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should you hide biking from your parents?

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Biker101
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PostPosted: 22:07 - 04 Aug 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

While my mum hates the bike, if she was in tears about it i'd feel real guilty having one.

She instead says they are dangerous and then supports me financially when i got the er6, and eggs me on when buying the cbr.

But i do hide it from my grandparents, they will be upset, they were really happy when i sold my 125 for a car and i was bikeless for about 6 months. Plus my grandma looked so worried when she first saw the 125 in the garage.
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smashed
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PostPosted: 12:17 - 06 Aug 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

glad you got it sorted mate!

welcome to two wheel fun =D

I was in the same position as you. Parents were dead against them absolutely positively no way I could have one.

I was 19 paid rent worked full time etc so could generally make my own choices the only issue i had was the bike would be in their garage as I couldn't afford to move out.

what I did was went out and bought the bike bought a jacket came home and was like I bought a bike. they were pretty shocked and didn't really have much to say at first then were just like well there's nothing we can do now you've already bought the blooming thing.

they like it now but I do get a bit of a lecture if they see me riding in my jeans.
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Benjay
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PostPosted: 15:26 - 06 Aug 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Biker101 wrote:
While my mum hates the bike, if she was in tears about it i'd feel real guilty having one.

She instead says they are dangerous and then supports me financially when i got the er6, and eggs me on when buying the cbr.

But i do hide it from my grandparents, they will be upset, they were really happy when i sold my 125 for a car and i was bikeless for about 6 months. Plus my grandma looked so worried when she first saw the 125 in the garage.


Haha don't say that i feel guilty as it is! Laughing

Good news, passed my module 2 test today so its onwards and upwards =]
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Clanger
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PostPosted: 16:00 - 06 Aug 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

We (me and my step brother) hid the fact that we rode each others, and rode the other larger bikes before we were supposed to from our parents.

I guess it depends how much you want it. Only you can tell how your parents might react...especially if you have an accident or something.

You might be as well sitting them down and saying you are going to do it when you leave home anyway, why not let you do it now.
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DizzyH
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PostPosted: 16:11 - 06 Aug 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Congratulations Benjay! Thumbs Up Very Happy
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tutton
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PostPosted: 16:29 - 06 Aug 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally i wouldnt be able to look my old dear in the eye before going out on the bike if she started bawling over my having a bike, my parents are concerned but i told em ignorance = bliss Laughing
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leeclissett
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PostPosted: 15:12 - 07 Aug 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, hide it at all costs Laughing

My dad got me into biking and loaned me the money for my first bike. Mum has made it clear that when I get hurt she will kill him and then be sent to jail.
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Adrian
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PostPosted: 22:17 - 08 Aug 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Congrat's on passing !!!
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iDemonix
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PostPosted: 08:04 - 10 Aug 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wahey, good on you mate =] Glad you've come to an agreement

My parents are exactly the same, my dad fell off his motorbike 25 years ago and paralyzed his left arm, he's in pain every single day lol.

But yeah, you can imagine the arguments in my house, after 3 MONTHS of arguing, they said I could have one if I drove a car for a year because by then the 'phase' would of wore off. Well I've been driving for a year and a half now and I've just booked a CBT =] I may have to keep the bike at a mates house up the road a bit though as they're adamant it's not going under their roof lol
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fezza612
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PostPosted: 17:18 - 13 Aug 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

i've just brought a cg125 while my parents are on holiday!! best way to do it i think Smile
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leeclissett
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PostPosted: 09:51 - 14 Aug 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not the old holiday sneak, oldest trick in the book.

Mum and Dad going on holiday was the holy grail, I remember thinking that taking my dads £70k porsche out for a spin despite a lack of insurance or driving licence was a good idea. Twisted Evil

Old bastard made a note of the mileage before he left, did I get a bollocking when they got back.
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Biker101
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PostPosted: 22:36 - 14 Aug 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

leeclissett wrote:
Not the old holiday sneak, oldest trick in the book.

Mum and Dad going on holiday was the holy grail, I remember thinking that taking my dads £70k porsche out for a spin despite a lack of insurance or driving licence was a good idea. Twisted Evil

Old bastard made a note of the mileage before he left, did I get a bollocking when they got back.


Anyone else thinking ferris bueller Laughing
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Old Thread Alert!

There is a gap of 7 years, 277 days between these two posts...

geoffdevon
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PostPosted: 08:30 - 17 May 2017    Post subject: concerned Dad Reply with quote

Sorry if this is a bit off topic. My son has just turned 16 and wants a 50cc - which we have agreed with. I am not a rider myself. I have been trying to convince him to get a scooter - but he is fixed on a Aprillia rs50 which seems, to me, not to be a learners bike - with 6 speed etc.

He has promised to do his test etc and we will get him the kit. My question is - should I stand my ground and say scooter first - learn the ropes then get something a bit bigger next year. Or let him get his aprilli??

I don't want him hiding a bike away at a friends etc. And can see that the "not under my roof" bit does not work.

Am I being over protective?
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 09:56 - 17 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Huh, it is actually on topic. Shocked

There's a lot of considerations here.

A restricted RS50 will be no quicker than a twist-and-go moped. It'll very likely be slower, as a twist-and-go can make better use of its tiny powerband - the RS will always be in the wrong gear.

But slow isn't safe. 28mph is way too slow for modern roads. Kiddo will be holding up traffic everywhere, and being bullied into the gutter. I'd hate to ride a restricted moped. Kiddo will be riding at full throttle everywhere out of sheer necessity.

