Trial by jury

[neatbik]

Just throwing this out there really - What do the people of BCF think about trial by jury?

Fair to both parties, or one sided towards the defense?
Is it still (or was it ever) a fair way to judge someones innocence or guilt?

Is it right that 12 people (or possibly 10 out of the 12) must be 100% certain of the defendants guilt in order to convict?

I have been pondering this issue for a while now, so, like i said, im just throwing it out there to the wind to see which way it blows.

[Skudd]

Look at alternatives, then re look at the jury.
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[Kickstart]

Hi

I would say not fair, but probably better than the alternatives.

Not sure it is biased towards the defense. Depending on the charge it is probably quite easy for the prosecution to manipulate it in their favour.

All the best

Keith
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[Itchy]

I'm bit on the fence about it. Namely because Juries are easy to tamper with and can be terrifically retarded also.

For example the extreme porn law, while BCF residents possibly because of STE would not find any thing extreme about a GBBB sexual encounter a granny might. Hell to secure a conviction you might just get a jury of xian grannies who ain't your peers who think anything more than a missionary position is extreme.

Or that rules are applies inconsistently for example

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlFAd4YdQks

Or that girl who openly lied in court, and said she lied because she thought she wouldn't get sweets if she was caught out. The jury somehow still convicted because of this.

TBH I think it is very Russian roulette as with many things in the UK justice and the law are very separate things. OTOH I'd rather NOT prefer some systems used overseas like China where you have 3 judges decide on your fate who are often bribed by the defendent or somebody who wants a new kidney.
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[Imonster]

[colin1]

[wr125x2011]

wow, slightly strange that this was posted today, my mother got a letter today for a jury summons.

[colin1]

[neatbik]

Cheers guys, some interesting thoughts there

[Imonster]

[Chris750]

There is no perfect solution.
Although the guilty need to be punished, something I find even more concerning is innocent people who get convicted and spend time in prison.
The problem with a jury is, it is impossible to be sure of totally escaping human prejudice.
Your verdict could in all likelihood depend on the individuals appointed to judge you and their personal beliefs.
As an example:
I think there is little to prevent jurors judging the accused as a results of their social prejudice.
People picked for jury service are generally law abiding citizens and respectable members of society.
I think there is always the chance- when a law abiding, respectable member of the community looks at some of the young reprobates that go through the courts these days, there may be a knee jerk reaction to assume guilt.
I know several people who come under the "juror" demographic and a percentage of them, I would not deem fit to make a fair judgement on what happens to someone else.

The system is never going to be perfect and I can't think of a better one, even though the current system has several shortcomings.

[colin1]

[neatbik]

[Slacker24seve...]

[Mister James]

I had to do it a few months ago - a total waste of time as I wasn't allowed to sit on most of the cases in case I knew the officers/defendants/victims/etc.

In two weeks I was allowed to sit on one case that lasted two hours, with an absent defendant.

The sheer thickness of my fellow jury members was almost unbelievable! I now live in fear of ever being in a position where I have to rely on a jury trial to save my virginal rectum from Big Bubba and the Boys on B Block.

Aside from a few kids and some civil servant types like me who can't dodge it, most of the jury members reporting for service were white retirees - they struck me as the type who buy chintzy plates from the Sunday Express magazine and write in to the Daily Mail.

A special mention to the only bloke who hadn't worked out why I kept getting called out of the waiting room to check whether I could sit on specific cases, and who started saying that all coppers are illiterate morons who didn't have a clue how to spell their own name let alone catch criminals - while sitting next to me. I can spell both my names, and I can even write them if you give me a crayon and ten minutes!
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[Imonster]

[owdamer]

[doggone]

The only time I had to do Jury service I felt the rest of them judged a girl mainly on her 'punky' appearance rather than the evidence presented against her.
It was stupid trivial offence anyway about theft of a jacket, God knows how a £20 jacket came to involve a trial which must've cost several thousands to put on.

[oldpink]

I'd rather have 12 people off the street judge me than say just judges
even if you get one or two assholes
you have a fair chance of a fair trial as long as all sides play fair and you get to judge the facts
problem is a lot of the time the facts are twisted by the prosecution or defence to there own ends

its like should a jury be told of previous
say a convicted sex offender is accused again should it be brought up, will it taint the jury
or help them decide the guy is capable of doing the crime after all in the dock
he looks like a harmless sole (maybe even with a dog collar on)

in the Uk your more likely to get off unless its a stone wall case unlike other places
unless you live in the US and have the initials OJ then you really can get away with murder
but if your young & black and poor you get caught with a few joints worth you can get 10 years

I think I'll take Uk justice
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[Adamantis]

I think that, should I ever find myself up for something in a Crown Court , I'd be crapping myself. Juries are muppets!

I'd far prefer the appeal system to be the "actual" system - from my brief time at the RCJ, it seems to be a case of "3 Judges read all of the presented evidence, and decide whether or not the 'proof' is there".
The alternative often seems to be that 12 people sit through [possibly] a couple of months of evidence (yes, I am aware trials can take a couple of hours - my 32-hander trial has taken 6 split trials and is facing a 2 week sentence period!), try to stay awake through the joys of cell site evidence, and quite often seem to focus on a couple of specific comments early on in the trial, or on the appearance/demeanour of the defendant.

Trials are quite often as dull as hell, even when you're paid to sit through them - I'm not sure I trust the general public to have the concentration and/or common sense to judge on nothing but the evidence presented.
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[colin1]

Thats a point. The jury system is undermined by the fact that any jury decision can be overturned by judges on appeal.
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[wr125x2011]

[Ariel Badger]

Totally against trial by jury, I want trial by people that understand the legal system not a bunch of Muppets off the street.
Same with dentists, surgeons and plumbers.
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[Imonster]