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| Coxyzxr |
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Coxyzxr
Brolly Dolly
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| 27cows |
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27cows
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| chris-red |
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chris-red
Have you considered a TDM?
Joined: 21 Sep 2005
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 Posted: 17:29 - 31 Aug 2010  Post subject: |
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| G wrote: | My second hand Shoei (around £100 in 'mint' condition) weighs less than a Caberg carbon - which seems to be far too heavy for a 'light weight' carbon lid.
Leathers is mostly keeping an eye on ebay, but you should be able to get a decent set for under £70 easily, then altered to fit you for under £100
| Quote: | Boots, well Sidi Vertigos for £100, stupid not to.
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Hell of a lot for impractical boots (ok, I do have some, but bought them for racing, not that they seemed to make much difference over cheaper boots for me, at a guess) - £20 for army boots that you can use to walk around in seems fine to me.
Fully comp insurance for a new young rider is generally a bit of mistake in my opinion - to claim you can easily end up spending more money on increased premiums, excess etc than you get paid back.
I've seen enough slim tall ladies in textiles fine, by the way, can see it might be harder to get the right fit (reality is few people have good fit on their textiles), |
I have Sidi Vertigos £120, I also had a pair of assault boots I wore £35 IIRC and a pair of magnums (£50-60) I also have A* SMX4's £130.
The assault boots ripped the 2 weeks I had them when I slipped of the kickstart.
The Magnums where fine but was always worried buy the lack of protection around the ankle.
The SMX4 are brilliant cashed in them many times had them 3+ years and they are still waterproof and I never hurt my foot. Too hot to walk about in in the summer though.
I bought the Vertigos because I thought they would be cooler than the A*'s they are fine crashed in them once and slide heavily on my ankle it scraped away alot of the protective plastic but I remained unharmed. I am 90% sure I would have hurt my self in the Magnums. I feel the Vertigos are good boots that give a lot of protection, for peace of mind alone they are worth it. I wouldn't fancy going in an out of London everyday without them (or the A*'s if it is wet).
____________________
Well, you know what they say. If you want to save the world, you have to push a few old ladies down the stairs.
Skudd:- Perhaps she just thinks you are a window licker and is being nice just in case she becomes another Jill Dando.
WANTED:- Fujinon (Fuji) M42 (Screw on) lenses, let me know if you have anything. |
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| bigblackjet |
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bigblackjet
Scooby Slapper
Joined: 06 Jun 2010
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Posted: 17:56 - 31 Aug 2010  Post subject: |
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a tiny jap company turned up in 1959 AT THE BIGGEST race of the year, if not the hardest race in the world (on tarmac), with a funny name and funny overalls, all matching and all running around taking notes.
EVERYONE POINTED, AND SNIGGERED,
3 years later, they WON,
and have Dominated THE TT, EVER SINCE,
SO,
laugh now,
but watch out.
HONDA DID IT. |
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| G |
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G
The Voice of Reason
Joined: 02 Feb 2002
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| Posted: 18:01 - 31 Aug 2010 Post subject: |
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I have crashed many times (generally gently or off-road, to be fair) in Army boots and Magnums and never had a problem.
I did manage to rip my goretex army boot kickstarting the other day though  - however it does seem to still be fairly waterproof, which is nice  .
Indeed bigblackjet, but they had a slightly different design philosophy. Not saying some Chinese companies make good, but so far they can't even copy a Japanese design well! |
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| FLV |
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FLV
Trackday Trickster
Joined: 18 Aug 2010
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| nowhere.elysium |
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nowhere.elysium
The Pork Lord
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FLV
Trackday Trickster
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| Frost |
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Frost
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| Cheeseybeaner |
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Cheeseybeaner
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| Coxyzxr |
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Coxyzxr
Brolly Dolly
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| Cheeseybeaner |
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Cheeseybeaner
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| flumpy7 |
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flumpy7
Could Be A Chat Bot
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| Teflon-Mike |
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Teflon-Mike
tl;dr
Joined: 01 Jun 2010
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Posted: 23:27 - 31 Aug 2010  Post subject: |
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| Cheeseybeaner wrote: | I think the japanese tried their best to emulate british bikes when they started off |
Japanese 'industry' (as opposed to craft trades) dates back to the 1800's, and the early 'China Traders'
Of the oriental 'imports' that made thier way back from the China seas in the victorian and edwardian era, a LOT of 'stuff' was made purely for the western market, and not of the 'best' quality.
