Honda NSR 125 tops at 130km/h with Jollymoto exhaust - why?

[Nsr'o 125]

Good Afternoon everyone!

My name is Eivind and I am a mod at the norwegian forum www.mopedportalen.com. I am one of the guys that knows more about the Honda NSR than others.

First of all I want to notify that there might be some spelling errors, or mis-understood names because I dont know all the words in English.

And now, I have come to a point where I myself cannot find the answer! Therefore I hope one of you guys, from the outside world has some information that might help me

My bike is a 1997 Honda NSR 125 with an 02 NSR engine. I bought the new engine because of the crank, the connection rod had been grounded down.

My bike does not reach over about 130km/h, which would probably be about 80mp/h (75mph is 120kmh). It wont let me go further than 9000 rpm in the 6. gear.
The gears are 14_36. The main jet is #138 so the Jet/nozzle should not be problem.

I have a Jollymoto Exhaust and Fullpower CDI unit and Fullpower RC valve / Exhaustvalve box. But I dont think these work properly. I cannot go further than 10500 RPM, it should go to about 12000 with the FP cdi (Ci396 or Ci626, cannot really remember which).

So I'm guessing there is something wrong with the electrical wiring, maybe the 97 electrics is not fully compatible with the 02 engine?

I am also wondering if the exhaustvalves / RC valves works 100%. I changed them from my old cylinder because the ones from the 02 engine looked rather weak and poor, they had also been grounded down a little from the exhaustvalve shaft. I also changed the shaft.

I wonder if they open properly, because the old ones did not.
Look at this video to check:
https://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa236/eivindlod/th_MOV00467.jpg

It seems okey, the RPM kick in about 7k RPM is alright

I look forward to hearing fro you guys, and I really hope there is someone out there that can help.

Yeah, and btw, some other people also have the same problem with their bikes with "standard" engines
____________________
97 Honda NSR 125 Grey/Orange/brown - 02 engine powered by Jollymoto, FP CDI, TV-78
, 14_36 - Imported from Netherland/Holland

[alains]

download my file https://www.geneva-racing.ch/~alains/NSRtips.doc
check your valves sequence (bottom page 9) watch precisely the valves openning range 6500-7500 RPM
also which CDI have you got CI639 or CI626 (CI626A is not good)
fit carbon reeds and NGK BR9EIX sparkplug
if you have further questions you can pm as you like
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the worst day fishing is better than the best day working

[Nsr'o 125]

Thanks for answering Alains, I've actually heard about you, and of course read about you in that document

Its kind of hard for me to check the valves opening range since things are so cramped/tight in the engine area, I guess you know that cause it seems like you've got lots of experience with this bike.

This is how it looks:
https://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa236/eivindlod/DSC00469.jpg
https://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa236/eivindlod/DSC00470.jpg
https://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa236/eivindlod/DSC00475.jpg

Its rather difficult to access the 8mm bolts there and open the cover without dismounting a lot of other parts.

And whats funny about the CDI is that with my "old" engine, the 97 mod engine and jollymoto i could go up to 12500 rpm, but with the new one i cant. It is a Fullpower CDI, which I guess is the Ci626. Are there any other kinds of CDI's than the Ci396 and the Ci626?.
I cant see why this should be the engines fault, therefore i expect there to be something wrong with the electrics on the bike.
Theres a bad connection on this spot (see pic) which leads to no electrics at all, its just like when the fuses are dead. When I twist and press litt on the cabel it works again.
https://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa236/eivindlod/ledningsnett.jpg

Should this "restriction" be put back in to get a better flow of the fuel or should I leave it as it is? I dont have it mounted.
https://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa236/eivindlod/DSC00479.jpg
https://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa236/eivindlod/DSC00480.jpg


What good would the BR9EIX spark plug give me? Would it give a better spark and make the engine work smoother? Will it help at all with just the jollymoto?

