Climate Change - do you believe it?

[UnknownStuntm...]

OK, so the world is warming up a little. Not much, and I doubt whether I'd believe any official figures in the light of the recent massaging of truth coming out of the UEA, the mouthpiece of the scientific study of climate change (*may not be, just how I see it...)
I don't believe that by using combustion engines and building stuff we're having much of an effect on the earth warming up at all. I think the way farming habits are changing *may* have something to do with it, with filthy bovines guffing all day every day until they're big enough to be sliced and mixed with gravel and placed between a McSlice-o-cheese and a McBun. And maybe by cutting all the forests down in the world to make oil for pole dancers. But that's about it.
Did a previous race of mammals cause the last ice age or did it just happen? The history of the earth is pretty immense, and our records are only from scientific study, some of the results of which we can't really, honestly trust because of the above revelation.
Anyone care to share their views? I feel like I need some layman's clue.

[The Shaggy D.A.]

Yes, I believe the climate is changing. Are we accelerating the change? Possibly. Does it really matter? No. Are big corporations going to profit out of the FUD? Yes. Are governments going to find a way of extracting more money out of us because of it? Yes.
____________________
Chances are quite high you are not in my Monkeysphere, and I don't care about you. Don't take it personally.
Currently : Royal Enfield 350 Meteor
Previously : CB100N > CB250RS > XJ900F > GT550 > GPZ750R/1000RX > AJS M16 > R100RT > Bullet 500 > CB500 > LS650P > Bullet Electra X & YBR125 > Bullet 350 "Superstar" & YBR125 Custom > Royal Enfield Classic 500 Despatch Limited Edition (28 of 200) & CB Two-Fifty Nighthawk > ER5

[UnknownStuntm...]

[Hetzer]

Is the climate changing? Based upon the fact it has done so, cyclicly, for millenia, yes. Are we causing it? No. Does it matter if we are? No. Does it matter if we are and it wipes out all life on earth? No. Why? Because this is a video game and there are plenty more on the shelf.
____________________
"There's the horizon! Ride hard, ride fast and cut down all who stand in your way!"

[Alexio]

Fact:

There is more CO2 in the atmosphere than we've ever managed to find before.

Another fact:

CO2 atmosphere levels are directly linked to global temperature.

Most of this research is based upon cutting in to the ice shelf in the Arctic, the bubbles in the ice trap a snapshot of the atmosphere going back hundreds of thousands of years. It also shows the average temperature because they can examine how quickly the ice formed in those times too.

Lots of data out there but seeming as there has never been a recorded amount of CO2 in the air before as much as there is now.... it's completely unknown how much of an effect it will have, if any at all.

Edit: Data
____________________
will never give up his CG. I look at my fuel gauge more as a progress bar than a fuel gauge.
G: With my GSXR I do often effectively use it as a scooter with a clutch in town.
ms51ves3: why does it need 500 miles? Are you teaching it how to be a piston?

[iooi]

Yes the climate is changing. As it has done for the whole life span of this planet.
Can we make any difference to it... Doubt it.....

Lets face it C02 which they say is the bit we need to reduce the most. Is the very life blood of this planet.

No C02, then there is no water, So no life on earth.....


The biggest farce of this is people are making massive amounts of money on the back of something that cannot be proved. As there is no accurate data going back far enough.

Remember back in the 70's because we had a couple of bad winters. We were heading into the next ice age.... I guess they lost the plot on that one......

Look at the farce of this conference going on at the moment..... They expect you and me to cut down on travel etc...
Yet here we have 15 thousand people travelling to the conference... Wonder how many of them cycled/walked there. Never mind all the cars that the leader will be using while they are there.
Did they not think that they could simply have used video conferencing to cover it.....
Doh silly me it would mean that they would not get a all expenses paid trip to a nice place for a few weeks on us.....
____________________
Just because my bike was A DIVVY, does not mean i am......

