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| hmmmnz |
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hmmmnz
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 Posted: 11:33 - 06 Feb 2009  Post subject: took my top off today (now with vid!!!) |
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well since i have a couple of spare engines, i thought i'd give the top end a going over on the better engine, and if all else fails on the engine that is currently in the bike then ill chuck this one back in and see if i have any better luck
ok, as she sat
https://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g257/hmmmnz/DSCF1937Small.jpg
front cylinder first i think,
https://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g257/hmmmnz/DSCF1938Small.jpg
ok cams out, vry simple operation, took a wee bit of time (half an hour) just taking every thing of in a methodical way that would be easy to re-assemble again
https://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g257/hmmmnz/DSCF1939Small.jpg
good thing about the engine is onecs the cams and what not are out, there is just 2 bolts and the top comes straight off
https://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g257/hmmmnz/DSCF1941Small.jpg
immmm thats a f@%k load of carbon, what about the valves???
https://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g257/hmmmnz/DSCF1942Small.jpg
bugger me well there was about 1mm of baked on carbon on the valves ect, and more than that on the piston & after a wee clean up (about 1 hour)
https://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g257/hmmmnz/DSCF1945Small.jpg
nice aye, while im at it i may as well try and get some of the carbon out of the exhaust port
https://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g257/hmmmnz/DSCF1947Small.jpg
umm nice , and after a clean up. you can also see the valves on this one, since i forgot to take a pic of the cleane up valves
https://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g257/hmmmnz/DSCF1949Small.jpg
all back together and start on the rear cylinder.. i reused the head gasket, as both were in perfect condition, which is always a bonus
here is the rear cylinder valves
https://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g257/hmmmnz/DSCF1950Small.jpg
and piston
https://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g257/hmmmnz/DSCF1952Small.jpg
it looks bad, but the rear cylinder was miles cleaner than the front. 
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the humans are dead
I kick arse for the lord
Wiring Diagrams BIDNIP it bitches
Last edited by hmmmnz on 03:51 - 09 Feb 2009; edited 1 time in total |
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| BanditsHigh |
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BanditsHigh
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Posted: 12:18 - 06 Feb 2009  Post subject: |
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Lookin good  |
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| hmmmnz |
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hmmmnz
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virus
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| mattsprattuk |
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mattsprattuk
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| Posted: 12:52 - 06 Feb 2009 Post subject: |
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doesnt look like you re-lapped the valves... did you?
also, you shouldnt really re-use any gasket, especially a head gasket, no matter how good it looks, as the whole point is that they compress. i would be very suprised if you didnt get coolant leaking places, like into oil passages.
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Blue_SV650S wrote: it was a sh1te wheelie, but it proves that he can get it up in 3rd and can do angles. In summery, mattsprattuk is a gobby little sh1tebag, dopehead tw4t, but sadly for all of us, he probably isn't THAT full of sh1te!! 
Kickstart wrote: Hi I tend to agree with Matt. All the best Keith
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| hmmmnz |
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hmmmnz
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| Posted: 13:08 - 06 Feb 2009 Post subject: |
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| mattsprattuk wrote: | doesnt look like you re-lapped the valves... did you?
also, you shouldnt really re-use any gasket, especially a head gasket, no matter how good it looks, as the whole point is that they compress. i would be very suprised if you didnt get coolant leaking places, like into oil passages. |
i pulled the valves out, but they were all but 1 within spec,
im uite surprised about that (although that engine has only done 25000 km) fuck know why it was so carboned up,
as for the headgasket, its steel and very thin and has no compression marks from before, if it had been copper i would have replaced.
if it does leak, its not a big deal, its only a half hour job to replace
i havnt done a propper compression test, im waiting on a tester to turn up in the post,
the bugger about the engine is that to get the piston out to replace rings ect, you have to go in from the underside, and remove the oil pump and all that to get to the crank, then undo the conrod and remove head and then slide the whole piston and conrod out through the top.
bit of an odd design i think,
may be im to used to smokeys 
a piston and ring change is a 15min job
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| mattsprattuk |
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mattsprattuk
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| Posted: 13:13 - 06 Feb 2009 Post subject: |
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yeah, but are they lapped in? becausue you wont get any compression if they arent.
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Blue_SV650S wrote: it was a sh1te wheelie, but it proves that he can get it up in 3rd and can do angles. In summery, mattsprattuk is a gobby little sh1tebag, dopehead tw4t, but sadly for all of us, he probably isn't THAT full of sh1te!!