Thank you!
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97 Honda NSR 125 Grey/Orange/brown - 02 engine powered by Jollymoto, FP CDI, TV-78
, 14_36 - Imported from Netherland/Holland

[alains]

the white plastic block is not a restrictor , it's a guide avoiding turbulences for the mixture coming in from a round section and going to a square section . the timming of the valves is esay to control : lift up the tank on its stand then watch how the pulley on the right react . the pulley has a little arrox at its base and the tray has 2 marks HI & LO , look where goes the arrow and at which RPM
look the pict for the pulley (rounded red)
by the way coming on the pulley you see 2 cables : one with an adjuster and one nude . do yours are placed exactly like these ?
also when you talk about electronics be very precise ! to precise read and write down what is written on it , because things change with these writing . so , inspect your boxes (CDI & RC/valves control unit) and note what is writing on
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the worst day fishing is better than the best day working

[Nsr'o 125]

Hi

Okei, I've but back in the plastic block in the reed.
The pully is on "HI". I've taken som pics and my wires are placed completely opposite than yours. What do you think?

https://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa236/eivindlod/DSC00486.jpg
https://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa236/eivindlod/DSC00488.jpg
https://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa236/eivindlod/DSC00490.jpg



I have not checked when it opens, because I have not found time for it, but I will do it tomorrow. I will also check the letters on the CDI and the Tv-78.
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97 Honda NSR 125 Grey/Orange/brown - 02 engine powered by Jollymoto, FP CDI, TV-78
, 14_36 - Imported from Netherland/Holland

[alains]

it's normal because my pict shows a french import (in fact the owner is finnish) and your's suppose to be UK model . the TV-78 is perfect , what writing on your CDI ?
if your cables were in wrong position you wont be able to get more than 55 mph . you can make a test to see if your timming is OK
- have a run and note your max RPM in 4,5 & 6th gear
- back home unplug your servo-motor (the 4 wires connector with white,black/white,green/blue,red/white)
- with multipliers catch your servo pulley and turn it as far as possible to get the valves open
- have an other run and note your max rpm in 4,5 & 6th gear (it doesnot matter if it's a bit scrappier to get the power
we shall see the result
____________________
the worst day fishing is better than the best day working

[Nsr'o 125]

Without doing anything with the servo/RC control
-4. gear - 10500 rpm
-5. gear - 10300 rpm
-6. gear - 9000-9100 rpm
This is about 127km/h!

And then I put the bike in Neutral, and throttled up to maximum RPM and then turned off the bike. Not sure if I managed to open the valves 95-100% but I got close!

I couldnt turn the pulley with my bare hands so I had to get some help from the engine.
When I had done that I tried the bike, and I got a bigger RPM kick, and could go up to 11000 rpm on all the gears, except 6th.

In 6. it wont go over 9000-9100 rpm. It just stays at the same speed (127kmh), no matter if its in a downhill or not.

I'll maybe get some help from a buddy, cause he's got some proper tools and he's got muscles So maybe we will manage to open the valves completely.

And yeah, maybe there is something wrong with the tv-78. Because I had to fix it some months ago. The chain had ripped off some wires, but it worked after I fixed it, and it worked like hell when I had the 97 engine
https://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa236/eivindlod/Honda%20NSR/IMG_1015.jpg
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97 Honda NSR 125 Grey/Orange/brown - 02 engine powered by Jollymoto, FP CDI, TV-78
, 14_36 - Imported from Netherland/Holland

[alains]

can you tell (precisely) how many tooth on your sprockets (front & rear)
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the worst day fishing is better than the best day working

[Nsr'o 125]

Front - 14
Rear - 36

Other people can do 150-155 with the same gears. Im guessing the electrics is the problem, maybe the electric wiring (everything) from 97 kind of "blocks" the 02 engine from delivering maximum power.

Maybe I should try with another CDI?
____________________
97 Honda NSR 125 Grey/Orange/brown - 02 engine powered by Jollymoto, FP CDI, TV-78
, 14_36 - Imported from Netherland/Holland

[alains]

if you CDI is CI626 (not CI626A) you have the best otherwise you may buy a CI626 but carefull the CI626A is bull shit ! i saw one on auction here https://cgi.ebay.co.uk/HONDA-NSR125-R-NSR-125-CDI-IGNITION-IGNITOR-BOX-2002_W0QQitemZ260247910816QQihZ016QQcategoryZ10460QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
i sent him a mail 3 days ago to ask what was written on it and i have no answer yet . if you're going to buy it i suggest you ask the same question , may be you'll get an answer
____________________
the worst day fishing is better than the best day working

[Kickstart]

[Nsr'o 125]

Alains:
I cant remember what nr is on my CDI but I remember that its the FullPower one. Isnt Ci639 the standard one? I'll maybe try with a standard one.

[Kickstart]

Hi

Whether changing the gearing like that helps will depend on why it ish't revving out. To me it sounds like it is just down on power, rather than not revving out due to an ignition cutout in the higher gears. Down to a 12 tooth front would lower the gearing so much that you would go even slower.

