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| TJenkos |
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TJenkos
Nitrous Nuisance
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| johnsmith222 |
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johnsmith222
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| daesimps |
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daesimps
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| Pragma |
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Pragma
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Joined: 10 Feb 2008
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 Posted: 09:06 - 01 Apr 2010  Post subject: |
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| daesimps wrote: | An alternative if you don't want to buy a stupidly long chain to go through bothe bikes is this:-
Buy 2 locks and 2 anti-pinch pins from pragmasis. Buy 1 chain. Put a pin through each of the bikes with the "head" end of the pin on the outside. Put a chain from the pin on one bike through the ground anchor and up to the other pin (with the ground anchor between the bikes). You should be able to use a much shorter chain this way.
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This is Steve from Pragmasis, the manufacturer of the Anti-Pinch Pin. I just wanted to say this is a good idea but _only_ if it is completely obvious (to the thief) that there is no way the Pin could be pulled through either bike. E.g. if both bikes were lucky enough to have nice hollow rear axles that the Pins fit through, the thief is likely to think he's just going to be wasting his time and will probably give up straight away. That is the effect we want to achieve. On the other hand, if one or other Pin is going past the carbs/cables/exhaust/etc and if there is a chance that it could be pulled back, they may be tempted to have a go. They may not succeed, but if they've broken cables or gouged the paintwork etc you've still had a bad day.
Another worthwhile tip is to keep the chain (and lock) off the floor as it is a lot harder for a thief to attack if it's all 'swinging in the wind'. People often say that's counter to using a ground anchor as that is automatically on the floor, but our Torc anchor, at least, is designed to be tough enough to withstand any likely attack and there is enough height inside the shackle on it to allow the chain to form an arc whilst still being clear of the ground. Using an intermediate link on the chain rather than the end link, often helps to get the chain the right length to allow this. You have to pull the sleeve back or cut a slit in it, but it is worth doing if it stops the chain resting on the floor.
Having the anchor underneath one or other bike is also a good move. If there is no room to swing a sledge hammer and if it's all up in the air, the thief's attack options are seriously limited.
Another idea can be to put the anchor on the wall, but brickwork (and especially blockwork) is invariably _much_ weaker than concrete. If the anchor is any good, it is the substrate that limits the strength of the fixing, so even though the floor is, err, on the floor, we usually recommend that as the best choice for siting the anchor. It's not always clear-cut, though, so we're always happy to talk to people if they aren't sure of the best option.
If anyone has no idea what we are talking about, hopefully these links will help with some photos etc:
https://www.torc-anchors.com/torc-ground-anchor.php
https://www.torc-anchors.com/anti-pinch-pin.php
Hope that helps,
Steve.
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Pragma
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Posted: 09:40 - 01 Apr 2010  Post subject: Re: Almax chain size and lock |
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| TJenkos wrote: | Looking to purchase an Almax Series 3 soon and wanted some advice!
Ill be using it to chain 2 bikes up in the garage along with a ground anchor, what size would you recommend?
Also CISA or Squire locks?
Is the Hardie ground anchor best or any others out there worth looking at?
Ta |
Ah, forgot to make some comments about the original post 
We consider our Protector 16mm and 19mm chains to be equivalent to Almax's chains. We do not say the same about any of the other 16mm or 19mm chains on the market, however. As far as I know, we are the only two manufacturers that are using raw 16mm and 19mm chain from Europe (not from China) and that is heat treated to a tight specification in the UK, and we both use the same heat treatment company, because they are the best. As far as I know, the other manufacturers are all using cheaper lower-grade HT in the UK or are bringing in finished chain from China with the HT even worse! We've tested numerous Chinese chains and a common problem is that the steel specification is very variable (usually unknown!) and that means the heat treatment is a lottery - if you don't know the steel spec accurately, you can't heat treat it properly, and heat treatment on a security chain is critical. More info on our chains on:
https://www.torc-anchors.com/security-chains.php
Regarding locks, I'd say the Squire SS65CS lock is the one everyone rates as being the best and it is Sold Secure approved so it ticks the box for your insurance. Cisa make good locks but AFAIK none of them are approved so could invalidate your insurance. The 'Untouchable' lock is another option that is approved and widely regarded as top quality, but it is limited in how you can use it - e.g. it will fit a 16mm chain and not a lot else.
