Dodgy upper back - how to fix, etc?

[G]

Ok, I've been making a reasonable amount of effort to go the gym recently.
However much I try to make sure I'm doing everything 'properly' I seem to be getting some upper back pain - mostly from doing the sort of exercises that are meant to help, I suspect!

Pain is near the top of my back/lower neck/shoulders.
Don't notice it while doing it, but do the day after or later - when trying to get to sleep etc.

I've been making a point of using fairly light weights with high reps to try and not stress anything too much.

Any suggestions on exercises, stretches or anything else to do to try and help?

[Sparks!]

What exercises are you doing?
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[G]

Not sure on all the technical terms but a reasonable range of 'standard' ones, using dumbbells/wires mostly.
So, for one's like to affect it: Bench Press/Row, Shoulder press/Lat Pull down, Curls/reverse curls. Also a few more when I get around to it.
However I think that's all that I did yesterday on the upper body.

I left off doing any thing last week and it seemed to calm down mostly, though a bit worse from that after doing a decent amount of bumpy enduro riding on Sunday.
Was more noticeably worse after going to the gym Yesterday evening.

[Howling TerrorOutOfOffice]

Hi G, are you new to excercising? (straight question) As even a short layoff from regular workout will make the fittest person ache and sore. As long as you've not damaged anything i'd suggest doing 1/2 the amount of gym time then build up when your body allows it.

Pat
A hot bath and light massage won't fix it, but it really really helps
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[The Shaggy D.A.]

There's some posture related exercises that might help. The first is to imagine that your weight is supported by a piece of string attached to the crown of your head, which is then pulled up. This should have the effect of bringing your chin in. Keep that pose.

Then, hold your hands out in front of you, palms up, elbows bent 90 degrees like you're holding a tray. Slowly move each hand outwards, keeping the elbows bent and forearms parallel to the floor. You should feel like your shoulder blades are trying to touch each other. Hold as long as is comfortable, and do it as often as you can remember to.
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[G]

Yes and no for new to exercising. Have done stuff on and off for ages, but hadn't done much for a while before the beggining of the year. Was particularly bad towards the end of last year with a new job (no more cycling to work and lots of busyness.)
However, I'm far from 'pushing' myself goes. I've been 2 x 20 reps of light weights to try and get myself into it. Suppose it's worth giving a go just doing 1 x 20 reps and see if that helps.

[Sparks!]

I'm no expert, but could be down to a weak "core" I have/had similar problems with my lower back, I don't know if upper back is affected by core strength as much as lower but someone who knows more than me will prob correct me if I'm wrong.

I stuck to compound moves like Squats and deadlifts and now my back is a lot stronger than it used to be. Took ages before I could even squat with light weights so maybe start with bodyweight stuff to avoid hurting your back.

Takes some time to build up but it's worth it, although I still have a long way to go.

Worth a note anyway I don't know if it wil help upper back but worth a shot.
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[Speedy3]

99% sure it will be lactic acid..

you just need to stretch before/after

and do some light cardio at end of a routine just to loosen your body up and remove any lactic acid build up

try a cross trainer for 5-10mins at a low resistance
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[MinhDinh]

If you do the exercises enough, you should get use to the pain. Depends how foten and how long you have been doing it for.
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[mr jamez]

What sort of pain is it?

Providing its a dull ache in the muscle then it sounds perfectly normal to me. I find doing weight training that if it hurts whilst you're doing it then STOP as something isn't right. A dull ache one or two days afterwards is perfectly normal, if it doesn't hurt then you're not working hard enough. I did chinups on saturday and I could barely get my bike jacket on monday morning!

Be strict with warming up. For example on bench press I'll start with the bar, then stick 20kg on and do three sets, then stick 40kg on and do two sets and then I'll do my working weight. If you've got an injury you will have to be even more careful.

I started weight training last month to help me fully recover from my off. I got hold of an excellent book (which you could probably borrow for a bit), its a basic guide to strength training using only a barbell and contains none of the dpewl about six packs and 'big guns' It shows how using the big compound lifts that the body is far better being trained as a unit rather than splitting it all up into little bits. Which is great, as rather than arsing about doing 20 exercises I'm doing 6 or 7.

For example you can train your upper back, lats, biceps and forearms with chinups. No need for lat pulldowns, curls and rows then If you really want to hit your back hard you can do pullups as well, not hard to rig up a chinup bar at home.

Though I have no idea what you want to 'achieve' up the gym so the book and all the blabbering may not be of any use to you.

The book is 'starting strength - second edition' by Mark ripptoe.
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[G]

This isn't a dull-ache from general exercise, like I'd definitely notice the day after doing an enduro or similar.
This is perhaps a bit sharper pain, hard to describe but I don't think it's a 'good' pain .

I haven't been lifting much weight at all; ie 10-12kg dumbbells generally, but with more repetitions to make up.

I'm wondering about the lactic acid comments - though I do sometimes do a 'warm down', not always. I always presumed such things were fairly instantly noticeable, while there is quite a delay before I notice mine. However a bit of googling suggests otherwise is possible.

I've got 'access' to a decent range of books, so should be good, though might see if I can acquire that too. However, as I'm using a gym, I do have access to lots of stuff, so may be less appropriate for me. Do actually have a chin up bar Dusty put up years ago in our hall. I once managed to fall from it when putting my feet on the ceiling .

