Upgrading to a Lithium battery

[Fat Angry Scotsman]

OK seen a lot of people on here are knowledgable on batteries. If I wanted to upgrade my current lead acid battery to a lithium one, it is as simple as swapping out one for a comparable size to fit the recess and the same voltage?

Here's my current battery:

https://bs-battery.com/product/bt12-10z-sla/
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PRESENT: 2018 BMW S1000XR SE Sport.
PAST: 2009 Kawasaki ER-6F. 2021 Zontes ZT-125U.

[ThunderGuts]

Obvious question: why? Lead acid batteries are used because they’re very tolerant of heavy currents, lots of charge cycles etc - I imagine if lithium batteries were as well suited for the application they’d be seen more often? Unless they are and I’m just ignorant (possible).
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TG.

[xX-Alex-Xx]

Unless you’re running a race bike trying to save every bit of weight possible, I don’t see the point TBH.
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DILLIGAF

[Fat Angry Scotsman]

I thought Li-ion batteries were more forgiving to draining down and being powered back up again compared to lead acid. Seen a thread on here and a couple posts on reddit where people's batteries are dying only after 2 years or after they didn't ride over a winter.

I am a lazy cunt and if simply putting a £30 battery into the bike gives me one less thing to worry about (because I am not going to dick around with trickle chargers or conditioners) then seemed like it might be worthwhile?
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PRESENT: 2018 BMW S1000XR SE Sport.
PAST: 2009 Kawasaki ER-6F. 2021 Zontes ZT-125U.

[ThunderGuts]

I’m not convinced any battery likes full drain discharges. I would also query if the charge current etc is well suited for the bike. If you’re really determined to keep your battery in good condition (and I think you park on the street so can’t plug in an optimate) then you could buy a second lead acid battery and swap them every few weeks, with the one indoors kept conditioned on the optimate?
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TG.

[Fat Angry Scotsman]

[Easy-X]

Lithium Ion batteries totally do not like to be flattened, it damages them to the point of reducing the number of viable recharge cycles.

Where Li-ion does have an advantage is holding a charge for a long time. Some old classic that's a garage queen, only gets taken out every other month would love it. A modern bike however might have a load of parasitic drains (alarm systems, immobilisers, etc.) so one would still need a battery monitor / trickle-charger.

Be aware that any "drop in replacement" must have the relevant circuitry to emulate not only the voltage output of of a lead-acid battery but also the charging characteristics. Overcharged Li-ion batteries fail dramatically

tl;dr Lithium-ion isn't an upgrade it's a specific use-case.
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Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter

[davebike]

I did the change to a lithium some time ago I had on on three different bikes
YES expensive OK no so much for me as a trader
but do work well
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Dave
NC750Xdct + others at work !
davebike1@gmail.com

[jeffyjeff]

When Shorai came out with their first Li-ion batteries, I drank the kool-aid, with disappointing results. I personally would not recommend a Li-ion battery, especially if you have a bike known for electrical gremlins (VFR). A Li-ion battery may work well with a robust charging system, but don't count on it to power your ignition system for long when your charging system takes a shit. The reserve capacity of Li-ion is pitiful (in my experience)
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History shows again and again how nature points out the folly of men - BOC

[xX-Alex-Xx]

[Kawasaki Jimbo]

I’m generally quite happy with lead acid but I’ll consider lithium for the ZX6R next time if, as said before, it drains another battery at several times the rate of the YZF-R1 when the bike isn’t used for a few weeks.

The reason why I think lithium might be better in this case is that I believe they tolerate ‘going flat’ better than lead-acid, * and the in-built monitor/balancer (don’t go cheap) also gives it some over/under-charge protection.

I have a pocket-sized lithium-powered battery booster which spins the starter motor for noticeably longer then the big ol’ lead acid, but when it runs out of steam it just stops, there’s no gradual reduction in power. That ‘all of nothing’ aspect does worry me a bit.

* Stopping the parasitic drain would be a better solution but I cannot find the cause. Let’s not go over all that again.

[Campbell SOUP]

[Kawasaki Jimbo]

[Easy-X]

Lithium-ion batteries shouldn't be directly connected to a charging source. A battery management system should stop charge coming in when the batteries are full, stop discharge when voltage is below a certain level and balance the voltage between cell banks.

The really good BMS controllers even have a communications port to query battery status in detail and set cut-off points for the charge/discharge.