UK spec bikes were 12hp. Main restrictions were the intake plate (in your photo) and a restrictive pipe in the front of the exhaust pipe.

Have you swapped the ignition from your orginal 1997 engine onto your 2002 engine?

All the best

Keith
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Traxpics, track day and racing photographs - Bimota Forum - Bike performance / thrust graphs for choosing gearing

[Nsr'o 125]

[Kickstart]

Hi

Lower gearing could help on acceleration, but it will depend on the gear ratios and how the power drops off. It would be quite possible to land up with worse acceleration. Much of the time you could just use a lower gear, while in 1st gear you are probably not having a chance to use full throttle anyway.

If you have a dyno graph for the bike then try-

https://www.bikegraph.co.uk/TorqueGraphs.php

With that you can play around and see the effects of changing the sprockets.

I would be inclined to check the ignition timing carefully. It is possible (Alains might know) that Honda changed the ignition slightly between the 2 years, maybe putting the locating woodruff key in a slightly different position. Also can happen that the woodruff key has sheared off and allowed the ignition timing to move. Probably not likely but it should be an easy thing to check.

All the best

Keith
____________________
Traxpics, track day and racing photographs - Bimota Forum - Bike performance / thrust graphs for choosing gearing

[alains]

i understood what keith said . unfortunatly you cant move the woodroff and also the impulse coil . i know some mates who have done that , i will make you a tuttorial to do it . in fact it's possible to change the initial advance timming by about 3 degrees but as the coil holder is not adjustable , you must do some DIY on it , it's not a big job but it's precise .
other question what power jet is inside ?
did you try a BR9EIX plug ?
order carbone membranes here
https://cgi.ebay.de/Carbon-Membrane-Tuning-Honda-NSR-125-CRE-CRM-CR-R-036_W0QQitemZ120246636479QQihZ002QQcategoryZ96384QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262
easy they work with paypal
____________________
the worst day fishing is better than the best day working

[Kickstart]

[alains]

no keith but it's possible to move the impulse coil 3° clockwise or anticlockwise by filing the holder but i dont know where to file & how much to take down , so i put a pm to the member who has done that and we know that the result is a better torque at 10000 rpm
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the worst day fishing is better than the best day working

[bladerunner]

Alains. On the RGV250's we tend to use fzr400 modified wood ruff keys that have been filed down by 1mm to give an extra 4degrees of advance,

after all the woodruff key is only used to align the flywheel it is not under any load as the taper is what holds it in place . might be easier to do on the NSR as well after all if it does not work with your engine set up you can put it back to normal for one euro!! For the rewards it is well worth trying.

Hope this helps
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Current bikes...cbr929, KDX200's, Rd125lc mk2, RGV250's

[Nsr'o 125]

[Kickstart]

[alains]

be patient , my mate is writing the tutorial and i will translate for you . plugs here https://www.sparkplugs.co.uk
your slow jet (idle) should be 42 and the power jet 70 (instead of 55)
____________________
the worst day fishing is better than the best day working

[alains]

thanks to my friend jessymach i can show you how to
https://www.geneva-racing.ch/~alains/timingcoil.pdf
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the worst day fishing is better than the best day working

[simsimma]

So if i change the sparkplug on my 93 nsr to a ngk br9 e1x it will go faster or do ya need to change exhausted aswell. i been watching this post for a while and my bike dose the same but it is restricked i had a go of taking the intake plate off the front of carb but revs suck at 9000 all the time so put plate back on and now 80mph about it

[alains]

what are you doing ?????????
this plate is a restrictor ! inside the reed block it's a plastic block , this may stay in (it's a guide for intake gas)
as soon as you take off the restrictor you need to upjet the carb by replacing main jet 132 by 138, slow jet 38 by 42 , power jet 55 by 65 all avaiable at https://www.dellorto.co.uk (£12 all inc.)
download my file to see where they are situated (page 6 bottom)
https://www.geneva-racing.ch/~alains/NSRtips.doc
to ease the intake i recomand to fit carbon petals on the reed block
https://cgi.ebay.de/Carbon-Membrane-Tuning-Honda-NSR-125-CRE-CRM-CR-R-036_W0QQitemZ120246636479QQihZ002QQcategoryZ96384QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262
they accept paypal
to improve ignition rate fit a BR9EIX https://www.sparkplugs.co.uk
____________________
the worst day fishing is better than the best day working