Bike + Cyclist = Ouch

[Glen]

Although this happened way back in July, I've just found the photos again on my laptop so I thought I'd post them here for anyone bored/nosey enough to look at.

Driving home from work on July 23rd I took my normal 5 mile route along a mixture of A and B roads, entering on to a long 40mph zone, weather was good and the sun was behind me so visibility was excellent.

Coming to the end of the 40, aproaching a 60mph single carriage way I noticed two cyclists travelling in the same direction as me riding in single file about a foot from the curb. As I drew closer I moved to the outisde of the lane, giving the cyclists about 2m of clearance. Closing to about 10 meters the rear cyclist suddenly swerved across the road without any indication or doing a shoulder check causing me to swerve into the central reservation in an effort to avoid him. Unfortunately he continued oblivious of me into the reservation and I hit him square on at around 30ish.

Because I broke hard when I saw him moving across I ended up on just my front wheel before impact which catapulted me over the handlebars, leaving me unconcious in the central reservation.

Damage to him

Light concussion (says the Plod)

Damage to me

Fractured jaw in two places
15 stictches in my chin
What looks like permanent bruises on my knees where I hit the clipons as I went over
Some beautful roadrash on my back

Damage to the 636

Front end is mashed, lights, clocks split in two, mirrors, front and side fairings, seat unit, frame marked, rearsets snapped, destroyed rear shock, split clutch casing,

https://bikechatforums.com/files/dsc_0435.jpg

https://bikechatforums.com/files/dsc_0434.jpg

https://bikechatforums.com/files/dsc_0433.jpg

https://bikechatforums.com/files/dsc_0431.jpg

https://bikechatforums.com/files/dsc_0430.jpg

https://bikechatforums.com/files/ouch_190.jpg

Because I was insured TFPT (yes I know) there was no insurance payment because the cyclist, a 12 year old boy obviously had no insurance to claim from so I'm left with a mangled bike and tbh I'm not sure what to do with it..

I can't really afford to repair it currently but I'm unsure on which will get me the most from whats left by either breaking it up and selling it as parts or selling it as is... any advice would be welcomed on what I might be able to expect from it

[G]

I believe the MIB may well be able to get you some money for your injuries.

It's also worth seeing what can be done about the rest - for instance if the kid's parents have home insurance, it's possible that may cover some stuff - suspect this is less likely, however.

Was the kid on his own? Not sure on the law, but personally think the parents SHOULD be responsible, etc.

Incidentally, can probably get the bike usable again (if not pretty) for not much.

[Ste]

Ouch

[instigator]

Am I right in thinking you haven't touched the bike since July and it's still in the same state?

Not sure where you are located but I'm sure if you ask, you may find some helpful BCF'ers willing to assist on, at least, patching it up to get it back on the road. Unfortunately, I anticipate to get it back to it's original condition, you may be looking at a pretty penny (More than £600 in second hand parts)

[Glen]

[MaybeGuy]

i hope you gave the kid the concussion after the accident.
ive got a damaged front end from a zx6r j1/j2 that should fit your a1p. nowhere near as trashed as yours though. got the intakes and spider frame too. all straight
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Blue_SV650S wrote: it was a sh1te wheelie, but it proves that he can get it up in 3rd and can do angles. In summery, mattsprattuk is a gobby little sh1tebag, dopehead tw4t, but sadly for all of us, he probably isn't THAT full of sh1te!!
Kickstart wrote: Hi I tend to agree with Matt. All the best Keith

[Glen]

[MaybeGuy]

[Glen]

[colin1]

I'm a bit puzzled how you fractured your jaw.

I tend to think full face helmets protect against that sort of thing ?

Were you wearing a flip front helmet or open face helmet ?

If it was full face, was it a quick release strap rather than 2 d rings ?
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colin1 is officially faster than god

[Wilson123]

[Glen]

[Paulington]

Funnily enough I find that with Shoeis, that my chin is uncomfortably close to the chin bar.

Hope you heal up soon mate, and the MIB get you something for the bike and you. .
____________________
"Four wheels move the body, two wheels move the soul."
Current Vehicles: '89 Kawasaki KDX200, '99 Yamaha XV535, '00 Honda ST1100 Pan-European, '08 Suzuki GSX-R1000, '08 Mitsubishi Lancer GS4 2.0 TDCi, '15 BMW 1 Series 116d Sport Turbo.
CBT: 27/08/08. Theory: 04/09/09. Module 1: 16/09/09. Module 2: 01/10/09.

