Self righteousness, jealousy or just good advice?

[Poseidon]

I've started this thread to see what everyone thinks on the advice that is often given to new/inexperienced bikers.

The conundrum is:
Whenever an inexperienced biker is looking at buying a new bike, there are swarms of people who will always say start small, don't get a bike bigger than you could handle... Yet almost the exact opposite is true for cars. An example would be myself. I have a trident 750, which is my first ever bike. Not a quick bike, but definitely big and heavy. I have always dreamt of a Daytona 955i, or maybe's a Ducati 748. Most people flip out and say I cant handle either and should get a sports 600. Whilst I can see why they would say that, I wondered why the same isn't true for cars. The quickest car I have owned is a 1.6 and I'm looking at upgrading to something with 4 doors (little one due in October ) and I've been looking at 3litre Mondeos/WRX Scoobies. With regards to the car, everyone says get the ST220/UK300 instead of the standard 3.0/WRX, both quicker cars, and the exact opposite phenomenon to bike advice. Thinking back, every time I've upgraded my car, all the advice was geared around getting the most MPH for my money, not the "get a car you can handle, walk before you run" stuff.

Do bikers look out for each other, in a brotherly (or sisterly, got to be PC) way, giving sound advice to protect our own kind... Or is it a smugness of "I'm a better rider... I can handle it, you can't!". Is it a resentment of the fact that a newby is getting a better bike than a seasoned biker? Could it be penance? everyone has to pay their dues and work their way up from the bottom in order to become a real biker?

I appreciate bikes are far more dangerous and it takes a lot more skill to ride them safely than it does to be safe in a car, but why do people say "You couldn't handle it... It's too quick, you'd kill yourself, you can't use the full potential so you don't need it". The same could be said for any bike that goes over 70mph. And still there's my point that no one offers the same advice to newby's looking at cars! I personally can't see the problem with buying a "big" bike and taking it steady until you find your feet. Whilst you won't be using the bikes full potential, at least your riding the bike you want and not coveting everyone elses bike! ( I know, I know, most people don't take it steady, but I'm very odd in that I do learn to walk before I try to run!)

Personally I prefer to believe the good advice angle. I know the biking community is much closer than the cagers... Just wondered what your views were.

By the way, I'm not looking for advice on me getting a litre sports as my second bike... It's all about why the advice is given so freely

Many Thanks

Drew
____________________
1977 Honda CG125
2002 Ducati Monster S4 (currently restoring)

[tsmith]

you are in control of the bike and not the other way round.

if you want a fast bike then go for it.

you can kill yourself on a 12bhp 125 if you crash and end up under the wheels of a car.

[nick606]

I say it because bikes are a lot less stable than cars i mean you can bin a bike just by hard acceleration/braking rather easy compared to a car. Plus when you think about a 1000cc bikes performance its supercar quick you wouldn't get a supercar for your first car would you ?

I wouldn't say your automatically going to crash and burn if you get one straight away but its far easier too on a liter bike rather than a 125/400 or even a 600.

[AngelGrinder]

I think the problem is, it's much easier to wrap a fast bike round the nearest tree by accident than it is with a car.

And, speaking from experience, you actually learn slower the faster a bike is (generally). As the bike will scare you, mainly due to going into a corner too hot, and apart from turning, theres not a huge amount you can do - take a corner too hard on a Scooby for example and you can still brake in the middle of a corner.

Plus, if you do muck up in the car...your alot less likely to be hurt!
____________________
Currently Riding - 2002 Aprilia RSV1000 Mille

[Poseidon]

[gixerstu]

Remember the throtle goes both ways.
If you buy a fast bike it wont go fast without you making it.
If you can afford a good big bike and its what you want go for it you never know whats round the corner(not literally I mean the future).

[Poseidon]

[0ddball]

I wouldn't say it's exactly opposite for a car either. Nobody (except for his mates) tells an 18 year old who's had 1 years experience of in a 1L micra that it would be a great idea to go buy a 911 turbo. Which is basically the equivalent difference between a 125 and an R1.

You hear the old "the throttle works both ways" time and time again but it's not just a case of that. Anyone who rides powerful bikes knows that.

Besides, you can't fall off a car.

[extreme3d]

I see no reason why someone cannot go from a 125 to a thou. I've seen it done and combined with a fair amount of maturity there were no problems encountered.

However there is one piece of advice often overlooked and that is 'have fun'.

Going straight from a small bike to your pin-up poster dream bike will mean missing out on all the fun you can have progressing that bit slower as you incrementally increase power/handling.

