they can be if given the chance - look no further than their actions in the twilight of the colonial era.
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igiyf
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PostPosted: 08:25 - 03 Oct 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

no james china is not a threat to the west..there not going to start a nuclear war with us and there not going to launch terror attacks..who the fuck is america to come down on a nation because they are expanding?

if use of natural resources is "a threat" then America is the biggest offender

Quote:
Leaving aside your rabid and blind anti-US sentiment for just a few seconds;


what in the fuck are you on about..who this decade has started two uncalled for wars and murdered 1 million +..do you see china invading the world because they cant look after there own?
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Hetzer
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PostPosted: 08:28 - 03 Oct 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

panrider_uk wrote:
Hetzer wrote:
James, the difference between the chinese and US administrations is one of degree only. They are both inherently evil.


Who, in your opinion, isn't evil sub-human filth? Seems any authority you mention is.

Mark


There are a small number of enlightened govts. Most of the Scandinavian for example. It would seem that the smaller a country is, with less wealth and resources, the less likely it is to see a certain kind of greedy psychotic filth trying to climb to the top and take control. There's probably a bell-graph or something to be had out of that calculation.
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Hetzer
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PostPosted: 08:30 - 03 Oct 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mister James wrote:
Hetzer wrote:
James, the difference between the chinese and US administrations is one of degree only. They are both inherently evil.


I don't believe either are inherently evil as such - but I agree that they are very similar in that they are only interested in what's in their country's interests (read into that whatever political/capitalist/special interest subtext you subscribe to).

That's why I get sniffy when people rant on about the Evil American Government - there isn't a single government in the world that wouldn't throw its weight around like the Yanks if it had the big stick to back it up with, like they do.

Sanctimonious countries like Belgium and France have shown how unpleasant they can be if given the chance - look no further than their actions in the twilight of the colonial era.


Not inherently evil? What fvcking country do you live in mate, same one as me?! Laughing Laughing Laughing
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igiyf
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PostPosted: 08:34 - 03 Oct 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

lets take a look at America

Iraq=threat=destroyed
afghan=threat=destroying as we speak
Pakistan=threat=build up has started
Iran=threat=build up for attack on going
Russia=threat=propaganda and build up on going
china=threat=build up has started

WHO OUT OF ANY OF THESE COUNTRY'S HAS TOUCHED AMERICA?
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igiyf
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PostPosted: 08:54 - 03 Oct 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

nnnnnnNew"s flash its been discovered my Nan now poses one of the greatest threats to America and the west as a hole-thats you and your familys!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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igiyf
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PostPosted: 08:57 - 03 Oct 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.techshout.com/images/flying-pigeon.jpg

no thats not my nan- thats The Pigeon of death-it has nuclear capability's and is a great threat to our way of life..we must destroy half the earth to counter act this threat

https://blogs.dallasobserver.com/unfairpark/Smiling%20Pig.jpg
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Mister James
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PostPosted: 09:01 - 03 Oct 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hetzer wrote:

There are a small number of enlightened govts. Most of the Scandinavian for example. It would seem that the smaller a country is, with less wealth and resources, the less likely it is to see a certain kind of greedy psychotic filth trying to climb to the top and take control. There's probably a bell-graph or something to be had out of that calculation.


Agreed, for the most part.

I think the Scandinavian nations gave up their dreams of world domination years ago (most likely in the face of major powers such as Russian, France and Germany, and just concentrated on setting themselves up nicely. It seems to have worked out well for them - they are the epitome of what Labour kid us we are; high taxes = high level of public services.

Mad Man - stop being so childish! You're well aware that in this global age countries have interests beyond their own shores. A threat to those is little different to a threat to their own territory.

You may not agree with the extent or nature of those interests, but they exist, and only a blind man would ignore the fact that ANY nation will do anything it can to protect them.

Your inability to at least recognise the Realpolitik of the situation is why I continue to treat your opinions as a poor joke.
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igiyf
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PostPosted: 09:08 - 03 Oct 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
You're well aware that in this global age countries have interests beyond their own shores. A threat to those is little different to a threat to their own territory.

You may not agree with the extent or nature of those interests, but they exist, and only a blind man would ignore the fact that ANY nation will do anything it can to protect them.


yea oil and keeping the $ alive striking out at those who no longer want to use it..if you want to be a fucking fool and support that just to maintain your way of life thats your choice.... these country's pose no military risk to america..but they will if america keeps on acting as if its the ruler of the world
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 09:41 - 03 Oct 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

Frankly the US military is so over stretched just on 2 minor conflicts that they are no threat to major nations.

All the best

Keith
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igiyf
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PostPosted: 10:35 - 03 Oct 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

thats what the upcoming national draft is for..all they need is another "event" to spark it all off.. im not confident they will succeed in there desired goals but there going to make one hell of a mess attempting to do so..
its so pointless its beyond belief.
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 10:42 - 03 Oct 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

They couldn't afford a national draft (military pensions alone would be hideous, it is only a few years ago that the last recipient of a pension from the American Civil War died), nor could they make use of a large, poorly trained and poorly motivated military like that. Might be useful for home defence, but they do not have the resources to ship massive numbers to other theatres (and nor do the Chinese).

All the best

Keith
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igiyf
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PostPosted: 10:49 - 03 Oct 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

hope your correct Keith.. if it gets to that stage they would"t be paying wages Laughing.

they want a million strong home brigade as funded as the army and all fully armed policing the American streets as well...seems very far fetched..time will show.
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 10:52 - 03 Oct 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thought they had enough gang problems, without arming large gang of military rejects.

All the best

Keith
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igiyf
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PostPosted: 11:13 - 03 Oct 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

"We cannot continue to rely on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives that we've set. We've got to have a civilian national security force that's just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded." (emphasis added)

The immediate context for that amazing statement was a preview of parts of his plan to vastly expand community service opportunities for Americans of nearly all ages. He said,

"People of all ages, stations, and skills will be asked to serve."

The range of his community service initiatives was outlined in an earlier American Thinker article. In his campaign document entitled "The Blueprint for Change: Barack Obama's Plan For America," Obama's "Service" section runs a close second to "Education" in complexity. But, with his Colorado Springs' statement, it grabbed first place in its projected costs to taxpayers. Obama did the cost projection himself.

He plans to double the Peace Corps' budget by 2011, and expand AmeriCorps, USA Freedom Corps, VISTA, YouthBuild Program, and the Senior Corps. Plus, he proposes to form a Classroom Corps, Health Corps, Clean Energy Corps, Veterans Corps, Homeland Security Corps, Global Energy Corps, and a Green Jobs Corps. Here a corps - there a corps - everywhere a corps corps.


The U.S. Army alone has nearly 500,000 troops. That doesn’t count reserves or National Guard. In 2007, the U.S. Defense budget was $439 billion.

Is Obama serious about creating some kind of domestic security force bigger and more expensive than that?[/quote]
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Mister James
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PostPosted: 11:54 - 03 Oct 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kickstart wrote:
Hi

Frankly the US military is so over stretched just on 2 minor conflicts that they are no threat to major nations.

All the best

Keith


Incorrect.

The reason that the US (and UK, and NATO, etc) is so overstretched in what you describe as minor conflicts is because it was designed to be a threat to major industrialised nations, not towel-wearing chaps hiding in caves.

American (and indeed, Western) military might is designed to attack nations - they'd rip through China's military and civilian infrastructure like a machete through wet tissue, and find it far easier than the endless slog that Iraq/Afghan have turned into.

Look at the opening stages of the Iraq war (or the Afghan, for the matter) - large scale maneuver warfare is what the US does best, and even the Russians at the height of their powers knew it.
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