[Finglonga]

This is the reason push bikes and horses IMO should be made to take out insurance if they are on public roads as if they cause an accident they get away scott free.
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Andy Sez....
F.Y.Y.F.F.

[Muscle Bike Rider]

Hope you feel better soon mate, could you not use one of those no win no fee claims, anything would be better than nothing if they were able to sue his parents?
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Previously Known As A5tra_G
Old Bikes :2010 Kawasaki ER6 F & 2000 Honda VTR Firestorm
Current Bike : XJR1300

[Poseidon]

With regards to liabilty, this site has some interesting stuff
https://www.cyclistsdefencefund.org.uk/road-traffic-incidents

I know these people are about defending cyclists, but gives you an idea of their liabilty. Since the kid was 12, I'd assume it's his parents that are resposible and therefore can be taken to court to compensate you for your losses.

Drew
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1977 Honda CG125
2002 Ducati Monster S4 (currently restoring)

[Glen]

Is there any validity to the notion that I might be inviting a counter claim if I try and seek damages?

I don't really want to try and claim for my bike and gear (helmet, leathers, boots, gloves: all destroyed) only to be hit with some frivilous injury claim in return

Will have to look at this in more detail tomorrow.

Glen

EDIT: Also this week I got a letter from the South Yorkshire Constabularly stating that they're taking the incident no further etc etc...

[Poseidon]

There's only grounds for a counter claim if there is joint resposnsibilty for the accident. Their biggest argument would be that you should've excercised caution when passing children on pushbikes, as you can pretty much expect them to do something erratic. How much weight that would hold in court I don't know, but it is always a possibility. (you could use the argument that you had slowed for them, but there's only so much caution you can show before you become a potential hazards to other road users yourself)

Cyclists are a nuisance on the roads and the courts don't always favour them.

Cyclists have to have lights fitted front and back and they have to be switched on whilst riding on the roads.

They have to travel at speeds appropriate to their surroundings, i.e able to stop/change direction should something unforseen happen

They should be wearing a helmet, if they aren't wearing one, they are a danger to themselves and prove themselves to be irresponsible

They should be aware of their surroundings, i.e, not riding as fast as they can with their heads down pedalling like the clappers. (the fact this lad swerved right across the road without any obs/indication says he failed on this one majorly!)

Personally I would go and speak to a solicitor (and not one of the ambulance chasers off the telly). As far as I'm aware, because cyclists have no-one to insure them, the MIB are the people who will be in court/paying out should you win, so I doubt you'll end up bankrupting a family. Also, you may well get legal aid to help with the fees.

Good luck anyways fella, whatever you decide to do... it's always heartbreaking to see a biker/bike in a bad way, whatever the cause!
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1977 Honda CG125
2002 Ducati Monster S4 (currently restoring)

[Shreddie]

[Ste]

Don't think it's anything to do with the MIB, they provide cover when the driver is required to have third party insurance but the driver was untraceable or was uninsured. There's no requirement for pushbikes to be insured so I don't think the MIB will get involved.

The idea of cyclists having to have insurance is a joke. If nothing else, it would be completely unenforceable.

There is no requirement for cyclists to have lights fitted front and back and they have to be switched on whilst riding on the roads, they only have to use lights when it's dark.

There is no requirement for them to be wearing a helmet. "if they aren't wearing one, they are a danger to themselves and prove themselves to be irresponsible" What are you basing that on? They're not being a danger to themselves and they're not being irresponsible, they're quire entitled to decide for themselves if they want a helmet.

If you try and seek damages then they could try counter claiming for their damages, however you've got an insurance company that will pay to defend you if someone tries to claim. Do you have any witnesses?

[Poseidon]

I never said wearing a helmet was a requirement, just makes them look irresposible and wreckless if they don't. And I'm not suggesting that they all should have insurance. WIth regards to MIB, when a cyclist damaged my mates car (the cyclist underpassed him whilst turning left), MIB paid for the repairs as the cyclists was an uninsured road user. Assumed it would be a similar situation in this circumstance.

