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Counter Steering

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rac3r
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PostPosted: 22:54 - 14 Oct 2009    Post subject: Counter Steering Reply with quote

This has been mentioned by quite a few people lately so I decided to find out what it actually is but all I did was end up confusing my self Laughing From what I've read you 'turn left to go right' Confused

Anyone care to explain in n00b terms?
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Muscle Bike Rider
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PostPosted: 22:55 - 14 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have a look at this site, loads of info including counter steering.

https://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=https://www.flamesonmytank.co.za/photos/steering.jpg&imgrefurl=https://www.flamesonmytank.co.za/ride.htm&usg=__vQCjC9obSCTO1EerOX2qbRpSl4A=&h=258&w=202&sz=9&hl=en&start=11&um=1&tbnid=2wrgk-5sItf2IM:&tbnh=112&tbnw=88&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dmotorcycle%2Blook%2Bthrough%2Bbend%26hl%3Den%26rlz%3D1T4DMUK_en-GBGB258GB258%26sa%3DN%26um%3D1
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ms51ves3
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PostPosted: 22:57 - 14 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Go out on your bike, take your left hand off the handlebar, pull on the right handlebar, you will go left. Push on the right handlebar and you will go right.
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Vin
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PostPosted: 22:58 - 14 Oct 2009    Post subject: Re: Counter Steering Reply with quote

rac3r wrote:

Anyone care to explain in n00b terms?

No, use google. Thumbs Up
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Jayy
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PostPosted: 23:37 - 14 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Waste of time really, who even uses it?
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chris-red
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PostPosted: 23:40 - 14 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

jay-recoil wrote:
Waste of time really, who even uses it?



Everyone.


There have been so many threads about it it could be the new "i want mi ped fastr lolz" thread.

Use the search.
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Alexio
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PostPosted: 00:02 - 15 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agreed, it's entirely impossible to steer without counter steering.

Here's another test you can do:

Find the biggest / steepest hill with a straight road that you can.

Ride to the top.

On your way down, let go of the handle bars with both hands - don't worry, it's not possible for the bike to fall over Razz

Next, try to lean the bike down as far as you can only by throwing your own body weight to the left or to the right.

Finally grab the handle bars in terror as you realise that this is entirely impossible to steer the bike more than a couple of degrees to the left or right.

This is what happens if you lock the front forks in place so it's impossible to turn the handle bars:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nRUeEkS644
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chris-red
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PostPosted: 03:01 - 15 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alexio wrote:


Here's another test you can do:

Find the biggest / steepest hill with a straight road that you can.

Ride to the top.

On your way down, let go of the handle bars with both hands - don't worry, it's not possible for the bike to fall over Razz




Confused
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DEN MONKEY
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PostPosted: 06:56 - 15 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

chris-red wrote:
Alexio wrote:


Here's another test you can do:

Find the biggest / steepest hill with a straight road that you can.

Ride to the top.

On your way down, let go of the handle bars with both hands - don't worry, it's not possible for the bike to fall over Razz


Confused


Actually this comment concerns me more


Alexio wrote:


Next, try to lean the bike down as far as you can only by throwing your own body weight to the left or to the right.



Shocked

It is entirely possible to take a corner by simply shifting your weight in the seat from left to right and will sure as shit turn you more than a few degrees in this manner.

So my suggestion is NOT to follow this advice.

For anyone who is questioning counter steering, this is not a good thing to try and do. It will result in tears.

Here's a couple of quick utube vids which might help with a visual demonstration.

click

click
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ToGGoT
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PostPosted: 07:07 - 15 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use it pretty much all the time - you get so used to doing it that you dont think about it.

Watch some of the youtube videos, then go out and have a go. Its surprisingly easy to figure out!

Makes a lot more difference on heavier bikes im told.

ToGGoT
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silky666
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PostPosted: 07:24 - 15 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

jay-recoil wrote:
Waste of time really, who even uses it?

?? Everyone that rides a bike faster than walking pace ??

You are probably doing it without realising Rolling Eyes
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arry
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PostPosted: 08:50 - 15 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

silky666 wrote:

You are probably doing it without realising Rolling Eyes


I was Laughing It was only when someone pointed it out to me, and I gave it a conscious go. Weird sensation at first.
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the grim reaper
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PostPosted: 09:14 - 15 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got a mate to do this on his mountain bike because he didn't believe us when me and a biking mate explained it to him. Sure enough, at about 20mph on the flat he tried it and was completely amazed Mr. Green

Moving your body weight alone will NOT get a bike round a corner. Superbike once fitted a second set of bars, mounted on the screen brace, and got some trackday people to try to steer the bike through body weight alone. The bike hardly moved and would certainly not have made it round a corner. The gyroscopic effects of the spinning wheels make a bike stand upright, how many times have we seen racers come off and then the bike picks itself up and carrier on until it hits something? I remember Foggy's Ducati parking itself against the pitwall after he had come off once (someone post the youtube link, it's blocked at work).

