New addition to the garage - now with bonus MOT

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[nowhere.elysium]

[Robby]

A couple of ways I can think of for getting acid.

To be ultra pikey, you could try draining a few knackered batteries into a jug to see how much you get, a normal bike battery only holds about 300ml though.

Alternatively, seems phosphoric acid is the stuff to go for - https://cgi.ebay.co.uk/5L-40-Phosphoric-Acid-Strongest-Rust-Remover-Descaler-/330473050741?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item4cf1ba9275

The trick with washing tablets should remove anything loose, they're quite aggressive. Also very cheap so you can repeat the process a few times. Sort of thing where you commandeer the bath for the evening on the promise that you'll clean it afterwards.

When we tried to start it the killswitch was iffy as well, which definately stops sparks from happening. Still, new coils can't hurt, just don't bin the existing ones. The bike shop may even have a coil tester to run them up.

It may just be one of those things that will eventually work after operating lots of switches and making/remaking the connection on multi plugs many times until that bit of corrosion somewhere in the system is gone.

If the carbs are horrendously sludged up, a possibility given what I pulled out of the fuel tap, then a dishwasher is your friend. Can't remember if you have one, I wish I did.

[nowhere.elysium]

Don't really see myself draining batteries: the only ones I have handy are non-maintenance ones, so I'll be looking at buying some acid, methinks. I'll see if I can get phosphoric, but sulphuric seems to be the most likely option.
There is fuel flowing through the carbs, but I'm not sure what sort of state individual jets are in. I don't have a dishwasher, so I'll be leaving them in a bath of fresh petrol, before cleaning them by hand, if needs be.
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'10 SV650SF, '83 GS650GT (it lives!), Questionable DIY dash project, 3D Printer project, Lasercutter project

[Noxious89123]

Autoglym alloy wheel cleaner is phosphoric acid iirc. Can't imagine it's very strong though.

You can buy it in a concentated form here. https://www.cleanchem.co.uk/autoglym-trade-wheel-cleaner-5-litre-requires-dilutiuon-491-p.asp

Scratch that, just 1-upped myself.

https://cgi.ebay.co.uk/DE-SCALE-PHOSPHORIC-ACID-DESCALER---RUST-REMOVER-_W0QQitemZ250646838752QQcmdZViewItem?rvr_id=165636371584&rvr_id=165636371584&cguid=cb0764f912b0a0aa1497f257ffd8ea4d
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'06 Honda CBR125RW-6 ~ '00 Honda CBR600F-Y ~ '07 Honda CBR600RR-7 ~ Bikeless
'53 Ford Ka 1.3 ~ '03 Vauxhall Astra SRi 1.8 ~ '52 Vauxhall Astra SRi 2.2 ~ '53 Vauxhall Astra GSi

[Robby]

I've just ordered some phosphoric to give a rusty tank of my own a go, will let you know how it goes. Tis one of the CB250RS tanks (I have 3 of them). Take it back to bare metal inside and out, the outside will then just be rubbed with an oily rag from time to time.

Part of the winter bodywork.

[Robby]

Right, phosphoric acid works very well.

Skip the dishwasher tablet bit, it did nothing.

Fuel tap off and make up a little metal plate to cover the hole with some old inner tube as a gasket. The acid will dissolve the inside of your fuel tank.

Place the fuel tank over a container (washing up bowl will do) on your balcony, pour in the gallon of 40% phosphoric acid and fill up with very hot or boiling water. Don't get too paranoid about spilling a little on the paint, it didn't mark my paint at all, and it's shit paint so I dribbled the stuff everywhere. If it does get on the paint, wipe it off with a damp cloth.

Leave it for as long as you want - mine probably had about 3 hours in all, and will get a final go after I strip the paint off the outside (half done already, using a blowtorch). Probably only needs about an hour.

You're left with clean, grey steel. Easy. Drain the acid, then follow it with lots of water down the drain in case it wants to attack anything on the way. Rinse the tank with water, dry fully near a heater or by swilling some meths around inside and letting it evaporate, and you're done.

[nowhere.elysium]

[Robby]

Ignition pattern? What's that?

Most importantly, did you get it started?

[nowhere.elysium]

[nowhere.elysium]

This project will move much faster if I could get the bastard carbs off.
I've disassembled the airbox, loosened off all the fittings, and stil can't get the inlet rubbers to release the carbs. I can't find replacement inlet rubbers for love nor money online, unless I buy a whole bike for spares, and as such, I have no intention of damaging them.
Bearing in mind that I'm working in an unheated, unpowered garage, does anyone have and suggestions/advice for me? They've been liberally doused with WD40 in the hope that it'll shift any excess muck that's in there, but I'm starting to lose patience with this bit.