Kickstart wrote: Hi I tend to agree with Matt. All the best Keith
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| kat250 |
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kat250
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virus
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| Posted: 13:23 - 06 Feb 2009 Post subject: |
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| hmmmnz wrote: | | mattsprattuk wrote: | doesnt look like you re-lapped the valves... did you?
also, you shouldnt really re-use any gasket, especially a head gasket, no matter how good it looks, as the whole point is that they compress. i would be very suprised if you didnt get coolant leaking places, like into oil passages. |
i pulled the valves out, but they were all but 1 within spec,
im uite surprised about that (although that engine has only done 25000 km) fuck know why it was so carboned up,
as for the headgasket, its steel and very thin and has no compression marks from before, if it had been copper i would have replaced.
if it does leak, its not a big deal, its only a half hour job to replace
i havnt done a propper compression test, im waiting on a tester to turn up in the post,
the bugger about the engine is that to get the piston out to replace rings ect, you have to go in from the underside, and remove the oil pump and all that to get to the crank, then undo the conrod and remove head and then slide the whole piston and conrod out through the top.
bit of an odd design i think,
may be im to used to smokeys
a piston and ring change is a 15min job |
That sounds really bizzare, are the barrels not removable?
Ive heard people using that method before, but only because it makes getting the piston rings in easier.
Cheers
John
____________________
own: 81 xs1100g...
owned: 85 rat CG (sold), 91 GS500e (stolen), 84 gsx400f (scrapped), 81 z250 (siezed, siezed, scrapped), 83 cb250rs (sold), 84 gpz750r ratfighter (killed) 84gpz400 (sold), '80 cb650 ratfighter (wrote off) 95gsx6/12f ratfighter (killed) 91 xj900 (sold)
stinkwheel Well I just had my hands up a pigs fanny. Which makes your concerns pale into insignificance. |
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Kickstart
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| hmmmnz |
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hmmmnz
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| Posted: 13:31 - 06 Feb 2009 Post subject: |
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nah can't remove the barrell at all its all one unit right from the top of the bore all the way down to the crank,
lapping, if you mean putting paste on the end of the valve and spinning it in its seat, then yes to the 1 valve that was looking a bit rough, but no to the other 7,
are you trying to teach your granny how to suck eggs???
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ms51ves3
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virus
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| Posted: 16:28 - 06 Feb 2009 Post subject: |
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| Kickstart wrote: |
Pretty common kind of idea, building the engine with the barrels cast as part of the top half of the crankcases. CBR600s have done it since the early 1990s for example. Probably saves a couple of quid in initial build costs. Pretty much standard for cars for decades.
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Bloody hell, thats a terrible idea, but I suppose when they are making bikes brand new they dont expect people to wear out bores/need to rebuild the engine.
Cheers
John
____________________
own: 81 xs1100g...
owned: 85 rat CG (sold), 91 GS500e (stolen), 84 gsx400f (scrapped), 81 z250 (siezed, siezed, scrapped), 83 cb250rs (sold), 84 gpz750r ratfighter (killed) 84gpz400 (sold), '80 cb650 ratfighter (wrote off) 95gsx6/12f ratfighter (killed) 91 xj900 (sold)
stinkwheel Well I just had my hands up a pigs fanny. Which makes your concerns pale into insignificance. |
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| mattsprattuk |
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mattsprattuk
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| Posted: 17:04 - 06 Feb 2009 Post subject: |
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loads of engines are built this way. for example, the paxman V6, V8 and V12's are all like this. it makes it a cunt on engines that size, bit its no biggie on an engine the size of yours.
on a paxman, the pistons are the size of your head, conrods that weigh about 15kg each, and bastard bearing shells that just dont stay put... not to mention the access points that you can only just fit your arm in, and if you drop your tool, you're fishing around in a sump of oil for 5 minutes.
whereas on this it can just be pushed up with the bigends removed. just be careful with the rings on the way back in.
what im trying to say... some engines are a lot harder to work on 
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Blue_SV650S wrote: it was a sh1te wheelie, but it proves that he can get it up in 3rd and can do angles. In summery, mattsprattuk is a gobby little sh1tebag, dopehead tw4t, but sadly for all of us, he probably isn't THAT full of sh1te!!
Kickstart wrote: Hi I tend to agree with Matt. All the best Keith
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| Xenocide |
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Xenocide
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| Posted: 18:34 - 06 Feb 2009 Post subject: |
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| mattsprattuk wrote: | loads of engines are built this way. for example, the paxman V6, V8 and V12's are all like this. it makes it a cunt on engines that size, bit its no biggie on an engine the size of yours.
on a paxman, the pistons are the size of your head, conrods that weigh about 15kg each, and bastard bearing shells that just dont stay put... not to mention the access points that you can only just fit your arm in, and if you drop your tool, you're fishing around in a sump of oil for 5 minutes.
whereas on this it can just be pushed up with the bigends removed. just be careful with the rings on the way back in.
what im trying to say... some engines are a lot harder to work on |
Loco engines?