Significant one was 'real' china ware. Staffordshire potteries were knocking out crockery in whitened 'china-clay' by the barge-load, but there was a LOT of snobbery and people would pay extra for imported Chinese 'China' crockery, rather than Royal Dalton or Wedgewood.
But the Japanese, didn't tend to get into the spirit of things quite as eagerly as China & India.
It's a cultural thing. The warrior elite were the highest in society. Craftmen were values artisans, and the peasants that tended the rice fields, were cosidered 'noble'. Traders & money lenders were necessary evil, the lowest of the low, beneath, in the Japanese feudal hiracy, even the dung-collectors, who emptied the night soil and sold it as furtiliser!
When it came to dealing with the Western merchants, the Japanese were very seperatist, and didn't encourage trade with them. They permitted trade ONLY where there was somtheing of greater value to be gained by 'Japan'.
Manufacturing Industry, was something that they deemed of worth, most significantly engineering. They were happy to leave textiles and ceramics to the chinese, what they wanted was ships, and engines.
And they founded thier own heavy engineering VERY early on. Many Japanese companies are OLDER than american & Eurpean ones.
Kawasaki Heavy Industries, I believe is actually one of the oldest of Japan manufacturing organisations, dating back to something daft like the 1860's to make ships.
By the turn of the century, Japan had built quite a significant manufacturing industry, at least EQUAL to American Insdustry.
A lot of it BOUGHT from america, and most of it to fuel thier war machine, taking terratories off the Chinese.
Allied to the Germans in WWII they aquired a lot of state of the art technology and industry from them.
After WWII, they then were given a hell of a lot of US 'aid' to get thier manufacturing industry back in business and get the country moving again, after the nuclear holocaust, ANd to redirect it away from its traditional products, municians and the machinary of war!
Their starting point was hardly that of a third world country.....
And thier cultural attitude was ALWAYS to strive for exelence.
AND into the soup of the war re-development, sent as part of the aid package, they got an american called Denon, who is the father of Statistical Process Control, who's ideas in post war boom-time USA were considered 'interesting' but of little worth in the rush to cash in on the consumer boom...... where in Japan, they lapped up and applied his ideas with aplomb.
Look at the early Japanese bikes; yes the early Yamaha were Japanese build copies of the DKW RT125, and the Kawasaki W650 a licence built copy of the BSA 650 lightening.
THOSE two companies were large existing manufacturers.
Honda was a complete start-up, given nothing. As were many others.
To build bikes they had to design them, and they set about it with a clean sheet of paper......
And within less than a decade, the bikes they were producing were FAR in advance of what was being built in Britain.
Honda started in only 1948, making an auto-cycle from attaching war surplus generator engines to bicycles.
By 1955 they were producing 250 & 350 twin cyclinder machines with then deemed 'advanced' pressed steel frames and Over-Head-Cam twin cylinder engines.
The British NEVER made an overhead cam-shaft production motorcycle in the post-war era, until the Bloor triumphs of 1990!
IF the Japs had help, or started by copying Western designs; it took them barely SEVEN YEARS to surpass thier teachers, and start pushing the boundires of the technology they had ever further.
The Chinese and Korean start-ups are a very different kettle or herring to the postwar Nips.
And it ought to be noted, that when the Japanese started selling bikes in the west, they were NOT 'cheap'.
They were well priced against thier competition, but in 1970, a Honda CB125S was NOT a 'cheap' rival to a BSA Bantum, it was more expensive! Likewise a Yamaha YDIS 250 learner legal was more expensive than a BSA C15 250 learner legal. The Jap bikes were lined up against the 'exotics', bikes like the Italian Armacchi's or Ducati Desmo-singles, or the spanish hi-po two strokes, which they strove to out-perform, as well as out-price.
There were always 'cheaper' bikes than the Japs offered.
____________________
My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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thx1138
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Coxyzxr
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RussG
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| Dex |
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Dex
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| Posted: 10:06 - 01 Sep 2010 Post subject: |
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My experience of global engineering (making broad statements based on nationalities) is the the country's culture reflects their approach.