Of course, the service manual is as unhelpful as any Haynes in this: "loosen the airbox fittings, and then pull the carburettors and airbox back, away from the engine". Every time I try this, it feels like I'm going to damage something, because it's not releasing the carbs, and there's about 10-12mm clearance, at best.

While I'd rather avoid airbox destruction, I do have pod filters that will fit these carbs, in case of extreme circumstances.

THoughts, anyone?
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'10 SV650SF, '83 GS650GT (it lives!), Questionable DIY dash project, 3D Printer project, Lasercutter project

[Robby]

They're going to be a bastard to remove because the alloy carb body has corroded and seized into the carb rubber. You need to break this seal.

I would go against all of the usual good advice and try to slide a very thin philips screwdriver between the rubber and carb and try to break the seal that way. Once you have a little opening you can squirt in some WD40 or penetrating oil using the straw nozzle, which will gradually work its way around the seal.

Do that on each carb let the WD40 work for 10 minutes or so, then see if they will budge. If not, a kettle full of hot water poured over the inlet rubbers will help, followed by brute force and leverage to pull them off.

Refitting will be even more difficult. A combination of back to black to soften and lubricate the rubber, boiling water, and grease should allow you to ease them back on. I can come over and help for refitting.

If the evil council bill is no longer hanging over you, then I recommend getting them ultrasonically cleaned. It costs a bit more, but also means you shouldn't ever need to take them off again. Also worth replacing the needle valves, and if it has diapghragms then check them and see if they need replacing. NRP will provide spares for all of these bits.

Not a job to try and do half arsed or cheaply, whenever I try doing that I end up spending more in repeated rebuilds and individual small parts that I would have spent getting it done right the first time.

If you are going to do it all at home, dishwasher. Then a lot of space on a clean work area to reassemble, I need a couple of square feet of working area to rebuild a single pumper carb.

Ordered your phosphoric acid yet? I could come over one day this weekend to watch it bubble and get excited.

[nowhere.elysium]

:edit: not sure why I quoted all that.

The carbs haven't sealed on to the inlet rubbers: there's plenty of WD40 in there, too. It's just that they're not letting go: there's plenty of flex in them, but they're not quite giving it up. I've only got about a centimetre and a half's space in which to pull them back, before I start to crush the airbox.
I'm going to go to the garage with a thermos full of freshly-boiled water shortly, to see what I can achieve with that.

I'll order the phosphoric acid today, if I can. Which day this weekend were you thinking of? I'm definitely game for that, if you're about. I havent got any spare metal around that i can make a plug with, yet, though. I'll have to see what I can scrounge.

And yes, the evil bill's gone, but I'm having to scrape as and where I can in order to refill the hole it's left. How much is ultrasonic cleaning, normally, and would it be worth getting one of those little home ones, given the amount of bits that will probably want cleaning on this bike?
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'10 SV650SF, '83 GS650GT (it lives!), Questionable DIY dash project, 3D Printer project, Lasercutter project

[Robby]

Saturday is best this weekend. For the plate, you should even get away with a little bit of wood or plastic, just something to bolt over the hole. It doesn't matter if it seeps a tiny bit, you'll have a container underneath. Do you have a drill? If not I'll bring mine over.

Can the airbox be removed without destroying it? You may have to remove the battery box, the joy of inline 4s.

As for ultrasonic cleaning, I think it cost £20 to get a single carb done by NRP but I didn't shop around. The engineer I used down in Bexley for a few bits (google engineering solutions Bexley, his name is Brian) might be able to do it or get it done, and is local. The home kits don't seem to give great results. Dishwasher is probably better for home use.

[rob_scott92]

https://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/52/Kyle_Moar.jpg

Wheres this video of it running anyways???
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First bike: 1982 Suzuki Gs 125 'The beast MK1' > 1988 Honda Cb 350's' FOR SPORT! (Good ol' oil burner!) > 2001 Suzuki Sv 650 's' Made it out of the 80's! > 1997 Honda Cbr 600f :p

[nowhere.elysium]

Dear god, I've left this for ages, haven't i?
Terribly sorry, chaps. Nothing personal: been pretty busy. Let me upload the rest of the 'so far' pictures, and I'll update the thread accordingly.
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'10 SV650SF, '83 GS650GT (it lives!), Questionable DIY dash project, 3D Printer project, Lasercutter project

[Beelzebob]

Dude... awesome sauce indeed.

