Resend my activation email : Register : Log in 
BCF: Bike Chat Forums


Trouble finding neutral

Reply to topic
Bike Chat Forums Index -> The Workshop
View previous topic : View next topic  
Author Message

esullivan
Could Be A Chat Bot



Joined: 06 Mar 2012
Karma :

PostPosted: 11:32 - 20 Nov 2013    Post subject: Trouble finding neutral Reply with quote

I bought my NC700S a year ago (almost to the day) and have 13,000 miles on it. I had the chain and sprockets changed at around 12K, so not long ago. I've noticed that I sometimes have trouble finding neutral when parking -- a click up and it goes into second, click down and back into first, repeat a few times until the green light finally stays on.

This started recently, but not immediately after the new chain and sprockets so I don't think it's that. The tension seems OK, maybe very, very slightly on the tight rather than loose side (an inch of give in the middle, compared with the specified range of 1"-1.4"). I don't recall ever having this problem while waiting at a red light, only after riding to work or home and trying to park it, so the engine is warm. About 80% of my riding is in central London, so slow filtering, slipping the clutch, accelerate to the next lights, etc.

What could it be? What sort of things should I be checking?
____________________
Current: '14 VFR800X Test passed 31/10/12.
Previous: '12 NC700S, '11 CBF 125, '04 SH 125.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Nobby the Bastard
Harley Gaydar



Joined: 16 Aug 2013
Karma :

PostPosted: 11:34 - 20 Nov 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Check the clutch isn't dragging. Even a slight drag thats difficult to detect will make it hard to find neutral.
____________________
trevor saxe-coburg-gotha:"Remember this simple rule - scooters are for men who like to feel the breeze on their huge, flapping cunt lips."
Triumph Sprint ST 1050
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

esullivan
Could Be A Chat Bot



Joined: 06 Mar 2012
Karma :

PostPosted: 11:39 - 20 Nov 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the chihuahua wrote:
Check the clutch isn't dragging. Even a slight drag thats difficult to detect will make it hard to find neutral.


How would I check for that and what would be the solution? The NC700 has a cabled clutch (not hydraulic).
____________________
Current: '14 VFR800X Test passed 31/10/12.
Previous: '12 NC700S, '11 CBF 125, '04 SH 125.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Copycat73
World Chat Champion



Joined: 11 Jan 2013
Karma :

PostPosted: 11:39 - 20 Nov 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

oil level ... Hondas have a most particular ritual ... if you want it correct.
____________________
Whatever I post I have no citation and no intention of providing one..
caveat emptor
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

davebike
World Chat Champion



Joined: 15 Nov 2013
Karma :

PostPosted: 11:41 - 20 Nov 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Check the free play on the clutch cable about a coil in the gap leaver /bracket or 20 /30 mm at end leaver
Also check the oil level in the window with the bike upright

Dave
____________________
Dave
NC750Xdct + others at work !
davebike1@gmail.com
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Islander
World Chat Champion



Joined: 05 Aug 2012
Karma :

PostPosted: 11:41 - 20 Nov 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adjust the clutch as per the manual. Thumbs Up

If it's dragging, you might get a slight 'kick' as you engage gear from neutral and the bike might pull slightly when in gear and the clutch is disengaged. On the other hand, you might not but it might be dragging sufficiently to cause problems when moving to neutral.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Aff
World Chat Champion



Joined: 05 May 2011
Karma :

PostPosted: 11:43 - 20 Nov 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adjust it way out, so its almost impossible to engage the clutch. Then when you pull the lever you know you'll get a good separation distance.

If this solves the problem, just adjust your clutch until you can comfortably engage it without it dragging when disengaged/can easily hit neutral.
____________________
Current Bikes:Honda 929RR Fireblade, Honda CD200 Benly (Project), Stomp Z2 140
Electric Bike Project
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

esullivan
Could Be A Chat Bot



Joined: 06 Mar 2012
Karma :

PostPosted: 13:49 - 20 Nov 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks everyone! I've never adjusted the clutch play, so thought that was it, but I just went out and checked it while picking up lunch and the free play seems fine. The play isn't when you squeeze it, though. The lever moves back and forth with your fingertips to the specified amount, but maybe the cable needs lubricating.