Brits- in small scale we were, and possibly still are, some of the best in the world. F1 teams are still mostly British based, and our skill is high quality innovative work. It was mass production where the industry collapsed, we never had the culture to inspire big groups of production line workers to strive for quality.
USA- sadly they believed their own hype and recently went the way of UK in the 70s, especially the automotive industry.
Japan- the honour system is to thank for their high quality output. Every member of a factory takes pride in the product and strives to create the best output. Honda is the oddity in that it had a strong single leader, its why Honda's ethos is more driven than most- it had direction from a single guy with a single vision. That ethos continues and Honda continue to innovate. The class system and cultural belief in excellence (but humility, and accepting there are always ways to improve) are the reasons the Japanese bike industry slaughtered the Brits- in the 60s and 70s, we thought we were great, they knew they weren't, but wouldn't stop until they were.
China- every aspect of modern Chinese society follows the old communist belief that their way is best. The people are fed misinformation, disinformation and lies. The news tells them their country is better than all others, so the mindset is that they are the best. A Japanese engineer running a factory in China would soon fall on his sword as he realised that years of indoctrination had taken away the ability of his workers to accept the scope and need for continual improvement.
North and South Korea - see China/Japan. |
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Dex
Nitrous Nuisance
Joined: 19 Apr 2009
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| Posted: 10:10 - 01 Sep 2010 Post subject: |
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My experience of global engineering (making broad statements based on nationalities) is the the country's culture reflects their approach.
Brits- in small scale we were, and possibly still are, some of the best in the world. F1 teams are still mostly British based, and our skill is high quality innovative work. It was mass production where the industry collapsed, we never had the culture to inspire big groups of production line workers to strive for quality.
USA- sadly they believed their own hype and recently went the way of UK in the 70s, especially the automotive industry.
Japan- the honour system is to thank for their high quality output. Every member of a factory takes pride in the product and strives to create the best output. Honda is the oddity in that it had a strong single leader, its why Honda's ethos is more driven than most- it had direction from a single guy with a single vision. That ethos continues and Honda continue to innovate. The class system and cultural belief in excellence (but humility, and accepting there are always ways to improve) are the reasons the Japanese bike industry slaughtered the Brits- in the 60s and 70s, we thought we were great, they knew they weren't, but wouldn't stop until they were.
China- every aspect of modern Chinese society follows the old communist belief that their way is best. The people are fed misinformation, disinformation and lies. The news tells them their country is better than all others, so the mindset is that they are the best. A Japanese engineer running a factory in China would soon fall on his sword as he realised that years of indoctrination had taken away the ability of his workers to accept the scope and need for continual improvement.
North and South Korea - see China/Japan. |
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chris-red
Have you considered a TDM?
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Dex
Nitrous Nuisance
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chris-red
Have you considered a TDM?
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| Cheeseybeaner |
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Cheeseybeaner
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Posted: 21:01 - 01 Sep 2010  Post subject: |
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| Quote: | IF the Japs had help, or started by copying Western designs; it took them barely SEVEN YEARS to surpass thier teachers, and start pushing the boundires of the technology they had ever further.
The Chinese and Korean start-ups are a very different kettle or herring to the postwar Nips.
And it ought to be noted, that when the Japanese started selling bikes in the west, they were NOT 'cheap'.
They were well priced against thier competition, but in 1970, a Honda CB125S was NOT a 'cheap' rival to a BSA Bantum, it was more expensive! Likewise a Yamaha YDIS 250 learner legal was more expensive than a BSA C15 250 learner legal. The Jap bikes were lined up against the 'exotics', bikes like the Italian Armacchi's or Ducati Desmo-singles, or the spanish hi-po two strokes, which they strove to out-perform, as well as out-price.
There were always 'cheaper' bikes than the Japs offered. |
Not really sure about that. Italian firms were offering four cylinder dohc bikes long before the japanese were, obviously the japs were able to market and sell their bikes far better to a mass market than was the case with lower volume Italian machines.
It has to be remembered as well that the jap firms only became successful in racing after Ernst Degner defected from MZ and took their secrets to Suzuki.
Until then they were very uncompetitive.
They obviously knew how to make exotic things more accessible through mass production and targetting world markets, something which isn't true of some of the smaller makers who were there a little earlier but didn't want to or didn't know how to capitalise on what they had. |
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thx1138
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Cheeseybeaner
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 13 years, 239 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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