If he gets caught on a derestricted moped (geared or twist-and-go) then it's a bum pumping for him. Otherwise than in Accordance with a Licence, and they might go for Uninsured as well, which is insurance herpes.

There's no right answer. The heart wants what it wants, and the RS50 is undoubtedly a very pretty little bike. I'd suggest that he'll be no less safe on it than on a twist-and-go, and he'll be less tempted to ride one on the sly, perhaps a dodgy one without insurance.

The other benefit of the Aprilia is that it'll doubtless be shagged out by a succession of 16 years olds trying to "tune" it, and it might spend more time in the garage than on the road. Whistle
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angryjonny
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PostPosted: 09:56 - 17 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

Holy thread-resurrection etc.

In my opinion 50cc bikes in any (road-legal) form are dangerously underpowered. I would not want to be wheezing my way up to 29.5mph as traffic piles up behind me and forces me into the gutter to overtake. So I'd advise waiting until he's 17 and get a 125. He'll want a 125 at 17 regardless of what he gets now.

However, teenagers are impatient.

I can't see him coming to much if any more harm on a 50cc bike than a 50cc scooter. Physical size isn't a problem, it's scope to harm oneself. To be honest, learning to use a clutch and gears will do him no harm, for a longer-term biking career. Is it the physical size of the thing that scares you?

The biggest difference between the two, I'd have thought, is money. When he throws the Aprilia down the road, it'll potentially cost him (and therefore you) a lot more than dropping a ped.

Personally, I'd rather see young'uns on a small "real" bike than a ped. Peds are becoming synonymous with scallies on the rob.

Edit: trust Roger to step in with a quicker more eloquent response.
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geoffdevon
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PostPosted: 10:43 - 17 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

angryjonny wrote:
Holy thread-resurrection etc.

In my opinion 50cc bikes in any (road-legal) form are dangerously underpowered. I would not want to be wheezing my way up to 29.5mph as traffic piles up behind me and forces me into the gutter to overtake. So I'd advise waiting until he's 17 and get a 125. He'll want a 125 at 17 regardless of what he gets now.

However, teenagers are impatient.

I can't see him coming to much if any more harm on a 50cc bike than a 50cc scooter. Physical size isn't a problem, it's scope to harm oneself. To be honest, learning to use a clutch and gears will do him no harm, for a longer-term biking career. Is it the physical size of the thing that scares you?

The biggest difference between the two, I'd have thought, is money. When he throws the Aprilia down the road, it'll potentially cost him (and therefore you) a lot more than dropping a ped.

Personally, I'd rather see young'uns on a small "real" bike than a ped. Peds are becoming synonymous with scallies on the rob.

Edit: trust Roger to step in with a quicker more eloquent response.


Thanks for replies. I can see the benefit of "a real bike" after your reply. And yes I know that all 50cc's struggle to keep up with traffic. I do think he will be safer once he's on something that can keep up with the traffic (125 next year) - so thanks for that advice.
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Teflon-Mike
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PostPosted: 11:10 - 17 May 2017    Post subject: Re: concerned Dad Reply with quote

geoffdevon wrote:
Sorry if this is a bit off topic. My son has just turned 16 and wants a 50cc - which we have agreed with. I am not a rider myself. I have been trying to convince him to get a scooter - but he is fixed on a Aprillia rs50 which seems, to me, not to be a learners bike - with 6 speed etc.

He has promised to do his test etc and we will get him the kit. My question is - should I stand my ground and say scooter first - learn the ropes then get something a bit bigger next year. Or let him get his aprilli??

I don't want him hiding a bike away at a friends etc. And can see that the "not under my roof" bit does not work.

Am I being over protective?


Of the many ways your son could find to kill himself.. I have to say motorcycling is probably one of the 'hardest' he could pick! And a moped? It would be like looking for a plastic butter knife to slash your wrists! Laughing

An Aprillia RS50?.... Oh-Kay..... well, if my lad walked in with such a plan... when I'd finished laughing, I'd simply say "Get on with it kid!"

I have to say I am not a big fan of scooters, and your ideas one 'must' be safer are rather nebulouse..... Chap that 'invented' the Vesapa.... hated motorcycles with a passion; he was an aeroplane designer, told he couldn't design planes after WWII... so was give the job of desiging a motorbike.... it is almost as if he said {in heavy italian accent!} "Oh-Kay, dey wanna motah-byke, I giv-a-dem-a-dam-mota-byke!! Dey fall over! Big wheels help them stay up! RIGHT whats the SMALLEST lidduw wheel can get?" And worked from there, tryig to incorporate as many REALLY bad design ideas as he could, in the hope that they'd look at it, tell him he was being 'daft' and give him a washing machine, or something to design instead!

Honestly; I'm an engineer! And if you sat down with a clean sheet of paper to design a 'good' motorbike; you would NOT start with such diddy wheels, or would you then stick the engine at the back, or make the engine go up and down with the suspension! You wouldn't chop out the middle of the frame to fit your legs in and let the front end twist n relation to the back! And you certanly wouldn't, as they did with the Vespa, shift the back-wheel three inches side ways so it ran on a different line to the front! ABSOLUTE anathema of good design.... I love'em! By all that is holy in mechaics they just SHOULD NOT WORK!

WHICH... if you are concerned about the kid, is actually THE most bestest feature of an Aprillia RS50....... it probably WONT work.... very often! (but shhhhh let him learn that the hard way!)