As for the lights, apparently it's a new thing, according to the CDF:

[Glen]

Well just spoke with the MIB who have advised me they can't deal with my claim because it was a push bike and not motor vehicle that caused the accident which has annoyed me somewhat

Off to go google a decent solicitor who specalises in traffic altercations

EDIT:

Have spoken to a solicitor who specializes in Bike claims; he was quite helpful but made it pretty clear that without the parents having home insurance the case would be pretty much a pointless endeavor.

Anyhow I've spoken to the SY police and they're sending me the details of the lad and his address so I can progress it further. Thanks for your help guys will keep you posted.

[nstrug]

Whether or not the parents have insurance is irrelevant - you can still take them to court and get an award made against them. It may make sense to check whether they will have the capacity to pay - go for a drive past their house, and make an honest assessment of whether they are the kind of people who have home insurance or cash.

If you decide to go ahead with it, you don't need a solicitor. The small claims track of the county courts allows you to claim up to £5000, the court fees are minimal and generally costs are not awarded to the winning side (and if they are they are limited to £200).

Stage 1 is to send a 'Without Prejudice' letter to the kid's parents stating:

1. The complete facts of the incident, with supporting photographs of the scene and diagrams of the incident

2. A description of the damages to the bike with full photographs and costings for repair (unfortunately you will have to skip the personal injury stuff, as you can't do that via small claims)

3. What you expect them to do about it - i.e. the sum that you expect them to settle on.

It is a good idea to include a copy of the letter and photos for their insurance company if they have one.

If you hear back from their insurance company DO NOT RESPOND. It is their responsibility to deal with their insurance, not yours.

If you hear nothing back, download a copy of the small claim application notice, fill it in, and send them a photocopy with a covering letter saying that you will file a claim if you do not hear back from them within 10 working days.

If you still hear nothing back, or they refuse to settle with you, send the allocation questionnaire to the court, and once you have got confirmation to proceed, send in the application notice.

I'm not sure what happens then as the bastard landlords that I've used this process on before always cough up the deposit at this point.

Of course if the defendants have nothing to lose (no assets and no insurance) then they will probably just ignore you, but if it looks like a nice house with a decent motor in the drive, they will probably cough up.

Nick

[Poseidon]

Why would you send a letter "without prejudice"? I was always under the impression that "without prejudice" is for making offers and such out of court which could otherwise prejudice a decision by a judge (essentialy without prejudice means "not for the eyes of the court" i.e if someone offers you £10000 as full and final settlement, you can't then turn to the court and say "they offered me 10grand, they must know they're in the wrong).

If you're going down the small claims court route, you need to send a preliminary letter stating how much you want and why and give them a time frame to respond by settling in full. If they don't settle in full in this time (even if they have offered a lesser non acceptable amount), you then send a Letter Before Action giving them a little more time to settle in full (acceptable time frame is 28days), but also explaining it's their last chance to settle before you start court proceedings. There's no point putting "without prejudice" on these letters as you will want the judge to see them as they are the basis for your case. If it goes to court and they look like they aren't going to pay, you can send them a letter saying you will accept half and drop all court proceedings against them, but that will need without prejudice on the letter as a judge could take that as you taking part liability.

I personally would still go to a solicitor and let them do all the work. It's easy to get bogged down in the legal system and easy to balls everything up. I'm not one for compo claims (the "I fell and hurt my knee, now give me some dosh" type) , but when you've been left properly out of pocket, it's only fair the person who caused the accident should foot the bill, not the victim.

Drew
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1977 Honda CG125
2002 Ducati Monster S4 (currently restoring)

[Ste]

Without prejudice means that the document cannot be used in court without permission from both parties. So when you're trying to resolve something before seeking resolution from the courts, adding without prejudice to your letters is just covering your back.

I would suggest getting legal advice before doing anything that involves litigation. That can be speaking with citizens advice bureau (whilst it's not legal advice, they do know what they're talking about and are able to advice you where to go next) or it could be speaking with solicitors.

Please remember that if you take it to the courts then you have to be able to show that you've made reasonable attempts to settle the dispute before involving the courts. Hypothetically, if you haven't done that then you could win your case but also have to pay the other sides costs that were incurred as a result of it being taken to court.

Have you spoken with the parents of the kid?