I'll check the oil when I get home tonight. The level has never so much as budged, so I'm getting lazy. I think I checked it last 2-3 weeks ago.
____________________
Current: '14 VFR800X Test passed 31/10/12.
Previous: '12 NC700S, '11 CBF 125, '04 SH 125.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

MarJay
But it's British!



Joined: 15 Sep 2003
Karma :

PostPosted: 15:41 - 20 Nov 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

esullivan wrote:
Thanks everyone! I've never adjusted the clutch play, so thought that was it, but I just went out and checked it while picking up lunch and the free play seems fine. The play isn't when you squeeze it, though. The lever moves back and forth with your fingertips to the specified amount, but maybe the cable needs lubricating.

I'll check the oil when I get home tonight. The level has never so much as budged, so I'm getting lazy. I think I checked it last 2-3 weeks ago.


Adjusting the chain so its too tight can make it hard to find Neutral too. There should be 3cm of play on the lower run of the chain at the tightest spot.
____________________
British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

esullivan
Could Be A Chat Bot



Joined: 06 Mar 2012
Karma :

PostPosted: 15:43 - 20 Nov 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

MarJay wrote:
Adjusting the chain so its too tight can make it hard to find Neutral too. There should be 3cm of play on the lower run of the chain at the tightest spot.


That was the first thing I looked at, but I didn't check for a tight spot (which would explain why I get it sometimes and not others). God, I hope that's not the cause. Sad The chain and sprocket are a 1,000 miles old.
____________________
Current: '14 VFR800X Test passed 31/10/12.
Previous: '12 NC700S, '11 CBF 125, '04 SH 125.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

MarJay
But it's British!



Joined: 15 Sep 2003
Karma :

PostPosted: 15:45 - 20 Nov 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

esullivan wrote:
MarJay wrote:
Adjusting the chain so its too tight can make it hard to find Neutral too. There should be 3cm of play on the lower run of the chain at the tightest spot.


That was the first thing I looked at, but I didn't check for a tight spot (which would explain why I get it sometimes and not others). God, I hope that's not the cause. Sad The chain and sprocket are a 1,000 miles old.


Might just need cleaning and lubing.

If the bike is only a few miles old it could just be that the 'box needs bedding in.
____________________
British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Pete.
Super Spammer



Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Karma :

PostPosted: 16:01 - 20 Nov 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

esullivan wrote:
Thanks everyone! I've never adjusted the clutch play, so thought that was it, but I just went out and checked it while picking up lunch and the free play seems fine. The play isn't when you squeeze it, though. The lever moves back and forth with your fingertips to the specified amount, but maybe the cable needs lubricating.

I'll check the oil when I get home tonight. The level has never so much as budged, so I'm getting lazy. I think I checked it last 2-3 weeks ago.


Adjusting the cable free-play is not always the same as adjusting the free-play in the clutch. If your clutch uses a push-rod system i.e. if the cable goes to the left side of the engine then there's an adjustment for that too.
____________________
a.k.a 'Geri'

132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good Very Happy
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website You must be logged in to rate posts

esullivan
Could Be A Chat Bot



Joined: 06 Mar 2012
Karma :

PostPosted: 18:54 - 20 Nov 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Got home and checked the oil. It was half-way between the lower and upper marks, so I topped it up. I checked the chain slack -- fine, probably slightly slack, even, so not too tight. Both ends of the clutch cable look fine to me.

Let's see if topping up the oil helps. Thanks again, everyone.
____________________
Current: '14 VFR800X Test passed 31/10/12.
Previous: '12 NC700S, '11 CBF 125, '04 SH 125.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

dydey90
World Chat Champion



Joined: 01 Oct 2013
Karma :

PostPosted: 08:39 - 21 Nov 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sure when I went to go see an NC700 the dealer told me that it had some sort of black magic that stopped you from being able to put it in second while stationary?