First ff its Italian! They make very pretty motorcycles, but, after they have crafted those beautiful lines and applied that fantastic paint scheme.. they sort of loose interest in the rest! Electrics are notoriouse... I have a Moto-Guzzi outside belongng to my O/H.. fantastc bit of Italan Engineering... everything works..... B-U-T only when it decides it wants to! The light switches, I think have a Random Event Generator in them! Sometmes you dont even have to turn something ON for it to decide to work! Italian motocyle-ist, call this 'Charecter'!?!?!

Aprillia RS50? Its a two-stroke. These are highly desirable, because they have a reputation for being 'FAST'... when you aren't pushing them! And for being easy to tune to be even faster... up to the point you have to start pushing them... and have an even longer walk home!

Reliability is NOT their strong suit! And it does NOT get better when teenagers with daft ideas about going 'fast' start doing even dafter things to them, to try going faster....

Ironically they aren't 'fast'... as standard fit kid on a push bike can usually go faster.... round here often on the pavement on a BMX with flat tyres, knocking little old ladies hither and dither as they go! At least a moped should have a number-plate, to track them down by! But they aren't fast! Mo-Ped, MOtorised-PEDal Cycle.... they are not fast!

IF they do enough of the right stuff to them, they might, brefly make one go.... oooh.... almost 50mph! About as 'slow' as a rather asthmatic 125 wich is still far from fast! But they will likely not be dong it very often, or for very long.. as they tend to even worse reliability!

Meanwhile, sat in the back garden with the lap-top, a screw-driver, and some bzare ideas, taking the thing to bits, tryg to work out, from a badly translated Italian guide to 'de-restrict' probably a comletely different bike! Which wire to cut......

HECK! Better than giving them a piece of paper with PTO wiritten on both sides and sending them to thier room, telling them to follow the instructions! They aren't going to hurt themselves in too much of a hurry!

So, I'd have few qualms about sayng 'yes' to my lad... actually could be rather good source of amusement!

Especially as the things are HORENDOUSELY expensve to insure... got qutes on a veriety for my Daughter to get to tech on not log back... they were 'avin a laugh! Most of them were ore expensive than my ruddy car insurance! To go as fast as a push bike?!?!?!? And that was ore sensble ones, that the RS isn't!

And he'd have to stump up the full years premiu up-front too... the 'monthly' payement plans they offer on line, are a credit plan he's not old enough to take out!! And NO! Sorry son, I am NOT taking out insurance n my name, so yu can have the credit plan, and put the premum up on MY bikes and MY cars and MY house insurance when you splat the thing into an Aud! And stop paying the monthlies....

That would keep him out of trouble and on the busses for a while, till he'd saved up .....or, TBH conned Mummy into doing what I wouldn't!

But, no great shakes.. he still isn't likely to hurt himself in a hurry..

Especially f he's the one paying for it all! And not havng me indulge him, every time he breaks it and whines "Dad can you have a look at it!" or "I need a new piston... can you lend me £80 till I get my inheritance?..err. What inheritance?!?! I ask looking to check I'm not stood in a puddle and he hasn't put an electric fire in it! lol.

REALISTICALLY... motorcycles ARE dangerouse... BUT.. so's life!

In the greater scheme of stuff, push-bikes are per person, per mile ACTUALLY as or more dangerouse! Did you have the same qualms sticking him on a push bike? Did you make sure he wore a helmet? Is he still alive after that?

A Moped? At least he HAS to wear a crash hat! He HAS to have insurance! He HAS to at least to CBT training! He HAS a number plate on the back; he can be tracked down for doing silly stuff.

A-N-D... if you dont chuck the tenners at him every time he winges, he might just learn how much stuff costs, and how much more it costs if you are a bit 'daft'

If he has some sense... he'll live.. he probably wont even get arrested, might even void local plod takng the ped off him in one of thier crack-downs.

If not.... well, Arthur Ransom's Swallows and Amazons and the Dad's reply to their request to take boat on the lake "If Duffers will Drown... Better Drowned than Duffers"

You have to let'em get on with it at some point, you cant keep the wrapped up n cotton wool... and as said, bikes is one possbly 'obviouse' danger... but in the greater scheme of thigs that a teenager is likely to get into, it is ACTUALLY as likely to keep him out of more trouble than it gets hm into!

I mean, I would have more qualms knowing one of my kids was going 'clubbing' on a Satrday night, than riding a motorbike..... Twenty fve years ago, I actually had a date with an emergency room Nurse, who was aghast at the suggestion I rode motorbikes, tellng me how dangerous they are, utterly oblivious of the irony, a she knocked back Vodka and Lemonades, and muttered how glad she was ot to be on duty that night, dealing with all the girls who'd fallen off pavements and twisted ankles; lads with stiletto heels in thier heads or bottles in their faces; or yoofs having stomach's pumped after ODing on whatever, or having been slipped a Mikey.... or just fallen down with de-hydration, after a few too many Vodka and lemonades......

Bikes? They dont leave you much money to go clubbing, or to buy drugs, or booze! And if you have a rather tempremental two-stroke, even less, and even less time, when your Friay inghts are probably spent pulling cylinder heads to bits to find out what's broke 'this time'! Hoping you ca get some-where to buy needed bits Satrday, and can get them fitted on Sunday before School Monday, so as avoid the bus!

On that basis, I'd probably encourage him to get on with it! Like I said, could be a laugh! Certainly was when No1 Son had a Honda C50!