At the moment I'm trying to get a bit more strength while losing weight too; when I've got my weight down some more, will make more of a focus on getting some more muscle; mostly for bike stuff - off roading, racing etc; stronger means you can do more fun things for longer .

[Rowey]

Do you "strain" when doing your work out? Over tensing your neck muscles could be causing the fatigue. But it would be quite easy to hurt your neck just by doing exercises incorrectly. Stuff like having your hands behind your neck doing sit ups, or arching your back can all affect your spine/neck.

A warm down will definitely help your muscles ache less.

Also be careful you are not aggravating a neck injury.
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[G]

I don't really 'strain' much and try to stop doing exercise before I start arching my back - I know to look out for it. However I don't think this is the pain you'd expect from an arching back, which I reckon is generally (from past experience to some degree) lower down.

[Tonka]

I reckon that with your recent return to an exercise regime that it would be worthwhile finding someone to give you a proper Sports Massage. I've had them over the years and they really are just the ticket when you've overdone it and want to make sure all is in order. You may find that post-accident your body has made some adjustments (ligaments) in recovery that mean you are not quite as equal both sides as you were before and that you're tensing muscles to compensate.

The lady that I go to charges £25 for half an hour £35 for an hour (so not too expensive) - it's not a comfortable experience, but certainly to be recommended. You may find that your Physio can do this for you?
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[G]

Note that I was going to the gym once or twice a week on average up until November or so. However, then I was using more 'machines'.

I doubt this is that related to the breaking my leg accident - having to use crutches for a while may have actually made my arms stronger!

I'm a bit iffy about spending all money and a bit sceptical about a lot of physio stuff in general, but will look into it if I can't sort it myself .

[Bendy]

You sure it's the gym and not something to do with posture at your desk? Or a combination of the two? Neck/shoulders/top of back sounds quite 'desky' to me, in fact it sounds like exactly what I get when I don't stop myself from hunching. In fact it was what made me get my eyes tested as it stemmed from me gradually getting my head closer to the screen as the day went on. I'm doing it again and it's pissing me off.

[G]

I don't think it's posture - it was very noticable in starting at the beginning of the January month; which leaves the two options to be the zx9 or the gym, as they were both started then.
It faded last week when I was still riding the ZX9, but not doing the possibly-bad stuff at the gym.
Am in the processes of sorting more upright bikes, in case it's a combination of both.

[Rowey]

Someone already suggested it, but have you thought about some core and lower back exercises? You might want to just start off with some stretching at first, then move onto some muscle toning/building exercises.

I've found after doing them as a regular addition to my exercises, I feel a lot more 'solid'. From exercise, to labour work to even riding the bike. I did get lower back aches often, from lifting boxes at work all day, but they quickly went after incorporating core and lower back exercises.
____________________
ZX6R C6F.
Never argue with an idiot. They'll only bring you down to their level, and beat you with experience.

[G]

Oddly enough, today I just had a 'back care fit' class at the gym.
Been meaning to get to one for ages, but the person doing them was off for a while, etc, so it ended up that anyone that was going to them gave up.
However, that means I now have a personal trainer running the session just for me for the next six weeks .

And from that, on Monday I actually got to thinking about and made an effort to try and suck my gut in while doing weights as I noticed this helped me keep my back straight.

[Irezumi aka Reuben]

Muscle imbalance which has led to certain tendons stretching akwardly and has perpetuated the problem as time has gone on is a strong possibility.

You should look in to stretching correctly, also consider getting a consulatation from a physio. Speaking to that trainer may well help quite a bit too.

[mr jamez]

[dabigginger]

I cannot recommend a chiropractor enough! I have had back problems since I was 13 (I'm 25 now). After being fobbed off my doctors for ages (one even thinking I was trying it on), waiting months for physiotherapists to see me etc. I decided to see a chiropractor.

As soon as I was speaking to them, I felt so much better as I was speaking to someone who understood what was happening and within 5 minutes, provided me with a diagnosis and treated me accordingly! Sure, it costs around £25 a session, but it was well worth it!

Since then, I have joined the gym and pushing myself quite hard and I feel like a new man!

[G]

My doctor's opinion of chiropractors/osteopaths was that they'd help in the short term, but you generally need to continue seeing them over time for it to keep working.
Any comments on those that have used them - have you had to go back over time, or has only one 'course of treatment' been needed?

[The Shaggy D.A.]

I'd lost the feeling in two fingers of my left hand, which needed treatment with a chiropractor due to it being traced to my neck. I went twice a week at first, then once a week and it was maybe 10 weeks before I regained feeling again. He recommended that I go back once a month, but at £30 for 15 minutes treatment, I didn't see any benefit in keeping it up. I still do the exercises which keep the twinges at bay.

Bottom line is that ithe "one course of treatment" was all that was needed, but if I find myself with any problems in the future, I will use him again. I think something like yoga or Tai Chi to build up my core strength would be more beneficial long term.
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[dabigginger]

I've known people who've just had to go 5-10 times, then that's it. As for myself, I've got a curve in my spine which will never go away, so I do have to see them every 3-4 months for a check-up. It's quite nice and relaxing going there, actually!