In general, those who make that vast leap have a considerably shorter biking career as they run out of thrill once used to all that motorcycling can offer in terms of performance, and move on to other pursuits.

[sickpup]

Go straight to a big bike and you will never learn to ride well, you will be a point and squirt rider of which there are many on this forum and elsewhere.

I actually don't care what you do, I enjoy buying cheap salvage.

[Kickstart]

Hi

I would say the same to someone who had just passed their test and wanting a fast vehicle, irrespective of whether it is a bike or a car (and have been doing so to my brother who recently passed his car test).

Both can easily catch out someone with stuff all experience. To an extent the better the handling the bigger the problem is. The ultimate limit goes up, but the point where the handling gets a bit squirrelly to warn you gets even closer to the ultimate limit.

All the best

Keith
____________________
Traxpics, track day and racing photographs - Bimota Forum - Bike performance / thrust graphs for choosing gearing

[Poseidon]

Some very valid points on here! Appreciate the feedback. All the advice I've been given by fellow bikers has sunk in. I'm actually looking at moving onto a thundercat next, as it seems to tick all the boxes for me.

I think the problem may lie with the lack of justification people give. You fellows have given exemplary justifications to your advice. A trait missing from most advice I see being dished out. People who don't explain themselves properly when telling people to not get a bike beyond their "abilities" tend to come accross as self-righteous... In my mind anyways!
____________________
1977 Honda CG125
2002 Ducati Monster S4 (currently restoring)

[Mister James]

People who question other people's advice and motives can come across as being a bit self-righteous too!

[Poseidon]

[Mister James]

Bien sur!

[Hooky]

I have always believed it takes alot of skill to ride a "performance" bike , it takes time.

Any tosser can learn to drive a performance car to a reasonble standard in no time at all

[steppen22]

Don't think it's really true, though.

I'd suggest to a new driver that they stick to impotent little cars, to start of with.

This is for safety, but also because I think you should cut your teeth on powerless vehicles before you go onto powerful ones. Just like if you're learning an instrument, you go get a piece o shit guitar. You don't have a custom made Maton to learn how to play the D chord.

I'd never dream to recommend a friend go get a WRX, etc.

That's because I don't hang with chavs.
____________________
no regrets, no retreat, no apology.
I've made mistakes in the past, and I apologise for FUCK ALL.

[G]

As above, a fast car still is only similar to a fairly slow bike; maybe similar to a sports 600, rather than a litre bike.
Would the same people recommend going for a 500hp or so tuned scooby as your first car?

Of course, the car also has 4 wheel drive and ABS to help you cope when stuff gets a bit slippy.

As I've found cars (without TC) can easily get out of shape very easily, going slower than bikes.

If people say you should get a sports 600 rather than a Ducai 748 because you can't handle the 748, then they are idiots.
If they say don't get the 748 because it's an overly expensive tart's bike that falls apart, that makes more sense.
Similarly, the 955i is probably slower than most modern 600s and certainly a lot less 'sharp'.

There's further thought in that there's very little you can 'go' to from a litre sports bike as far as getting faster - a lot of people enjoying learning a bike at one level, then moving up to a bit faster one - you can miss a lot of the pleasure by going to the fastest first.

I suspect a lot of people that jump on to big bikes early on do hurt him themselves. The rest probably might as well be on a smaller bike anyway .

[st3v3]

It all somewhat depends if you care what others think, and how bothered you are of danger.

I've never really listened to what people have advised me, I've had some very close calls but im still here for the time being to rock on.

[ben350]

[G]

you do know I can edit other people's posts too if I want?

Anyway, yes they are quite pretty, if not a bit out dated. Still boring over priced Italian tat, though .

[Mystery]

i have a 125 upgraded from a 50 to it but yeah ok my 50 only went about 35 to my 125 doing about 100 mph, but when i do my test i would prefer to get a bike thats to my liking even if it is a 600 or 400.
____________________
Carbon knuckles assure you maximum protect against debris and unfortunate accidents or if someone cuts you off, their side mirror.Mopeds are like chubby chicks.. they are really fun to ride until you're friends catch you on one

[johnsmith222]

[Mystery]

[st3v3]

My NS125 does an indicated 95 hitting redline, almost stock.

Can't vouch for the speedo's reliability but I go for acceleration speed and use-able torque in bigger bikes.

2t 125's are pure kidz fun weekend toys unless your a yoofie that can't get/afford much else.