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mattsprattuk
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| Posted: 18:37 - 06 Feb 2009 Post subject: |
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| Xenocide wrote: | | mattsprattuk wrote: | loads of engines are built this way. for example, the paxman V6, V8 and V12's are all like this. it makes it a cunt on engines that size, bit its no biggie on an engine the size of yours.
on a paxman, the pistons are the size of your head, conrods that weigh about 15kg each, and bastard bearing shells that just dont stay put... not to mention the access points that you can only just fit your arm in, and if you drop your tool, you're fishing around in a sump of oil for 5 minutes.
whereas on this it can just be pushed up with the bigends removed. just be careful with the rings on the way back in.
what im trying to say... some engines are a lot harder to work on |
Loco engines? |
yup
____________________
Blue_SV650S wrote: it was a sh1te wheelie, but it proves that he can get it up in 3rd and can do angles. In summery, mattsprattuk is a gobby little sh1tebag, dopehead tw4t, but sadly for all of us, he probably isn't THAT full of sh1te!!
Kickstart wrote: Hi I tend to agree with Matt. All the best Keith
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Kickstart
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| stevo as b4 |
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stevo as b4
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| Posted: 22:32 - 06 Feb 2009 Post subject: |
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Casting the block into the top half of the crank case always makes for a more rigid engine too! If it's stronger and more resistant to cases flexing etc, then the engine can be built lighter and not lose any strength. In some IL4 car engine's they go further, to copy the motorcycle lower crankcase design, and thus they make a large single crank bearing ladder, that bolts right through the upper crank case/cylinder block into the head, with long studs or bolts. This idea is very much like how some bike engines have been built, and it keeps the whole engine in tension better than separate, fixings to hold the head down, and to bolt the main bearing caps in.
In some ways alot of 2 stroke engines would have done well to have the top half of the crank case and the barrels as all one unit. It's not so good for quick strip downs and re-building, but i'd rarther have a strong engine that is a bit of a tough bastard, and able to cope better with overheating and abuse.
At least most bike engine's have either plated bores, or dry liners fitted into the block. The worst thing to have IMO is wet liners when combined with an open deck block design, as it's just crap! |
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hmmmnz
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400bandit
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RS2MATRIX
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Posted: 18:31 - 07 Feb 2009  Post subject: |
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tell me what bike that goes in and you have a valid point 
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400bandit
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hmmmnz
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hmmmnz
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| Posted: 00:58 - 08 Feb 2009 Post subject: |
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| 400bandit wrote: | My bros needs some TLC, I think i might whip the heaps off over easter when I can use a garage. Looks a similar set up to my engine (I believe the NT650 is based on the VT500?)
Just a quick question, after a week of not riding/sitting outside, the front cylinder has decided it no longer wants to play ball. It's only running on the rear cylinder. I guessing it's a combination of cold and wet. I need to get my hands on a plug spanner to test for spark (tried loads and none will get them out, need a genuin honda bros one)
Joe |
the plugs are 18mm which is a pain in the arse, as its not the usual plug size, normally they are really small 16mm or large 22mm
and every socket set always misses the 18mm out
i managed to get one from my local parts store, i think halfords sell them if i remember rightly,
as for not running, spray wd40 over the leads coil and all the wiring, i bet ya it starts after that its magic stuff.
edit, before i put the engine back in the frame, i decided while it was free of oil ect that i'd whip off the sump
https://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g257/hmmmnz/DSCF1957Small.jpg
on this picture you can see the bottom of the 2 conrods
https://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g257/hmmmnz/DSCF1959Small.jpg
and here is my exhaust all sanded back and repainted
https://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g257/hmmmnz/DSCF1960Small.jpg
gotta love nz for not salting its roads, 23 year old bike 74,000km
and not one rust hole in the exhaust
charging the battery at the moment, i have got the engine back into the frame, with a little help from my girlfriend (much to her digust at touching a greesy oily bike hehe)
hopefully it'll start, but this engine is the one that was originally removed from the bike because it wasn't running, im not holding out too much hope, as all i have effectivly done is cleaned the piston and valves,
no love lost if it doesnt start, i sapose ill get new conrod journels
and possibly rings,
depending on he condition of the top end roller bearing i may have to replace the con rod and that bearing as well,
who knows??? do you?? i don't 
i will keep you smelly bcf'ers posted
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the humans are dead
I kick arse for the lord
Wiring Diagrams BIDNIP it bitches |
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