BUT, I SURE as hell wouldn't be funding it for him!

Like I said, a years insurance for a moped, for my daughter to get to college on, year or so back, was more than the insurance on my car, my motorbike, and my O/H's motorbike put together..... her mutterig about bus-fares and the price of petrol didn't wash either; and sum total, was that it's a HECK of a lot of money, for something that barely does the job of a push-bike, to save the pedelling!

A 125, when she was 17.. was still a very big indulgence. Putting '+Commuting' on the policy application so she could use it to go to tech every day was just prohibitive! Keeping it in shed for the week-end so she could trundle out with me & O/H i convoy, rather than ridng on a pillion ade some sense; and the costs as a 'liesure bike' were more palatable, but not just as a 'toy'. or her, deal wa she took lessons and got a licence with the thing. NOT pranny about on L-Plates. That got her a full driving licence, it also should have started her earning No-Clams-Bonus on her insurance; and was cheaper than putting hero on my car insurance; so she had peronal wheels, and when she left school, had the 'tool' to get t and from Uni or to and from work, without the dire costs of a car, or having to repeat CBT's and other stuff, when she found she needed transport. Meanwhile earning NCB that if/when she could realistically afford a car, would make the insurance on that more manageable... but again, NO WAY was I payg to stick her n my insurance, risk my NCB so she could steal my wheels to go cruising with her mates!

If that offers any insight, I dont know; but YES, I had far fewer qualms stickng my daughter on a 125, than I did puttig her in a car..... did yu know that teen-age girls now are actually more likely to crash a car than teen-age boys? Teen-age boys will ted to try gong 'fast', but girls will stop watching the road to answer a mesage on thier smart phone!

As said, iff duffers will drown.. you have to let them get on with it, and just hope they wont at some point... but in the mean-time.. weigh things up a little sensibly.

Moped? NOT a huge worry. Certainly not garanteed instant death. It IS garanteed lots of money to be about as 'safe' going possibly only a little faster than on a push-bike.....

Sooters? Lots of ant-scocial behaviour and 'yob' attude surrounds them; plod do take them off kids, and other kids nick'em.. and as said, I dont have much affection for the things, they are bludy unstable automotive anathmas! BUT.. risks are more whether they will get into troble down the park showing off to mates and sharng a bottle of white lightning, than tearing around the streets ridng nto the back of busses!

'Aprillia? Biggest risk is he'll become a troglodyte; hiding in a dark shed, from which mutterings about 'squish bands' and reed-valve clerances, and carburettor jets will be emmitted more often than the noises of a rampant little bakes-ban two-stroke, less still the actual bakes-bean two stroke, which if it ever goes up the road, probably wont be going very far, even if it does go a bit less slow than the slow it should!

Any help?
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ScaredyCat
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PostPosted: 11:25 - 17 May 2017    Post subject: Re: concerned Dad Reply with quote

Teflon-Mike wrote:
Any help?


We'll need to wait until new OP comes out of their coma to answer that one.
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angryjonny
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PostPosted: 11:27 - 17 May 2017    Post subject: Reply with quote

geoffdevon wrote:
Thanks for replies. I can see the benefit of "a real bike" after your reply. And yes I know that all 50cc's struggle to keep up with traffic. I do think he will be safer once he's on something that can keep up with the traffic (125 next year) - so thanks for that advice.

He'll be alright around the estate annoying the neighbours. What's that noise? It sounds like a bee in a biscuit tin. Oh it's Brendan on his RS50, 400 yards away. He'll be here in 20 minutes or so.

Absolutely useless on any real roads, dual carriageways etc. But as suggested above, he won't spend much time riding it. Any time it's not in the workshop he'll be parked up outside the Megabowl with Anthony and Warren and Lauren and Shaznay just looking at it.
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geoffdevon
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PostPosted: 11:29 - 17 May 2017    Post subject: Re: concerned Dad Reply with quote

Teflon-Mike wrote:
geoffdevon wrote:
Sorry if this is a bit off topic. My son has just turned 16 and wants a 50cc - which we have agreed with. I am not a rider myself. I have been trying to convince him to get a scooter - but he is fixed on a Aprillia rs50 which seems, to me, not to be a learners bike - with 6 speed etc.

He has promised to do his test etc and we will get him the kit. My question is - should I stand my ground and say scooter first - learn the ropes then get something a bit bigger next year. Or let him get his aprilli??

I don't want him hiding a bike away at a friends etc. And can see that the "not under my roof" bit does not work.

Am I being over protective?


Of the many ways your son could find to kill himself.. I have to say motorcycling is probably one of the 'hardest' he could pick! And a moped? It would be like looking for a plastic butter knife to slash your wrists! Laughing

An Aprillia RS50?.... Oh-Kay..... well, if my lad walked in with such a plan... when I'd finished laughing, I'd simply say "Get on with it kid!"

I have to say I am not a big fan of scooters, and your ideas one 'must' be safer are rather nebulouse..... Chap that 'invented' the Vesapa.... hated motorcycles with a passion; he was an aeroplane designer, told he couldn't design planes after WWII... so was give the job of desiging a motorbike.... it is almost as if he said {in heavy italian accent!} "Oh-Kay, dey wanna motah-byke, I giv-a-dem-a-dam-mota-byke!! Dey fall over! Big wheels help them stay up! RIGHT whats the SMALLEST lidduw wheel can get?" And worked from there, tryig to incorporate as many REALLY bad design ideas as he could, in the hope that they'd look at it, tell him he was being 'daft' and give him a washing machine, or something to design instead!

