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wheelies and oil

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The Artist
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PostPosted: 10:45 - 09 Oct 2008    Post subject: wheelies and oil Reply with quote

Ok I was just wondering, say you were doing a wheelie on a 4t bike.

Are the engines more prone to seizing (IL4's) because the cylinders are located towards the front and oil would head to the rear of the engine.

I saw a vid with someone doing a wheelie for miles and just wondering if this could harm it anyway.

Do newer bikes have systems to overcome this?
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Whosthedaddy
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PostPosted: 10:48 - 09 Oct 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Half-lyfe, end of.
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G
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PostPosted: 10:49 - 09 Oct 2008    Post subject: Re: wheelies and oil Reply with quote

It depends on the bike - generally twins seem to be more prone to it. The issue is not with cylinders, but where the oil pickup is located.
On some bikes there are standard mods you can do to move the oil pickup towards the back of the sump and lower down to ensure it keeps squirting oil around the head etc even when it's at a high attitude.

Age bike is fairly irrelevant - sadly I don't think many bikes are designed with long wheelies specifically in mind.
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 10:59 - 09 Oct 2008    Post subject: Re: wheelies and oil Reply with quote

allymoss wrote:
Are the engines more prone to seizing (IL4's) because the cylinders are located towards the front and oil would head to the rear of the engine.


Don't tend to seize as they will likely wreck the crank before then.

Lots of things affect it. Position of the oil pickup (obvious). Position of the engine breathers (those just sat on top of the gearbox will likely blow out more oil). How much crankcase volume changes as the pistons move up and down (more the volume changes the more likely a relevant amount of oil will be pumped out with the air).

Wonder whether Yamaha have increased the breather capacity for the new R1 with its odd crank.

All the best

Keith
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The Artist
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PostPosted: 11:31 - 09 Oct 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh right.

So is it easy to move the pick up tube or is it a complete bottom end strip down as I imagin it is right in the middle of the engine.

Luke, don't suppose you wanna sell your r6 for £1800? Razz
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 11:47 - 09 Oct 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

allymoss wrote:
So is it easy to move the pick up tube or is it a complete bottom end strip down as I imagin it is right in the middle of the engine.


Most bikes have a sump plate that you could remove to get at it. However most bikes also would not have space to easily relocate the oil pickup without extending the sump downwards.

All the best

Keith
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Ghost
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PostPosted: 11:57 - 09 Oct 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Still baffles me that a lot of bike manufacturers don't seem to have taken wheelies into account at all when designing their sports bikes. Confused
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Wafer_Thin_Ham
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PostPosted: 14:47 - 09 Oct 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ghost wrote:
Still baffles me that a lot of bike manufacturers don't seem to have taken wheelies into account at all when designing their sports bikes. Confused


Because far more sports bikes do track work than get constantly wheelied.(In the UK at least)
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Eddie Hitler
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PostPosted: 15:25 - 09 Oct 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

How would a FMX650 (Domi single, dry sump) handle wheelies?

I guess i should know. Rolling Eyes
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G
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PostPosted: 16:15 - 09 Oct 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Engines only start to suffer when you're talking properly long ones; when you can hold it up indefinitely, basically.
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G
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PostPosted: 16:44 - 09 Oct 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Never seen a problem with engine oil-pickups placed 'wrongly' (generally at the front) doing 'learner' wheelies. The engine gets oil again fairly quickly.
(Of course, there can be other issues, such as people holding it on the rev-limiter, etc.)
While those with them placed 'well' for wheelies should be fine to carry on for ever, of course.
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Ghost
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PostPosted: 18:29 - 09 Oct 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wheelies are still common as muck though, read any magazine test of a sportsbike and you're guaranteed to find a wheelie picture or two in there. IMO opinion wheelies are one of the fundamental aspects of hooligan riding so I would've thought manufacturers would at least briefly take them into account. I.E not designing an engine that will chew itself up in minutes if the bike is ridden on it's back wheel.

Just my opinion.
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Spit-Fire
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PostPosted: 18:30 - 09 Oct 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

is there no ,od that sloves the problem? (as im taking it stunters wont wont the bikes going ku-put due to how they uuse it)
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 19:00 - 09 Oct 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ghost wrote:
IMO opinion crashes are one of the fundamental aspects of hooligan riding so I would've thought manufacturers would at least briefly take them into account. I.E not designing an bike that will destroy itself in seconds if the bike is thrown down the road.


An alternative view Wink .

All the best

Keith
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 19:08 - 09 Oct 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

LukeVFR wrote:
Whosthedaddy wrote:
Half-lyfe, end of.

What's he got to do with anything? Confused

Anyway, as G said really... My VFR had the oil pick-up at the front so I was always worried about wheelieing that.


With good reason, as I had to chop & change the cam followers between yours and Graham's cylinder heads to get a useable set. They weren't the worst I'd seen but did seem to have suffered a bit from lack of lubrictaion.
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