rounabout control in second gear

[Vince]

Hi Guys, new rider and in general i am very comfortable on the bike ... but maybe its me over thinking things but what's the best method to perfect for going slow 'traffic' speeds round roundabouts in second gear?

Is it better to feather the back brake while keeping and the revs up using the clutch + throttle OR better to lay right off the clutch and do it all with rear brake + throttle?

[Vince]

... my bike is a FZS600 just as a note

[Alex A]

Just like a corner. Look ahead, go in gently and power through to your desired exit.

The gearing and use of clutch very much depends on the gearing and power of the bike, and how fast you want to take the roundabout (with the relevant level of lean). Your Fazer should be happy and smooth enough for the use of 2nd without clutch on all but the smallest roundabouts.

Just practice and see what works best.
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Current: Ducati Panigale R / Ducati Streetfighter S / Suzuki GSX-R1000 L5

[N cee thirty]

just do what feels right
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'00 Aprilia RS50 > '92 Honda CG > '99 Yamaha Fazer > '91 Yamaha RXS > '79 Suzuki X5 > 01' Honda Cg > 07' Honda Cg > 82' Kawasaki Z200 > suzuki gsxr 400 gk73a > honda vfr 400 NC30 Mod 2 Passed 09/06/2011

Jewlio Iglesias wrote: I actually did vote BNP once

[Vince]

Thanks Alex, Ive been kinda doing a mix of both (clutch/no clutch), just thought I'd throw it out there and see what was recommened, i think it was drummed into me while learning how the clutch isnt a "on off" switch (in any gear) and I kinda felt maybe I should be riding the clutch on slow cornering even if the bike is ok on just throttle and brake ...

[.....]

Slow control is all about the clutch. The throttle doesn't control your speed, the clutch does.

[Vince]

Cheers guys, solid advice as per usual

[Teflon-Mike]

By 'the book' if you dont have the clutch 'out', you dont have drive = you dont have control.
So a slipping clutch, or partial drive = partial control.

Perverse logic and an argument of symantics, but THAT was what I was tought by the 'approved' authorities of the day, in my youth.....

Yes, that WAS a long time ago, and yes, they probably HAD only just stopped chipping wheels out of stone!

I was a very poor studfent, though having come from school-boy trials....... I challenged a FEW lessons of accepted wisdom during my training, and even proved a number of them false.

HOWEVER.....

The clutch fully out = fully in control suggestion remains, and while it is a HUGE simplification, it IS a good guide-line.

I was going through some old negatives the other day from photo's of old, scanning them into my computer. Amongst them was a pic of a car I remembered fondly, and my girlfreind asked me waht it was, and so I recounted her its tale.

NOT very exiting, but it was an old Ford Fiesta XR2, and the 'cheapest' car I have ever owned; curiousely against all precedent; it was at the time the favoured holligan motor, and normally they got thrashed and cost a fortune in consumeables like tyres and repairs! Mine however, I kept for five years and nearly 80K miles, mainly becouse it was so worthless and I was more interested in bikes.

However, when I finally did get rid, I counted up the costs and looked at all the consumeables I DID use, and in those 80 odd thousand miles, it would have been expected I should have got through about four or six sets of tyres, about four or five sets of brake pads, and probably tho clutches.

I wore out four front tyres, the original clutch and NO brake pads!

Clutch was the most curiouse, when it eventually 'went' friction plate that would normally stop transmitting drive when the friction material wore down to the rivits holding it on, was actually worn down to four fag-paper thin wafers between the rivits.

I had NEVER slipped it so much or loaded it so hard that it had broken the friction material off the clutch plate!

That and the inordinate tyre and brake pad life is evidence of a very predictive driving style, matching road speed to the conditions almost entirely on the throttle.

Which is pretty much the 'ideal'.

If you dont have to touch the brakes, and dont have to feather the clutch, you match your speed to the conditions entirely on the throttle, you are drivng in 'full' controll, clutch out, NOT having to make gross adjustment on the brakes for what you havent done with the twist grip.

Did any-one tell you during CBT or training, 'your first brake is your third brake', meaning engine braking?

Throttle control is the key to it all, and if you ARE over thinking it, then, yes, try and avoid the clutch, work on your throttle control, and riding predictively, so you DONT have to make 'gross' adjustments on th brakes or steering, or resort to feathering teh clutch.

YES, the clutch is a very good tool to know how to use in slow-speed work, but really, you shouldn't be relying on clutch control, you should be trying to do it on the throttle.

In trials, which is ALL slow speed work, yes we do use the clutch to give added 'finesse' in the tricker sections, but even there, primerily its about throttle control.

So, for your round-about scenario, I presume, what a typical town traffic island, 30mph ish roads; your aproach should be marked by observation and a roll off to give yourself space and sight lines, you shouldn't have to slow very much to negotiate the turns of the island, and you should be able to do it all on the throttle alone, if you dont have to give way to other traffic.

and you SHOULDN'T have to give way to other traffic if your observation is good and you are driving predictively, so you know where everything is coming from and should be going before you commit to the hazard.......

Yeah... I know, 'in the real world' WTF is that TAXI going to do!?!?'

But you get the idea.

In slower moving, less flowing traffic, where it is stop start, you have more work to do, and you cant ride as predictively, and make good progress, you have to be able to respond to changes in circumstances and avoid sudden hazards or explot brief opportunities..... idiots and gaps, in simple terms!

Those circumstances, feathering the clutch seems like a good idea, to give yourself the higher gear to give a better range of speeds you can vary around easily without having to make gear changes.

But again, you have more 'control' when you have full drive, and it's better to 'cover' the clutch than to routinely feather it.

Use it when you NEED to use, it but TRY not to use it except to change gear, and try and do THAT as little as possible.

Its stepping up into advaned riding, but that is all about being 'smooth' and in control, and what I call 'cool' riding, least effort for most effect, like jazz.

More work you do via control input, the more load you are putting on the bike, more work you are making IT do, to achieve the same goal.

'Cool' riding gives you an easier time, means less physical work, but also less mental work; not working the bike so hard, for the same effort you can ride it quicker, or you have more margin for safety, or a little of both.

and apart from the reward of knowing you are doing it 'right'.... you also spend less replacing tyres, brake pads and clutch plates!
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Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?'

[L4Isoside]

mate i read your post the other day about wind resistance etc

i learnt from that time not to read that much again

(summary? )

[WetSparks]

Yep, I figure Mikes got one of those speech to text chunks of software

Always a concise answer though