Honestly; I'm an engineer! And if you sat down with a clean sheet of paper to design a 'good' motorbike; you would NOT start with such diddy wheels, or would you then stick the engine at the back, or make the engine go up and down with the suspension! You wouldn't chop out the middle of the frame to fit your legs in and let the front end twist n relation to the back! And you certanly wouldn't, as they did with the Vespa, shift the back-wheel three inches side ways so it ran on a different line to the front! ABSOLUTE anathema of good design.... I love'em! By all that is holy in mechaics they just SHOULD NOT WORK!

WHICH... if you are concerned about the kid, is actually THE most bestest feature of an Aprillia RS50....... it probably WONT work.... very often! (but shhhhh let him learn that the hard way!)

First ff its Italian! They make very pretty motorcycles, but, after they have crafted those beautiful lines and applied that fantastic paint scheme.. they sort of loose interest in the rest! Electrics are notoriouse... I have a Moto-Guzzi outside belongng to my O/H.. fantastc bit of Italan Engineering... everything works..... B-U-T only when it decides it wants to! The light switches, I think have a Random Event Generator in them! Sometmes you dont even have to turn something ON for it to decide to work! Italian motocyle-ist, call this 'Charecter'!?!?!

Aprillia RS50? Its a two-stroke. These are highly desirable, because they have a reputation for being 'FAST'... when you aren't pushing them! And for being easy to tune to be even faster... up to the point you have to start pushing them... and have an even longer walk home!

Reliability is NOT their strong suit! And it does NOT get better when teenagers with daft ideas about going 'fast' start doing even dafter things to them, to try going faster....

Ironically they aren't 'fast'... as standard fit kid on a push bike can usually go faster.... round here often on the pavement on a BMX with flat tyres, knocking little old ladies hither and dither as they go! At least a moped should have a number-plate, to track them down by! But they aren't fast! Mo-Ped, MOtorised-PEDal Cycle.... they are not fast!

IF they do enough of the right stuff to them, they might, brefly make one go.... oooh.... almost 50mph! About as 'slow' as a rather asthmatic 125 wich is still far from fast! But they will likely not be dong it very often, or for very long.. as they tend to even worse reliability!

Meanwhile, sat in the back garden with the lap-top, a screw-driver, and some bzare ideas, taking the thing to bits, tryg to work out, from a badly translated Italian guide to 'de-restrict' probably a comletely different bike! Which wire to cut......

HECK! Better than giving them a piece of paper with PTO wiritten on both sides and sending them to thier room, telling them to follow the instructions! They aren't going to hurt themselves in too much of a hurry!

So, I'd have few qualms about sayng 'yes' to my lad... actually could be rather good source of amusement!

Especially as the things are HORENDOUSELY expensve to insure... got qutes on a veriety for my Daughter to get to tech on not log back... they were 'avin a laugh! Most of them were ore expensive than my ruddy car insurance! To go as fast as a push bike?!?!?!? And that was ore sensble ones, that the RS isn't!

And he'd have to stump up the full years premiu up-front too... the 'monthly' payement plans they offer on line, are a credit plan he's not old enough to take out!! And NO! Sorry son, I am NOT taking out insurance n my name, so yu can have the credit plan, and put the premum up on MY bikes and MY cars and MY house insurance when you splat the thing into an Aud! And stop paying the monthlies....

That would keep him out of trouble and on the busses for a while, till he'd saved up .....or, TBH conned Mummy into doing what I wouldn't!

But, no great shakes.. he still isn't likely to hurt himself in a hurry..

Especially f he's the one paying for it all! And not havng me indulge him, every time he breaks it and whines "Dad can you have a look at it!" or "I need a new piston... can you lend me £80 till I get my inheritance?..err. What inheritance?!?! I ask looking to check I'm not stood in a puddle and he hasn't put an electric fire in it! lol.

REALISTICALLY... motorcycles ARE dangerouse... BUT.. so's life!

In the greater scheme of stuff, push-bikes are per person, per mile ACTUALLY as or more dangerouse! Did you have the same qualms sticking him on a push bike? Did you make sure he wore a helmet? Is he still alive after that?

A Moped? At least he HAS to wear a crash hat! He HAS to have insurance! He HAS to at least to CBT training! He HAS a number plate on the back; he can be tracked down for doing silly stuff.

A-N-D... if you dont chuck the tenners at him every time he winges, he might just learn how much stuff costs, and how much more it costs if you are a bit 'daft'

If he has some sense... he'll live.. he probably wont even get arrested, might even void local plod takng the ped off him in one of thier crack-downs.

If not.... well, Arthur Ransom's Swallows and Amazons and the Dad's reply to their request to take boat on the lake "If Duffers will Drown... Better Drowned than Duffers"

You have to let'em get on with it at some point, you cant keep the wrapped up n cotton wool... and as said, bikes is one possbly 'obviouse' danger... but in the greater scheme of thigs that a teenager is likely to get into, it is ACTUALLY as likely to keep him out of more trouble than it gets hm into!

I mean, I would have more qualms knowing one of my kids was going 'clubbing' on a Satrday night, than riding a motorbike..... Twenty fve years ago, I actually had a date with an emergency room Nurse, who was aghast at the suggestion I rode motorbikes, tellng me how dangerous they are, utterly oblivious of the irony, a she knocked back Vodka and Lemonades, and muttered how glad she was ot to be on duty that night, dealing with all the girls who'd fallen off pavements and twisted ankles; lads with stiletto heels in thier heads or bottles in their faces; or yoofs having stomach's pumped after ODing on whatever, or having been slipped a Mikey.... or just fallen down with de-hydration, after a few too many Vodka and lemonades......

