Think I have bought a bad un

[robocog]

Ok been looking for a while for a semi classic 70's CB250 or thereabouts as a first bike

Found a '76 CJ250 locally (ish) put my bids in and got lucky so went and hired a van with plank and string
No V5, not a big deal to apply for one
Only found out 'on the day' that the key could also not be found
(again, the guy had some Honda keys but none seemed to operate any of the locks)
No alarm bells were ringing yet as the guy seemed honest and decent enough

Got the bike home and took the obligatory photo of SWMBO making vrooom vroom noises after the intial "WTF have you done!" lecture

https://www.robocog.dyndns.org/mrsgoingvroom.JPG

Ok so bike gets a bit of a look over, can't get it to spark without a key so I decide that I could at least get the front brake working
Stripped the brake caliper down and got it all free and working (after snapping bleed nipple just flush, followed by an easy out again just flush with caliper and solved by welding a nut onto remnants)
Decided that now would be a good time to remove the ignition switch to get a key cut
In removing the clocks to get to the keyswitch I noticed that the headtube, where the frame number is stamped looked "odd"
Sure enough dead obvious that the numbers are home stamped and the original had been amateurishly ground off
The number does match the stamped plate that is riveted to the downtube...hmm
Decided making a note of engine number would be good to do
Ooops its not a 250 but is a 360cc
The last TAX disk is present and it does say 250cc, but the disk was issued in 1999
I looked up the TAX on the DVLA site and it came back as a different colour

(OK so it could have received a new engine and been (badly) re-sprayed since then...it was a long time ago)

I work in a car breakers and did a vin check and its not coming back as stolen, but then I guess the number that has replaced the original wouldn't!
It also came back as yet another colour!!

Any advice as to the way forward to make sure its going to be allowed back on the roads without a comeback?
Is it the Poilice who will need to investigate or DVLA?
Does anyone know if the Police / DVLA will come out and check it? as I certainly cannot afford to transport it again if its just going to be crushed or whatever

Have emailed the seller to say come and pick the bike up and give me my money back, but part of me wonders if i'm beng hasty and all is not lost and that the whole mess can be de-tangled and the bike legitimised without having to put in for IVA and being chucked on a Q plate

Regards
Rob
[/img]

[Paulington]

Bit suspicious really.

I'd just do what you did and ask the seller to return to pick it up and give your cash back, would probably save a lot of hassle unless you are quite attached to the bike already.
____________________
"Four wheels move the body, two wheels move the soul."
Current Vehicles: '89 Kawasaki KDX200, '99 Yamaha XV535, '00 Honda ST1100 Pan-European, '08 Suzuki GSX-R1000, '08 Mitsubishi Lancer GS4 2.0 TDCi, '15 BMW 1 Series 116d Sport Turbo.
CBT: 27/08/08. Theory: 04/09/09. Module 1: 16/09/09. Module 2: 01/10/09.

[robocog]

Ok the full story he gave at the time of buying from him
Bike was bought at autojumble as part of a lot some 3 years ago ish and it very nearly ran, but battery died
He was going to let his son get it up and running, but he lost interest

Bloke is an avid Z man and had a real nice collection of Z1000's that looked like they just came from a showroom, which he gladly showed me round so I know he is an ethusiast rather than some pikey that did some bad back in the 90's
So I guess its not the blokes fault completely, but I did want a 250 not 360 and was only a 2 second job to find out that it wasn't a 250 for a complete novice such as myself (and my poxy excuse for not looking harder at the time of purchase...the excitement and overtrust of buying a first bike from a "fellow biker"?)
Also I'm not accusing the seller of having tampered with the chassis number

I am kind of quite attached to the bike as it has already tested my engineering skills and I seemingly have conquered some stuff in seconds that would have otherwise caused a lot of swearing and wasted days deliberating over before giving it "an expert" to sort out

Part of me really wants to get it at least running, kind of like a personal challenge (which is why I chose a nice and old/simple bike as a first), but again if its never going to be allowed on the road again, nor sell it on as either a complete bike or bits, its going to be a complete waste of time effort and money

I guess I may never hear back from the guy (but would kind of point the finger that he was aware that all was not as it seemed)

caveat emptor and all that

Regards
Rob

[Ichy]

Not quick, but simple. Apply for the V5 from the DVLA. Any problems and they would be more than happy to tell you. At that point you take the letter to the bloke and tell him to give your money back.

I've owned a bike for 4 years that has no frame number stamped on it, never had a problem. in your case the original owner probably replaced the frame with one from the breakers and just stamped it with the old frames numbers to save him the hassle of explaining to the DVLA. Did you take the capacity from the info on the frame or did you actually check what the engine was marked up as?
____________________
https://www.metacafe.com/watch/1972097/how_to_behave_on_a_forum/

[robocog]

Ok so assuming I can get a V5 -based on numberplate and the vin that is stamed on frame - all is OK legally and nothing to worry about?

I would have thought any pull I get may not be straightforward as soon as they look at the headstock, unless I can get proof that it has been inspected and that there was some genuine innocent reason it had been attacked with an angry grinder and some wonky numbers and letters stamped in?
(or am I just being paranoid?)

Frame clearly stamped CJ250, engine stamp on block clearly stamped CB360E so assuming if the block says 360 then that is the cc...unless its just the casing that is from a 360 and the internals are from a 250?

DVLA tax site states it was taxed as a 250cc
the HPI etc checks that came back also state it is on their databases, but as a 250cc

I have changed engines in cars before and its never been a hassle, so that bit doesn't worry me as far as paperwork is concerned, it just peed me off as I wanted a 250cc
I assume that I will now need to take a DAS if I want to ride the 360? where I was only planning on doing the A1

Regards
Rob

[The Disapproving Brit]

Not necessarily. Get it dyno'd, there's a good chance that if the engine's knocking on a bit, enough horses have escaped to take it to less than 33bhp anyway.

Edit: of course, this does rely on you getting the bike running enough to dyno it.
____________________
Current Bikes: 1983 Honda VF400FD / 2003 Honda VT750 Shadow
Bike Test Passed 18/03/09, Car Test Passed 14/05/13

[.Chris.]

I'd be pretty pleased it's the 360 not the 250! The 360 will probably be about right for the 33bhp limit whereas the 250 is some way under.
____________________
Chris
1985 Kawasaki Z550F

[Pie-Roe]

[Ichy]

I think your making a big thing of nothing.

For all intents and purpose the bike has been register as a 250 and, since it was taxed, used on the road. Just apply for the log book and see what it says. In 20 odd years the police have never checked the headstock on any of my bikes.
____________________
https://www.metacafe.com/watch/1972097/how_to_behave_on_a_forum/

[robocog]

Ok yes I can get paranoid now and again

Got it running today on 1 1/2 cylinders
Carbs are going to need a better clean than just a blow out as it was definately runing lean on one bank
a bit of choke or hand over the offending carb mouth makes her speed up and fire on both..yay!

I feel its been a massive acheivement as its potentially the first time it has run under its own steam for almost a decade
(only round the back garden mind!)

Loads of bulbs are out, battery is well past it and 1 fork leg is leaking, but beyond that most of it seems to be working now

Going to apply for the V5 and see what comes back
Will then have to modify the V5 that arrives with new engine detail s and colour as the V62- application for a vehicle registration certificate has no where to fill these new details in at the time of application

Also need to look into getting my licence now

If I have good news on the bike and it doesn't cost a fotune to get it MOT'd I may take the DAS if theres enough money left in the pot

Hopefully we will make it before summer is out

Regards
Rob