[Alexio]

Well, the climate is changing. How much we don't know, which is why nothing can be proved. What most people who support global warming point to is this data though:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Co2-temperature-plot.svg

It has very worrying implications if accurate. Global temperatures will rise, we just don't know how much.
____________________
will never give up his CG. I look at my fuel gauge more as a progress bar than a fuel gauge.
G: With my GSXR I do often effectively use it as a scooter with a clutch in town.
ms51ves3: why does it need 500 miles? Are you teaching it how to be a piston?

[Kickstart]

Hi

Basic science says yes, but that same basic science also says the warming is at about 1/3 the level those pushing the agenda mention. The extra is coming from positive feedbacks, but it still seems that there is virtually no understanding of feedbacks, let alone enough to say how much positive / negative effect they have on climate.

So, yes, I do think that a rise in CO2 levels can cause an increase in temperature.

However whether that rise is noticeable in the noise of general changes in temperature is another question. Also how much of the CO2 level increase is down to human activity is another question (eg, in past warming periods CO2 levels have increased after the warming, possibly due to changes in the amount of CO2 held by sea water reducing as temperatures increase). Temperatures have certainly increased over the last few centuries, but then they also reduced over the centuries before that.

How much temperatures have varied over the centuries is difficult to know as the only ways to tell are going back through records that are certainly not that accurate, or from dubiously accurate proxy measures (ie, tree rings, etc). We have reasonably accurate measures for the last couple of centuries, but some of those were not well collected. Others have suffered from major problems with the area they are collected in (ie, if the site where the temperatures were collected went from being a rural field to an urban centre then the temperature will increase - see urban heat islands). We only have about 30 years of truely accurate temperature records which are the satellite based records which started in December 1978. These do show some warming although the hottest year was 1998. You can use this to claim cooling since 1998, or use it to claim that most years since then have been above average. Whether this is CO2 related is another question.

The figures for global temp are here:-

https://vortex.nsstc.uah.edu/public/msu/t2lt/tltglhmam_5.2

Quick play, plotting those monthly figures of 12 month rolling average you get a graph like this (Oct 1979 to November 2009):-

https://www.alfa-pages.co.uk/TempPicture/TempHist.JPG

What we have certainly been hit for is a lot of propaganda. Trouble with this is that if there is a real problem (either on warming or anything else) then the scientific community will not be believed. Sure might not all be the scientists fault, but some do seem to have been playing the political game, coming out with scare stories and seeking the evidence to support their opinion rather than seeking the evidence to prove or disprove their theories. Politicians have jumped on it with glee.

At least the ideas are now being questioned, and those who are not convinced are heard (even if that is in insulting or condescending terms from the BBC and the like). 10~15 years ago it was just accepted.

All the best

Keith
____________________
Traxpics, track day and racing photographs - Bimota Forum - Bike performance / thrust graphs for choosing gearing

[Kickstart]

[Mushroom]

[Alexio]

[supZ]

havent read the replies but this is my view..

climate change is real but we are not affecting it. at least not in any significant way
____________________
CBR954RR - Daily toy
CBR600RR - Trackbike

[Skudd]

Global warming is a fact, it has happened many times before and will happen many times again.
there was once a time when oxygen was considered a poison the the inhabitants on this planet, co3 is needed to protect the planet.

Carbon tax is like having a tide tax at the seaside. tax everyone and the tide goes out twice a day. Proves taxes work.
Man is making the planet untidy and using up some of the resources, but one day man will be a used up resource.

Instead of taxing the rich countries, make the developing countries go through their own industrial revolution and use birth control for their population. ( or leave the diseases to do their work as nature intended)

Apparently I'm a 'Flatlander' in the debate, but it is better than being a Zealot in the new religion that is Global Warming.
____________________
Famous last words of Humpty Dumpty. " Stop pushing me "
Petty Anarchists look at "1984".............. The Visionary looks at "Animal Farm".

[Kickstart]

[Hetzer]

Let's put it like this...if the current tech we have can't reliably predict the weather more than a couple of days ahead (and quite often not even tomorrow's) how are we supposed to believe they can calculate something momentously more complex?

They can't.
____________________
"There's the horizon! Ride hard, ride fast and cut down all who stand in your way!"