Bikes? They dont leave you much money to go clubbing, or to buy drugs, or booze! And if you have a rather tempremental two-stroke, even less, and even less time, when your Friay inghts are probably spent pulling cylinder heads to bits to find out what's broke 'this time'! Hoping you ca get some-where to buy needed bits Satrday, and can get them fitted on Sunday before School Monday, so as avoid the bus!

On that basis, I'd probably encourage him to get on with it! Like I said, could be a laugh! Certainly was when No1 Son had a Honda C50!

BUT, I SURE as hell wouldn't be funding it for him!

Like I said, a years insurance for a moped, for my daughter to get to college on, year or so back, was more than the insurance on my car, my motorbike, and my O/H's motorbike put together..... her mutterig about bus-fares and the price of petrol didn't wash either; and sum total, was that it's a HECK of a lot of money, for something that barely does the job of a push-bike, to save the pedelling!

A 125, when she was 17.. was still a very big indulgence. Putting '+Commuting' on the policy application so she could use it to go to tech every day was just prohibitive! Keeping it in shed for the week-end so she could trundle out with me & O/H i convoy, rather than ridng on a pillion ade some sense; and the costs as a 'liesure bike' were more palatable, but not just as a 'toy'. or her, deal wa she took lessons and got a licence with the thing. NOT pranny about on L-Plates. That got her a full driving licence, it also should have started her earning No-Clams-Bonus on her insurance; and was cheaper than putting hero on my car insurance; so she had peronal wheels, and when she left school, had the 'tool' to get t and from Uni or to and from work, without the dire costs of a car, or having to repeat CBT's and other stuff, when she found she needed transport. Meanwhile earning NCB that if/when she could realistically afford a car, would make the insurance on that more manageable... but again, NO WAY was I payg to stick her n my insurance, risk my NCB so she could steal my wheels to go cruising with her mates!

If that offers any insight, I dont know; but YES, I had far fewer qualms stickng my daughter on a 125, than I did puttig her in a car..... did yu know that teen-age girls now are actually more likely to crash a car than teen-age boys? Teen-age boys will ted to try gong 'fast', but girls will stop watching the road to answer a mesage on thier smart phone!

As said, iff duffers will drown.. you have to let them get on with it, and just hope they wont at some point... but in the mean-time.. weigh things up a little sensibly.

Moped? NOT a huge worry. Certainly not garanteed instant death. It IS garanteed lots of money to be about as 'safe' going possibly only a little faster than on a push-bike.....

Sooters? Lots of ant-scocial behaviour and 'yob' attude surrounds them; plod do take them off kids, and other kids nick'em.. and as said, I dont have much affection for the things, they are bludy unstable automotive anathmas! BUT.. risks are more whether they will get into troble down the park showing off to mates and sharng a bottle of white lightning, than tearing around the streets ridng nto the back of busses!

'Aprillia? Biggest risk is he'll become a troglodyte; hiding in a dark shed, from which mutterings about 'squish bands' and reed-valve clerances, and carburettor jets will be emmitted more often than the noises of a rampant little bakes-ban two-stroke, less still the actual bakes-bean two stroke, which if it ever goes up the road, probably wont be going very far, even if it does go a bit less slow than the slow it should!

Any help?


Thank you Mike - yes I can see what your saying - he is already showing me youtube clips of tuning these bikes. I have told him about the insurance implication etc (just as my dad told me when I had my head under the bonnet of an escort mexico in my youth). And your right - let them get on with it and make the same sort of mistakes we all probably made.

He has saved the money for the bike - I will make sure he does his test and pay for his safety gear. What more can you do ??
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 12:00 - 17 May 2017    Post subject: Re: concerned Dad Reply with quote

geoffdevon wrote:
I will make sure he does his test

So we're clear, all he needs is a short Compulsory Basic Training course, which is exactly what it says: the most basic bike control. It's not a test and it barely even touches on roadcraft. The lad I did my road ride with went straight through a red light.

Oh, and he'll almost certainly be doing it on a twist-and-go moped, so he won't even be taught gears unless he specifically asks to blag a go on one of their geared 125s (off road only).

There's nothing stopping him getting some actual road training afterwards, except budget and ego.

Or kiddo can book and do an actual "test" (well, motorcycle theory, then module 1 offroad and module 2 on-road) to get himself an AM licence rather than just provisionaL entitlement.

Near as I can tell by looking at the DfT figures, this has been done by precisely zero people, ever, but it is a possibility and it would get his 2 year new-driver probationary period started at 16 rather than 17 or older.
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geoffdevon
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PostPosted: 12:13 - 17 May 2017    Post subject: Re: concerned Dad Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
geoffdevon wrote:
I will make sure he does his test

So we're clear, all he needs is a short Compulsory Basic Training course, which is exactly what it says: the most basic bike control. It's not a test and it barely even touches on roadcraft. The lad I did my road ride with went straight through a red light.

Oh, and he'll almost certainly be doing it on a twist-and-go moped, so he won't even be taught gears unless he specifically asks to blag a go on one of their geared 125s (off road only).

There's nothing stopping him getting some actual road training afterwards, except budget and ego.