Or am I thinking of a different bike? Confused
____________________
This post is probably not serious and shouldn't be taken literally.
Past: CBR125,ER6f NINJA 650, ZZR600 Current: VFR750
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

esullivan
Could Be A Chat Bot



Joined: 06 Mar 2012
Karma :

PostPosted: 08:59 - 21 Nov 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

dydey90 wrote:
I'm sure when I went to go see an NC700 the dealer told me that it had some sort of black magic that stopped you from being able to put it in second while stationary?

Or am I thinking of a different bike? Confused


The DCT version, maybe?
____________________
Current: '14 VFR800X Test passed 31/10/12.
Previous: '12 NC700S, '11 CBF 125, '04 SH 125.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Walloper
Super Spammer



Joined: 24 Feb 2005
Karma :

PostPosted: 10:05 - 21 Nov 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

esullivan wrote:
Got home and checked the oil. It was half-way between the lower and upper marks, so I topped it up. I checked the chain slack -- fine, probably slightly slack, even, so not too tight. Both ends of the clutch cable look fine to me.

Let's see if topping up the oil helps. Thanks again, everyone.


Long Shot in the Dark: Change the Oil. (and filter).

The engine oil is an important part of the bike's transmission too.
It is very easy to change and one of the things to consider before forking out for a garage repair.
It is not easy to determine oil condition from looks (or taste) I defy anyone to tell me different. Unless obviously burnt, emulsified or thickened like grease there's nowt you can tell without lab analysis.

£30 oil and filter cost though Sad
____________________
W-ireless A-rtificial L-ifeform L-imited to O-bservation P-eacekeeping and E-fficient R-epair
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

esullivan
Could Be A Chat Bot



Joined: 06 Mar 2012
Karma :

PostPosted: 10:25 - 21 Nov 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

I might try to change the oil if this keeps up (I didn't have the issue this morning). I've never changed the oil before (on anything), so might be worth it as a learning experience. I don't have a garage, though. I'd be changing the oil on a cold, wet driveway. Maybe I'll wait for summer to try this new experience. Shifty

This bike has an 8,000-mile service interval, so the oil was last changed about 5,000 (hard, dirty, central London) miles ago.
____________________
Current: '14 VFR800X Test passed 31/10/12.
Previous: '12 NC700S, '11 CBF 125, '04 SH 125.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Robby
Dirty Old Man



Joined: 16 May 2002
Karma :

PostPosted: 10:26 - 21 Nov 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Assuming your chain tension is correct and your clutch is correctly adjusted (do the real adjustment down at the engine end, just use the bar adjustment to compensate to wear) then the only things outstanding are gear lever adjustment and technique.

Is the gear lever exactly where you want it, or are you having to move your foot around too much to operate it? Putting a new (tight) gearbox into neutral is a fairly delicate affair, and you just won't have fine control of the lever if it's too high or too low.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Walloper
Super Spammer



Joined: 24 Feb 2005
Karma :

PostPosted: 11:08 - 21 Nov 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

esullivan wrote:
I might try to change the oil if this keeps up (I didn't have the issue this morning). I've never changed the oil before (on anything), so might be worth it as a learning experience. I don't have a garage, though. I'd be changing the oil on a cold, wet driveway. Maybe I'll wait for summer to try this new experience. Shifty

This bike has an 8,000-mile service interval, so the oil was last changed about 5,000 (hard, dirty, central London) miles ago.


I think your bike is a Nakid bike so not too much hassle to get to the filter and drain plug.

Roll it over the nearest drainer. Very Happy

Nooooo. Buy an oil drain container

Cheapest I could find.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Carplan-Oil-Drainer-Can-CAR-TPD010/dp/B005F2ZMW4/ref=sr_1_6?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1385029859&sr=1-6&keywords=oil+pan

You need the filter AND A DRAIN PLUG WASHER and oil for your bike.
I fit OEM filters as if I am concerned enough to change the oil then why not spend thupence h'penny more and assure you have a decent filter on too.
You can get oil form most bike shops or I found Amazon cheapest for my car oil (Mobil 1 ESP 5ls Halfords £50 Amazon £43).