Also beware that all anchors are not the same. Various vendors have claimed Sold Secure approval when it is out of date or has never been granted. The only way to be sure is to check for yourself on the Sold Secure web site. E.g. you can see what we've got approved at any time with the following:
https://www.soldsecure.com/search?name=pragmasis
Also, Sold Secure Caravan Gold is a much higher level than Motorcycle Gold.
If your security is not Sold Secure approved at least at Motorcycle Gold standard throughout and your bike is stolen, your insurance may refuse to pay out. It gets into a very murky area as no insurer spells out their policy clearly enough in my opinion, and I personally prefer to have security that stops the thief before he even gets started so insurance is less of an issue. You should still be aware of it as a potential criterion in your selection.
Hope that helps,
Steve.
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and
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Pragma
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| Posted: 10:03 - 01 Apr 2010 Post subject: |
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| ulthar wrote: | Have their been any tests on the Untouchable lock? Looks like it could be a good lock but I wonder if it is not vulnerable to hammer attacks? Could it not be smashed apart? I can't find any information on the manufacturer of it either. |
Yes, it is Sold Secure Motorcycle Gold and ATV Gold. It is included in the 19mm chain package from PJB:
https://www.soldsecure.com/search///untouchable-19mm-security-chain-untouchable-lock.html
The photo of the lock isn't much good there so here's a photo on our site:
https://www.torc-anchors.com/proddetail.php?prod=Untouchable
It's made by a company called Vector Security, in Germany, I believe.
Sold Secure, PJB, we and I believe Almax all regard it as an excellent lock. When it is locking a 16mm chain, there is very little to attack. Hammering it isn't likely to achieve a lot as you're likely to be hammering it together rather than apart, IYSWIM.
As I remember, a tensile test on the shackle failed at 8 tonnes whereas the SS65CS takes 10 tonnes. However, I can't see any way a thief could apply that kind of pull in any realistic situation (for either lock).
Hope that helps,
Steve.
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| mr-inteligent |
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mr-inteligent
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Pragma
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| Posted: 09:58 - 03 Apr 2010 Post subject: |
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| mr-inteligent wrote: | Hi Pragma.
Can 42" bolt croppers get a grip on a 16mm chain? |
Hiya,
I'd say if it's a decent quality 16mm chain, it's virtually impossible to get a good grip on it with 42" croppers, and the amount of leverage you can exert on the chain is very limited as the jaws are open so wide - the chain link tends to just jump out each time you apply pressure. The 42" croppers are only designed to be used with up to about 13mm non-hardened mild steel, so trying to use them on 16mm hardened boron steel is pushing them a long way.
However, if it's a poor quality chain, e.g. with poor hardening or with bad welds, there is much more of a chance that you can cut it with croppers.
For example, here is a photo of an Oxford Nemesis 16mm chain link we had when they were trying to get us to sell their chains:
https://www.torc-anchors.com/images/P1000574-lowres.JPG
and
https://www.torc-anchors.com/images/P1000575-lowres.JPG
You can see the welds are absolutely attrocious, with fissures and incomplete fusion etc etc.
I understand that their quality has improved a bit since then but I would never trust a supplier that offered something like that for sale, especially in a product where the weld quality is important.
If the steel has been butchered when the link has been shaped and if the weld is irregular or has cracks/holes in it, you can be confident that it won't do as good a job as it should.
For comparison, here is a photo of one our our Protector 16mm chains:
https://www.torc-anchors.com/prodimages/Protector16-Offcut-closeup-lrg.jpg
That is actually from one of our earliest batches and our more recent chains are technically better, but the welds are always of comparable quality to that photo. At least that should give you an idea of what to look for when comparing chains.
Hope that helps,
Steve.
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