Or kiddo can book and do an actual "test" (well, motorcycle theory, then module 1 offroad and module 2 on-road) to get himself an AM licence rather than just provisionaL entitlement.

Near as I can tell by looking at the DfT figures, this has been done by precisely zero people, ever, but it is a possibility and it would get his 2 year new-driver probationary period started at 16 rather than 17 or older.


Thanks - that's good advice - I shall insist on training as opposed to just the test.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 12:19 - 17 May 2017    Post subject: Re: concerned Dad Reply with quote

geoffdevon wrote:
I shall insist on training as opposed to just the test.

THERE IS NO TEST, ONLY ZUUL.
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Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
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Fizzoid
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PostPosted: 12:30 - 17 May 2017    Post subject: Re: concerned Dad Reply with quote

ScaredyCat wrote:
Teflon-Mike wrote:
Any help?


We'll need to wait until new OP comes out of their coma to answer that one.


At least by the time he's read that, his son will be old enough to get a 125...
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Teflon-Mike
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PostPosted: 13:56 - 17 May 2017    Post subject: Re: concerned Dad Reply with quote

geoffdevon wrote:
I will make sure he does his test and pay for his safety gear.


CBT is NOT, repeat NOT a 'test' its Compulsory Basic Training, it is the FIRST LESSON.

There is a Moped test/Licence entitlement, but it is a lttle bit futile.

There IS point to it; you can ditch the retched L-Plates, and it does get the clock started on New Driver-Probation, and as licences go, it s fairly cheap to do DIY self booking... and examiner would probably be over the moon to give some-one a pass cert for one they get so few! And does demand some getting a bit clued up aboutthe whole business and instlling the right atttude', but not a lot more.

Practically, does make more sense IF you are going to spend that sort of money on a motorsed push-bike; to get the max value fromi t, but that would be in training and practice for the tests to be done ASAP after 17th on a 125... though even that isn't worth what it was! But it Is a once and forever CBT Cert to carry on 125ng indefnitely, and that's useful to have, always means cheap wheels, without the hassle of fnding extra to get tcketed up first, when you probably can least afford it.

geoffdevon wrote:
What more can you do ??


No1 Son, with his C50, 'had' to beg some favors to be able to afford it; the 'deal' was I actually bought him the bike; and paid for his CBT... AND a course of rider training for the tests.... one a month until he was 17.... He pad the insurance, (which was ore expensive than the bke TBH!) he bought his gear, he paid the Tax and MOT.

Notion was that in one ear, out the other, soon as he had CBT that would be the be-all and end all, and he'd just razz about until it lapsed, and then come crying....(And yup, I did catch hm or get reports of him tazng about trying to do wheelies, or carrying mates lidless on the pillion etc etc etc!)

Monthly lesson was as much as anything to put a 'check' on his ridng, keepng him thinking how to do it better, and be ready at 17 to do tests, on a 125 for his full licence, which at the time, he could do on a 125 to get the RWYL 'A' Enttlement wth 2year power probation.

He missed one lesson... and then fumed, when he tried hot-wiring his moped, thinking I had 'just' confiscated the key, when he tried wheeling it round the corner to start it... and realised the frame was chained to my bike with a rather hefty padlock and chain! Well... I didn't want any-one stealing it whilst he wasn't able to use it now, diid I? Lol! He got a lesson booked pretty sharpish!

When he was 17, all he needed to do was his theory test; and then book the practical, it wasn't even split into two at that time, I don't think! Use the school bike to take tests on, and he could have had the full licence.. instead, he sold the 50, to fund a 125, and a sporty two stroke one, he couldn't really afford, rather than do the tests, and then had to repeat his CBT a year later when it ran out! WHEN if he'd done tests, he could have had a 250 or 500 that would have been both faster and cheaper than the 'fast' 125 he couldn't afford.. then at 20, after trashing a succession of old heap 'sporty' 125's and needing ANOTHER CBT to carry on riding... got his act together.... did his tests! After spending two years and gawd knows how much money to avoid them, to not have the 'performance' he craved, or save any time or money along the way! MOANING that he had a 33bhp restriction, and if he'd only waited a year he could have 'done DAS'?!?!?

Yup, some-times they have to learn the hard way!

geoffdevon wrote:
just as my dad told me when I had my head under the bonnet of an escort mexico in my youth


Ironically, it was my 'old-man' that was the perpetrator of silly ideas when I was 16!!! (Actually my Grandad, My Dad had buggered off long before!)

Uncle was the kiddie go-kwik tear away, who had caused Pops to tear his hair out, bringing home tuned BSA's hoping mechanic 'Pops' would fix for him; then bored out Minis!

Pops actually had a penchant for Hlman Imps.... and a strong contingent of clubby racers were forever bugging him for help to stop them boiling thier kettle lids! But he was at hs wits ed with all Unc's schemes!

I tended to get blamed for all unc's crimes in the workshop; but at 11yrs old had bought my own tool-kt and cleared a old shed in the garden to house both tools and a pedal & pop I had 'won' in a garage clearance, making t run! And keep generally out of the way!

At 15, after helpng on a milk round, dong seasonal stuff o the farm, mowing lawns and doing every odd job I could to save the cash to buy my own competition bike, and discovering loop-hole in ACU rule book, that allowed me to ride in the 'adult' class at 15, as my birthday fell in that year, I found, and bought my competition trials bike.

At four years old, its frst and only ever MOT just expired; I brought it home... for Pops to ask "So whats wrong with this one then?" and be stunned, and not entirely convinced I wasn't lyng, when I said "Nothing"...