Run the engine to get it warm or until the cooling fan switches on then cuts out again.
Put your container under the drain plug.
Open the drain plug Saving the washer in case you never bothered your arse buying a new one. (And also just to ensure you remove the old one so you don't fit two and encourage a drip.)
Whilst the oil drains whip the oil filter off. You will need a filter strap or wrench for this as they get tight after being on for a while. Do not be tempted to stab a screw driver through it. It will bite you hard if the new filter you bought doesn't fit and you need the bike to go get a proper one. This is the main reason for not being tard-ish about this. Smile
Put a little smear of clean oil on the rubber gasket/seal on top of the new filter.

Some folk like to prefil oil filters. There is no real justifiable reason for this. It only offers a chance of introducing shit into the upstream side of the filter. So can be harmful. Lots of bikes have horizontal fit filters as a space saving so you can't pre-fill anyway.
There is concern that the engine won't get any oil as the filter fills first. This is nonsense as the engine will still have the protection of the old oil film from the previous oil. When you start the engine after refilling with fresh oil it should not have any significant load on anything if idling. It takes about 10-15 seconds for oil to fill the filter and flow to every where on the engine. If feeling anal then simply un-plug the spark-plugs and turn the engine over on the starter for until the oil light goes out. But this loads the starter and battery for little gain. The only time you need a 'pre-lube' procedure is on a bike that's been laid up for ages or a bike engine that's been rebuilt. But as you build you should oil everything too for this sake of the 'dry start'.

Start it on the filter base thread and spin it on until it 'just' contacts the base.
Turn it 3/4 of a turn more and leave it be. This will be tight enough.
Fit the sump plug and new washer (or the original if you were a spaktard and forgot to buy a new one).
Fill the engine to 'near' the correct level with the fresh oil.
Most Hondas I've worked on use a dip-stick to gauge level.
Most bikes require the bike to be on level ground and held very vertical. Use friend (or if you have no friend/s put car axle stands under the rider footrests, trust me, it works better.)
Remove the dip stick by unscrewing.
Wipe any oil off the end.
You will see some hatch marks and two lines.
The hatched area between the upper and lower lines is the 'OK oil level'.
Above or below the Hatched area is the danger level and kittens will/may be sacrificed.
Place the dipstick in the hole but do not screw it in.
Remove and look for oil on the end.

The trick is to know how much oil the bike should hold and as you get almost the amount of oil the OEM says the engine holds into the engine you then frequently dip the oil.
It is easy to add more oil but a cnut to have to drain a little off.
When the oil is on the upper mark, replace the dipstick and screw it in.
Start the engine and let it idle for a minute.
Shut it off and let the bike sit whilst you clean up the mess you made.
Remove the dipstick, wipe the end and sit it back in but do not screw it in yet.
Remove the dip stick and check the level. It should have dropped a little as you have used a tea-cup full to fill the new filter.
Top up to the mark with a little oil.
Screw in the dipstick firmly but do not go mental with it. They also get tight as fukc if over tightened. I smear the o-ring with clean oil here too as a 'belt an' braces' measure.
You are now an 'Internet Bike Mechanic'. Laughing
____________________
W-ireless A-rtificial L-ifeform L-imited to O-bservation P-eacekeeping and E-fficient R-epair
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts
Old Thread Alert!

The last post was made 11 years, 245 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful?
  Display posts from previous:   
This page may contain affiliate links, which means we may earn a small commission if a visitor clicks through and makes a purchase. By clicking on an affiliate link, you accept that third-party cookies will be set.

Post new topic   Reply to topic    Bike Chat Forums Index -> The Workshop All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum

Read the Terms of Use! - Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group
 

Debug Mode: ON - Server: birks (www) - Page Generation Time: 0.12 Sec - Server Load: 4.82 - MySQL Queries: 14 - Page Size: 111.63 Kb