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Becoming a self employed man in van?

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garth
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Joined: 15 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: 18:30 - 05 May 2010    Post subject: Becoming a self employed man in van? Reply with quote

Hi

My brother is considering becoming a courier in a van. He is already self employed. A van is no issue. He's 24.

Has anyone ever done this? Know anyone that has? Basically any info would be appreciated. Thumbs Up
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swanny
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PostPosted: 18:34 - 05 May 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

i know one idea is to contact couriers like tnt who do self emplyment, then use this a s stable financial base
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Phoenix
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PostPosted: 18:42 - 05 May 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

He'll need courier insurance and Goods in Transit, the courier insurance is going to be extremely expensive and probably very difficult to find until he's 25. Before he even buys a van though he should get work in place, most of the major courier firms, DPD, TNT HDNL, Initial and DHL etc will employ owner drivers to do work as and when required it cannot be relied on at the moment though, he'd be best off trying to secure an exclusive contract with a company rather than just competing with all the other ones out there for the scraps from the big firms.
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garth
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PostPosted: 18:50 - 05 May 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

He's 25 in four months time, so no massive deal there. Thanks very much so far for the quick reponse.
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WildGoose
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PostPosted: 22:31 - 05 May 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've thought about it, a lot. I can't work out how it will ever pay me more than working for someone else, plus I will have to work four times as hard, and be liable to ill health through stress. Doesn't seem worth it, but each to his own.

I know a van courier who did self employed working for a firm in Reading (won't give the name just now). I don't know the guy very well, but he now just minces about in our yard at work doing odd jobs for the farmer there.

He had to jack the courier thing because he could not make it pay. It was his own van, but the courier companies livery, and I assume he could only do jobs for them, so you will have to read contracts carefully. Owner operator has far more freedom, but also without prior contacts in the transport game will have a much greater battle to secure work, let alone regular work.

Another example I can tell you about was a bloke on the transit forum (ex HGV driver apparently) who started up as a van + trailer owner operator. He thought it would be a good idea to spend thousands turning the entire van into a living space and just letting the trailer make the money. He refused to listen to good advice. I.e. you won't make money running the length of the country with a 2.5tonne payload returning 18 miles to the gallon. He was mostly transporting small plant/ride on lawnmowers and such, mostly one at a time, and didn't seem to get many backloads.

Meanwhile spending and spending on shiny toys and accessories for the van + outfit.

He threw his toys out of the pram one day after he was offered one piece of good advice too many that went against his own opinion (he just wanted people to suck his cock over the forum and people got bored of it eventually) and deleted every single forum post so unfortunately I cannot provide a link(there were over 100) and a few weeks later his van and trailer appeared up on ebay.

I digress.

Most importantly;
Just make sure your brother knows exactly what a mile and an hour of his own time will cost him, and that he makes sure he never takes a job below that in order "to keep the wheels turning" or for any other reason. If you get your costing right from the start you might get somewhere (it won't be pot of gold territory).

Pick the right van, there are plenty of shit ones, and a few major breakdowns can put you under, either directly or by losing you contracts that you couldn't fulfill.

Remember fixed costs, -vehicle purchase/lease cost + any relevant interest rates applicable if he takes a loan out for it etc.
-Insurance(s) (to include public liability and goods in transit) and road tax.
-Drivers wages (he has to pay himself something)
-vehicle depreciation,
-mobile phone contract + bills,
-accounts, stationary,
-bank charges,
-advertising,
-valeting,
-premises rent etc etc etc.

These are all fixed, and will need to be paid for whether you turn a wheel or not. So you divide the total cost of that lot per annum, and divide it by your expected amount of working days per year.

That is your daily standing cost, and that will need to be covered every day you work (and if you miss any days it will need to be made up for).

Consider them a time related cost, you can use this to work out a cost per week, per day and per hour (yes, its important).

Running costs; fuels, oils + fluids, tyres, maintenance and servicing.

These are all dependant on mileage, to arrive at costs per mile, you will need to estimate/decide upon an annual mileage, and divide the annual costs by that.

Work out a budget for maintenance (difficult in the first year) and also plan to budget in some extra for those unforseen things that go bang.

Manage tyres properly, check pressures regularly, rotate as needed, and get in with a good national tyre service (to rescue you at the side of the road and possibly to manage your old/part worns in a tyre bank).

You will need to arrive at a running cost in pence per mile made up of the sum:
-Tyre cost per mile +
-Maintenance cost per mile +
-Fuel cost per mile

You can't really quantify lubricants so just round up to the nearest penny to cover it.

I wouldn't advise running transport (maybe other businesses) without letting the taxman know, so VAT may come into it also.

To charge for your services, add the appropriate time and mileage related costs together (these are just costs, you have made no money yet) then add a % for profit - as much as you can get away with basically - but say 10% for example.

With mileage related costs, always get the exact postcode/address and don't just use nearest town. Could be 30 miles out of your way in each direction, then bang goes your profit margin.

Bear in mind depending on client, people may want to know your cost per tonne, per cubic metre, per mile or per pallet. So obviously you need to know your payload and your volume capacity. So point buying a van that can't accept a standard 1000x1200 pallet through the back end and possibly through the side load door.

It's the idiots who agree to take the low rate jobs that have no ability of meeting the costs push the prices down and generally cause problems in the industry, with fuel prices going the way they are, let someone else be the "busy fool".

Cost it right. If people are calling you a tight bastard, you are probably doing it correctly.

Hope thats of some help, best of luck to him.
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Itchy
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PostPosted: 23:25 - 05 May 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

As a side, there is also being a 'little airplane' I have no idea what the word is in English so that is a direct Chinese translation.

Anyway at Roborough we delivered supplies to the many restuarants and chippies of the region, I was often put in a mercedes vito with no reverse gear and sometimes the long wheel base mercs that were horrible to drive. Always heavily overloaded that the suspension was bottomed out.

I used to do the local plymouth run, the guys used to do East and west Cornwall and devon or ferry mushrooms or bean sprouts from a fairly big farm.

Our biggest competitors were the little airplane guys, nobody knew where they got stock from but they did and would follow us around and undercut us on everything. This peeved mickey off massively as we would return with vans with 1/3 of the stock unsold.

Since we were regularly putting 6-14K in cash back to Mickey daily and I knew the cost of the stock and the cost of diesel. There was a fair margin to be made on this. Mickey was corporate though and had to pay top rate of corp tax, and did most things legit.

The airplane guys worked in cash and never declared it.
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Phoenix
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Joined: 01 Aug 2002
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PostPosted: 23:57 - 05 May 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

WildGoose wrote:
Most importantly;
Just make sure your brother knows exactly what a mile and an hour of his own time will cost him, and that he makes sure he never takes a job below that in order "to keep the wheels turning" or for any other reason.


Only thing with that is you sometimes have to take jobs that just do not pay or even cost you money in order to keep the ones that do pay (enough to compensate).

For example, you get a contract with someone to supply all their shops, all of them are gonna earn you a good bit and are worthwhile trips but there is one that is a tiny order and miles from anywhere with nothing else to tie in, no blackload for example. However the conditions of the contract will mean you have to service that shop, ie take the good with the bad. Financially it makes no sense but to keep the rest you have to do it.

It's fairly obvious but if you focus on the details too much you can miss the point. The same goes with doing odd low paying jobs to keep someone happy if it means supplying you with regular good business, it often has to be done but you just have to remember to draw the line somewhere and think about whether it really is worthwhile. You can't just cherry pick jobs when there's competition because there's always someone who'll do the lot and nobody is going to pick up just the non paying ones you refuse to do.
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