Convincing Unc to drive me over to an event n the Cotswoulds, Pops showed an unusual interest, and came along.. I fell off a lot, and didn't actually finish the event! I was only just 15, and I was competing n the Adult class on an Adult bike... it was rather hard work! BUT I think I won a little grudging respect from Pops, as we stopped at a pub n the way back, and when Unc went to order a drink, and said he'd get me a shandy Pops, insisted he buy me a full pint of ale "He rode mans bike, in mans event, he deserves mans drink" Which s as close as 'praise as he ever gave ANY of the 'kids'!

Enter the Moped! I had at that point, given up on the idea of ever being 16, and certainly the suggestion of mopeds! I had a competition 250, what a come down! That bike, had, been inspired I have to say by a couple of years gong to a youth-club thing in Brum, to ride Trials bikes; but they shared thier sheds with a volunter BMF bke school... who had gone commercial and rented bikes! Suggesting I could skip the 125 'thing' and the rows of melted pistons my older mates were collecting on garage window-sills; do a course and take tests on a school bike; then ride what whatever... conveniently 'Unc' had bought a 4 year old Honda CBX550, which had promptly shat its cam-chain, and been deemed scrap... "You fix it, you can 'av it"" This seemed a much more sensible suggestion than an RD125 I could no longer afford having bought the comper! Meanwhile an Air Cooled RD250 had been cajoled back into life... and whilst that seemed more attractive than the CBX... I needed money! So I flogged it, and in PX I grudgingly accepted a Yamaha DT50M.. the early twin-shock version. That was, on close inspection utterly donald-ducked!

Strippg it down the exhaust was mostly rust connected with bits of central heatg pipe! The frame was actually snapped! And the motor had scored cylinder! It seemed like a complete loss, but I couldn't flog it, so just for laughs, decided to rebuld it! With the oto, I might be able to use it to get to ad from school for a bit, and save train fares! Headlamps crumbles! Switches fell to bits, and the wires? Yup, became something of a marathon job!

And when Pops deigned to get interested, when a parcel containing a 65cc bg-bore turned up, things got err... un-believeabl-unreliable very quickly!

Big Bore was procured simply because it was 'cheaper' than a new barrel, and the old one was WAY beyond re-bore limits! Remember, teen-age mates with oy-dee-az' were dragging me into their sheds cos I had tools, expecting me to miracle mend melted maloss's with a toffee wrapper and a hammer!

But Pops got interested atthis point, and decended from the attick with a rather quaint cotton cover book called "Tuning the two-stroke for Speed" written n the 1950's and making lots f references to the ron barels on Vlliers lawn mower motors!

Pops Has, in the 50's run a Roots Motors work-shop that sold Areil motorcyles, in Africa, and had raced the Bikes in local hill-clims and scrambles quite successfully I am told! They were four strokes! And worse, British four-strokes. worse till, to my 16 year old eyes, bludy antiques!

But he percevered; and started filing engine cases and stuff, and ponting at things and hmming and harng, and grudgingly offering approval of 'Jap-Crap', and repeatedly expressing the importance of 'Primary Compression'... filling the crank case with glue to reduce its volume and increase pumping pressure!

The machine's maiden run, was at under Pops careful direction. I followed him in his estate car down the back lanes; then on a fairly quiet, fairly flat country lane; we stopped. He had, used the cars oddometer to measure out a 1/2 mile of fairly straight fairly flat road, and produced a stop watch... "Your going to do a flying mile!" he said! It wasn't it was two flyng half iles, and the bike only managed one run!

It DID clock something less than 30 seconds to do it.... but t didn't do another one.. which disaponted Pops, and had him chuckling about the Triumph Bonavlle record breaker!

What disappointed ME was he wouldn't shove ped in boot of estate car and made me push it all the frigging way home!

Where he was waiting with spanners! "Right lets get that engine out ad see whats gone wrong!" I think he was probably more exited about seeg internal carnage, than he was that we'd just got a 65cc moped to go 65mph! with ME as the crash-test-dummy on the top!

The 'problem' was that primary compression ratio, which blew crank-case seals out of their housings!... and this became something of a 'routine'.. but By this point Pops enthusiasm to see if 'we' could get a 'moped' to go 70mph had become somewhat infectiouse... tempered only by having to push the damn thing back from the measured half mile! For Pops to scratch his head and ponder another ovel way of holding the seals in!

I was actually 17... and had passed my car drivig licence by the point we'd got that bludy bike to even notionally stay in one peice! It was a bit quick though... for as long as it was runnng! It still fond thngs to shake loose, 'blow' or break, for Pops to find a novel way to 'beef up'!!

Until I was Smidsy'd drawing up to a set of traffic lights n Warwick on my way back from tech one day! sort of flew over the bonet of the Triumph Sptifre that hit me; slid down the road for about twenty feet, and was stopped by a mercifully soft cast iron litter in at the pavement....

To be run over by my own effing moped that had taken the long way round' the effing trumpet!!!! Laughing

"A WRITE OFF!" pronounced Pops when the wreckage returned... "Great!.. I was wondering how long you'd take to smash it up..... I can have the gear-box for my lathe now!" Shocked

Hmmmmmm.... I wonder if that was his plan all along! Laughing

As they say, there's no fool, like an old fool! So I believe that it is my perogative these days to indulge my foolishness.... so I build little Honda 125 Twins 'for fun'!!! You know, some-times they are even almost as fast as that moped!
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