[AngelGrinder]

It's happening, but I don't think it's much to do with us.

I think we need to have a look at the Suns cycle rather than our own planets.

My main problem is how the government are pushing it again. The country is in a recession, and having huge debt and money problems, but we can afford several billion pounds to help 'poorer' countrys clean up their C02, yet millions struggling in this country for a decent paid job just to afford a house, and get a crappy job for minimum wage, are going to be taxed even higher....while the higher echelons of society still fly around in private jets, drive big 4x4's go out on their expensive power boat.

That advert encouraging us to drive 5 miles left a week....are they serious? How about suggesting that businessmen take standard class on the aeroplane, which would mean you can fit far more people on the damn thing. But no, wouldn't want to upset the high society, ruin the lower/middle classes lives a bit more.
____________________
Currently Riding - 2002 Aprilia RSV1000 Mille

[Bubbs]

If it is happening then bring it on.

Wales has a shit climate, any change would be a good one. If it get's colder then more snow which is good. If it gets hotter then more chilling on the beach and riding in t-shirt. Great.
____________________
Life begins at the end of your comfort zone.

[The Shaggy D.A.]

[Bubbs]

[D O G]

I accept that the climate is changing, as it always will. I also will accept that increased CO2 does have a warming effect. I'll go even further and accept that humans' activities contribute significantly to CO2 levels.

What I will not accept is that this is the ONLY reason why any climate changes are happening. To do so is niave in the extreme, it is such a complex system that simply attributing any changes to just one factor is gobsmackingly simplistic that it absolutely must be wrong.

It is also convenient that the thing which is apparently causing this issue just happens to be consumption. Consumption which makes our life easier and more comfortable. Consumption which must be purchased, and therefore easy to tax.

Michael Portillo made a good point last week on 'This Week' (in the face of some abhorrent comments from journalist Nick Cohen), in that you NEVER hear about any potential benefits should the Earth get hotter. Never.

It is always death, disaster, destruction of humanity, nothing positive, when surely there must be some positive aspects - like opening up of new areas for cultivation. The debate whether we should try and adapt to the change or stop it simply has never happened. Trying to alter the climate by reducting our emissions seems a lot like King Canute's attidute to stopping the tide. we could, if the climate is going to get hotter, put our resources into adapting our society to that 'fact'. It never gets discussed, or rather it hasn't to this point.

Why not? Because if we did have that debate, then that would remove the control the authorities have over us, it would remove the validity of their taxation policies, and ruin their rhetoric.

I hope that we are near to the tipping point - more dissenting voices are being heard, and pressure from the believers to actually do something other than raise taxes is rising too. There is pressure building up in this, the facts are uncertain, there are other options, and the economic crisis hasn't helped - people don't like paying green taxes to save the planet when they don't have enough money week to week to provide for their families.

The next 5 years will see the policy of restraint collapse, I believe. Because after all, restraint means immediate suffering, if there is another way proposed which doesn't involve that, people will be attracted to it. That voice has been stifled through blanket pro-restraint media for the past decade, not for much longer methinks.

[Alexio]

[Kickstart]

[D O G]

[ms51ves3]

I laughed yesterday when a woman on the news said that since the last ice age, the Earth has warmed up by 5°c and that's how much it will warm up by within the next century

I've never heard such rubbish.

[Alexio]

Heck I was trying to keep a conversation going, unfortunately I agree with all of you guys. The one disadvantage to global warming that keeps popping up though are things linked to the general pollution of the earth, air pollution and potential forest fires etc. That isn't really climate change but just man destroying the earth, which people think is the cause of climate change which is why it's mentioned... but whatever.

What I'm trying to say is that the earth is changing and we ought to change the way we are changing it. Not because I'm afraid that the day after tomorrow is coming, that it's getting warmer and the end is neigh, just because all of the pollution is making me sad.
____________________
will never give up his CG. I look at my fuel gauge more as a progress bar than a fuel gauge.
G: With my GSXR I do often effectively use it as a scooter with a clutch in town.
ms51ves3: why does it need 500 miles? Are you teaching it how to be a piston?