Have some

MOAR!
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'09 YBR 125 -> '92 XJ600 S Diversion -> '99 Hornet 600

"Stronger than your average female lifeguard"

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[Kickstart]

[nowhere.elysium]

[chris-red]

[Kickstart]

[nowhere.elysium]

[nowhere.elysium]

OK. an update so vast, it warrants its own post.

*deep breath*

When I last reported to you folks, I'd been swearing at getting the carbs off, yes? Well, they eventually came off.

https://farm6.static.flickr.com/5087/5262856115_7e00cfb2f2_z.jpg

This image represents a victory that was paid for in the blood and skin of my knuckles. They hadn't seized on to the rubber inlets as such, but like feck were they going to let go without a fight. 3 litres of boiling water later, and about a third of a can of WD40 later, they decided to pop free, as if it was the most natural thing in the world. I've never previously felt the need to accuse carburettors of being smarmy gits, but now is that time. Many worse words were uttered, at moderately high decibel levels. I shall spare you the details.

https://farm6.static.flickr.com/5087/5202595608_f6c2db6c3c_z.jpg

The only way to get enough space to remove the damned carbs was to push the airbox rubbers into the airbox, which with 27 year old rubber is a bit of a tense experience, as the actress no doubt mentioned to the bishop.

Here's a shot of the void left by the absence of the carbs, for the sake of completeness:

https://farm5.static.flickr.com/4111/5202596310_29df7c1b08_z.jpg

Anyways; since removing them, I've been (very) slowly cleaning them out, and checking the state of the jets and other internals. Apologies in advance if these next few photos are a bit crap: I threw a camera at my Mrs and said 'photograph this process'*, without checking to see if she knew what I was referring to at the time.

*I ran out of hands.

https://farm6.static.flickr.com/5250/5262857823_609d05aebd_z.jpg

https://farm6.static.flickr.com/5129/5263467964_fd193049ce_z.jpg https://farm6.static.flickr.com/5123/5263470332_a452585d18_z.jpg

Pleasingly, my diaphragms are unmolested.
Having re-read that, I now desperately hope that I can use that phrase in conversation.

https://farm6.static.flickr.com/5006/5262857115_7ea4b96a51_z.jpg

At this point, I had the brainwave of separating the carbs, so as to be able to clean/strip them more efficiently. Labeling seemed to be the logical thing to do. however, I completely forgot that petrol eats damn near everything, and it did a fine job of dividing the adhesive from the tape that I was using to hold the labels on. Yum. In retrospect, I'm pretty glad I didn't end up splitting the carbs: I've managed to clean them out without the extra hassle that would've caused, so hurrah.

https://farm6.static.flickr.com/5045/5262858647_9125e3c670_z.jpg

At the top centre of this photo, you can see that I'm holding a pin. That goop that's on it is the petrol that was clogging up on of the jets. There was a great deal of that, spread over a fair percentage of the important bits of the carbs.

https://farm6.static.flickr.com/5169/5262859451_1df672ebc3_z.jpg

Fortunately, BCF's resident louche retro geek, Robby, came over and helped* do the initial acid strip on the tank. Observe, be stunned and amazed, at the filth that ensued!

*did 90% of the work

https://farm6.static.flickr.com/5083/5263471040_e0ae657764_z.jpg

Looks kinda like the end result of someone's first colonic irrigation, doesn't it?

https://farm6.static.flickr.com/5205/5262861385_77d4656763_z.jpg


So, as it stands, I've got a gunk-free but slightly corroded tank in my living room, awaiting the tender ministrations of the gallon of phosphoric that's sitting next to it. I'm hoping to do that this weekend. I've also got the jets clean now, too - I left them sitting in white spirits for about a week, so there's nothing much of consequence left in/on/around any of them. All that remains is to put the carbs back together. Fortunately, that's nowhere near as intimidating a job as I thought: although I'm still not au fait with the inner workings of carbs, I can easily see how they fit together. Famous last words, I know, but I'm not panicking about it yet...

As for the video: I'm going to try and upload it, but my phone's doing weird things when it comes to uploading videos.
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'10 SV650SF, '83 GS650GT (it lives!), Questionable DIY dash project, 3D Printer project, Lasercutter project

[Robby]

Louche, what a word.

What's a condom?