So "shutdown" of charging is separate to that of the discharge.
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Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter

[Nobby the Bastard]

The vast majority of lithium batteries sold with vehicle use in mind have controllers built into them.
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha:"Remember this simple rule - scooters are for men who like to feel the breeze on their huge, flapping cunt lips."
Sprint ST 1050

[Fizzer Thou]

I fitted a lithium battery to my KTM enduro the last time that a standard type GEL decided to not perform to its fullest.The prices from tayna.co.uk were very similar.

Out and about on the bike it does not feel that much lighter due to the lack of weight in the first place.I rarely have the need to have to pick the bike up after an off and similarly when lifting the bike on to a one step stand for maintenance.

But the idea of fitting one to something like the R1 would not really be beneficial as it is almost double the weight of the KTM bike.

My bro-in-law fitted one to his Triumph Tiger and he inadvertently left a sidelight on overnight.We bump started it the next day and it restarted with not too much effort.But under normal cicunstances he would press the electric start button the once to 'wake' the battery up,then press it again but for longer to start the engine.
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Just talk bikes.What else is there?

Always have a 'Plan B'

[Fisty]

I have one in my Hayabusa amd TL1000R. They both work really well, especially in the TLR, it turns over much faster.

I use them with NOKO lithium chargers and have had no issues in the 3 ish years they have been in use.
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Quietly and consistently taking the piss.
TL1000R | Hayabusa | ZXR400 | TL1000S | Bandit 400 V
Fatter and faster than Fret

[arry]

https://youtu.be/3ywopGAXP-I

Worth a watch

[Hong Kong Phooey]

2 x JMT Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries in my bikes, one in the CBR6 has been in 5+ years, and the RC8 has been in about 2.

Plent of cranking amps, has built in charge indicator like on powertools. I went for a higher capacity than recommended, saves about 3-3.5 kg.

No problems, they don't set on fire btw, LiPo batteries of yesteryear maybe, but LiFePo4 battery chemistry is very tolerant. They might bulge out if overcharged, but I've seen lead acid do the same.
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'81 CG125, '97 FZS600 : '99 CBR600F4, '09 KTM RC8

[blurredman]

Is it not true that on older charging systems that a lead acid would be best anyway to accomodate the varying voltage ?

For example on a car- sure it will give an output up to 14.5v with no accessories on, but when you've got the wiper going, the electric rear window defroster, the cabin fan for the front window on full, and lights, then you could be down to 10-10.5v.
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CBT: 12/06/10, Theory: 22/09/10, Module 1: 09/11/10, Module 2: 19/01/11
Past: 1991 Honda CG125BR-J, 1992 (1980) Honda XL125S, 1996 Kawasaki GPZ500S.
Current: 1973 MZ ES250/2 - 17k. , 1979 Suzuki TS185ER - 9k, 1981 Honda CX500B - 91k, 1987 MZ ETZ250 (295cc) - 38k, 1989 MZ ETZ251 - 49k

[Hong Kong Phooey]

Anything pumping out less voltage than the battery is not charging, so the charging system would be inadequate regardless of which battery was attached.

Bikes are a good use case for Lithium. Light weight, battery goes for long periods without charging, can handle more charge cycles, but also doesn't need to run a radio for six hours in a car park with the engine off, while you're waiting for the Mrs to go clothes shopping.

Lithium for cars is a thing, but the capacity of Ah required makes them very expensive, Porsche offer them as an option, for a car going on track taking 10+kg off is worth it to some people.

[Robby]

A lot of this sounds like an imaginary solution to an imaginary problem.

Lead acid batteries are basic and tough. They gradually lose capacity over time, or quite quickly when left discharged for months. So if the bike is left parked over winter, the battery needs a charge once a month or so.

Lithium batteries are much lighter. They can be superior in both capacity, cranking output, and holding a charge for longer, but only if you get a decent one. Seeing as they are still a bit niche, decent typically means expensive. They can fail much faster than a lead acid battery.

If you want the bike just work and be reliable, get a yuasa lead acid battery and replace it after 3 years.

[jeffyjeff]

A nice characteristic of lead-acid batteries is that often they will exhibit symptoms that warn of impending failure, such as slow cranking speed. An added benefit is that they can be tested with inexpensive diagnostic equipment, often free of charge at auto parts or motorcycle parts stores. I hate that the Lithium batteries tend to fail without warning.
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History shows again and again how nature points out the folly of men - BOC