As a result of the bike wanting to stand up stright when moving, you need to change the angle of the gyroscopic front wheel relative to the direction of the bike, weirdly this is in the opposite direction to sensible thinking. There is the issue of canber thrust and tyre profile but I'm not getting into that now.

Cheers

Grim
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Gashead Harry
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PostPosted: 09:33 - 15 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Am I right in thinking that countersteering doesnt turn but helps lean the bike in better for when you do turn?

Sorry if that seems daft its just a concept im struggling to get me head around.
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Jayy
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PostPosted: 09:37 - 15 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

After making that comment and taking the bike out this morning, I realised that I do actually do it but never thought about it. Embarassed
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 10:23 - 15 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

jay-recoil wrote:
After making that comment and taking the bike out this morning, I realised that I do actually do it but never thought about it. Embarassed


https://api.ning.com/files/bGoXz-sZSKVBeA4GkB0LzLegHc*CSnmXVX1e2UOpKwXGGUOGHdTHIjDY2v3LH7tHCm2aTiTG2E76dClG4csi8oC34STkAyKX/nelson_haha2.jpg
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arry
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PostPosted: 11:23 - 15 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gashead Harry wrote:
Am I right in thinking that countersteering doesnt turn but helps lean the bike in better for when you do turn?

Sorry if that seems daft its just a concept im struggling to get me head around.


No, it will actually turn the bike.
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Alexio
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PostPosted: 11:37 - 15 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would like to apologise for for my obviously stupid advice of telling people to let go of their handle bars.

However, when ever I have done I find that it isn't possible to take any kind of sharp corner, but then maybe I'm always travelling at a speed that's fast enough to always require active counter steering. Yeah that would probably be it.
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ms51ves3: why does it need 500 miles? Are you teaching it how to be a piston?
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rac3r
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PostPosted: 12:25 - 15 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I've managed to make it round corners so maybe i'm doing it already? Laughing

I'll check out next time I go for a ride
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 12:36 - 15 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

the grim reaper wrote:
Moving your body weight alone will NOT get a bike round a corner. Superbike once fitted a second set of bars, mounted on the screen brace, and got some trackday people to try to steer the bike through body weight alone. The bike hardly moved and would certainly not have made it round a corner. The gyroscopic effects of the spinning wheels make a bike stand upright, how many times have we seen racers come off and then the bike picks itself up and carrier on until it hits something? I remember Foggy's Ducati parking itself against the pitwall after he had come off once (someone post the youtube link, it's blocked at work).


Have a read of this thread then work out where you are wrong in your assertion.
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arry
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PostPosted: 12:46 - 15 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

rac3r wrote:
Well I've managed to make it round corners so maybe i'm doing it already? Laughing

I'll check out next time I go for a ride


You will be. Just try it at 30mph in a straight line at first, and see what happens.
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rac3r
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PostPosted: 12:47 - 15 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

sickpup wrote:


Have a read of this thread then work out where you are wrong in your assertion.


Wow some interesting stuff there Thumbs Up

This vid on there from 'Map' is mental: https://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=6178043709180164205&q=japanese+motorcycle+cops
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Flip
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PostPosted: 12:57 - 15 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

I still don't feel like I counter steer, no matter how much stuff I read. Laughing
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bazza
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PostPosted: 13:07 - 15 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

flip wrote:
I still don't feel like I counter steer, no matter how much stuff I read. Laughing


Do you have a shaft drive? They can't countersteer. Or wheelie.
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Alexio
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PostPosted: 17:18 - 15 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

That ancient thread that was linked to just up there makes a really excellent suggestion. Try steering just one handed for a while.

Once you're in gear, take your left hand off of the handle bars (assuming you're now safe to do so and won't suddenly need the use of the clutch) and try some corners. You will indeed be forced to counter steer if you're going at any kind of speed.

In fact, I can remember adjusting my helmet and steering quite sharply a couple of times, and I didn't use my body to lean what so ever (it stayed where it was, balancing the bike towards the other direction).
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will never give up his CG. I look at my fuel gauge more as a progress bar than a fuel gauge.
G: With my GSXR I do often effectively use it as a scooter with a clutch in town.
ms51ves3: why does it need 500 miles? Are you teaching it how to be a piston?
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