Is this a bargain or a turkey? I have to decide this weekend

[woolly_moose]

So- for various reasons we are looking to buy a Gilera DNA 125. This is not up for debate.

However, the average price for what I'm looking at is about £650-£700. Add to that delivery, MOT etc and it's going to work out at about £850 on the road, with winter coming, and no guarantee as to condition, other than what the seller says.

So, with all this in mind, there is a non-runner for sale. Very honest and open seller who just wants shut- he says he hasn't got the time or money to find out what's wrong and fix it, and now has a car anyway.

I've said I'll make a decision by the end of the weekend. Before I explain the fault, here are my thoughts:

- No guarantee that a runner won't go wrong and need money spending anyway- or that the seller is being entirely honest.

-on a very tight budget, so it could be a winter project that spreads the cost of buying, getting part/s, & fixing it over a couple/few months, rather than a big hit in one go

-scared that it will end up costing more to fix this that just buying one for £700ish, but then again see first point.


This is what he's told me about it:

great condition needs a new starter motor (£80) hence low price, 8 Months TAX AND MOT. nearly new tyres, minimal cosmetic damage, £200 Leo vince exhaust fitted, dymo tuned Top Speed 82mph. £550

the bit with the starter motor i dont know whats exactly up with the bike it had a coolant leak rather bad and just stopped one day havent had it into a garage as i just dont have the time or money,
as it being sold as a non-runner and i dont know the problem just give me a offer

so I offered £200- he's said he'll take £250:

haha dont worry i have had some daft offers, i will let it go for £250 and thats with me making a loss of £520 only had bike for a month before it broke down


Any thoughts very welcome- normally, if I'm in doubt, i don't, but don't want to miss a bargain if it's not a big deal to fix this up.
____________________
Hat first, THEN gloves... One day, science will develop a cure for hat hair.
Moped(we shall never speak of this again)>Yamaha BR125 Custom>Bullet Classic 500
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[MarJay]

Well... first off I'd be wary of the fact that he says its 'dyno tuned' to 82mph or whatever it is.

Its a four stroke 125 with a CVT transmission. It won't take being put on a normal dyno, it will damage the belts. Additionally, its a four stroke 125... 82mph seems a little optomistic.

For the money you can't argue too much, but expect to need a new engine and transmission rather than just a starter motor. If a starter motor is only £80, then why doesn't he fix it and sell it for £500...?
____________________
British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F; Cheap project: CBR900RR FireBlade
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.

[woolly_moose]

thank you- that's very useful - no idea what the dyno thing means, but it sounds like it didn't do the bike any favours.

you think 82 sounds optimistic? We shall simply never know- I'm not planning on going over 20...

also agree on the final point but, I'm guessing he's just fed up, doesn't need it any more, doesn't want to throw any more money at it and wants shut- I suppose for him, it makes no difference spending £500 to fix it or selling it as is for £500 less. Youngsters today- no stamina.
____________________
Hat first, THEN gloves... One day, science will develop a cure for hat hair.
Moped(we shall never speak of this again)>Yamaha BR125 Custom>Bullet Classic 500
https://www.bikepics.com/members/woollymoose/

[G]

I'd be more worried that it said dymo tuned!
Excellent and labling, but not so sure about tuning bikes!
https://62.15.226.148/fot/2007/12/14/6764560.jpg


Plenty of dynos that will work with scooters as far as I know.

For £250 it's not a massive amount of money to lose, but it doesn't sound ideal, though you don't explain what for - presumably so can't tell you to stop being stupid and get a real bike .
As idea, our DNA 125 did around 60mph top. We did try some DIY bodged 'tuning' (well, Korn did) but the best we managed was not to make it any slower I think!

[skatefreak]

Yeah,
To be honest, for that kind of money your not really putting your neck out that far, at best you can probly sell it on again if you dont have any luck as a non runner/spares and not lose all your monkey.

But then again, saying that there are some pretty good deals out there, starter motors arnt to complicated even though people seem reluctant to open them up and again, for some people *i pressed the button and nothing happened* equates to *its fucked* even though it may be something as simple as a lose switch connection


Take a chance, hell, the NSR i bought has been a constant *project* doing little bits here and there to get it all back into good shape, its half the fun :p

I'm off to halfords to get something spirity so i can clean out all the electrical connections on said bike

Best regards

-Jvr

[woolly_moose]

[0ddball]

If you're wanting reliable winter transport i don't think a fixer upper is the way to go. As with most non runners, as well as what they tell you is wrong there are nearly always other things they don't tell you about. With all the little extra costs it rarely works out cheaper than just buying an equivelent running one.

As said, plan for worse case scenario. If you add on the cost of a 2nd hand engine off ebay plus say £150 for other problems you might discover plus 3-4 hours of your time. Does it come to less than a good running one. If yes you can only win.

Btw if you plan on only doing 20-30mph everywhere get ready for some severe bullying. You'll have car drivers sitting on your back tyre and road rage will be a daily occurance.

[yanto]

hi i would walk away he stated the starter has packed up
so its a non runner so whats wrong with the kickstart ??
as far as i can remember (check photo) they are electric and kickstart
ignore this post

[Carvel]

[yanto]

sorry i have worked on a few 50s i thought they was the same
my mistake

[Marmalade]

[Frost]

^^ What he said. Coolant leak might just be a split hose, might be a fucked head gasket, might be as a result of someone's failed attempts to 'tune' it. But i'd look at it like this:

£250 for the bike, take it apart and check it all over. If it's totally fucked, break it for spares and sell any tarty bits it has on it. If it's fixable fix it, sale of tarty bits could fund this.

[Teflon-Mike]

Hmm my thinkings along the same lines as Maralades.
Sounds like he's bought ths bike, muggered about trying to tune it.
Blown the head-gasket & fuggered it up.
As others, if you want a rider, find the penies, buy one you can ride.
If you want a project, look else-where. you want something complete and running, un-muggered with, thats got no T&T and needs neglect & wear putting right, not damage.
If the value of the bike is only £700 fixed, fettled & OTR, you dont have much 'margin' on this one.
Yes, the pottential is there to sort it, and save penies, and yes you have the option to find overall price in installments....
However, that's often a bit of fools accounting. You still need to save up the same kind of money, and over the same time, just means you hvae a chunk of money invested in a pile of scrap lying around your garden & living room until 'done'.
Yes, buy a rider, there's no garantee that it wont bugger up on you.... but at least when you buy it, and its working you get some kind of confidence, and IF it goes ker-fugg on you, you have some better idea of how its buggered up and why and where to start putting it right again.
This thing? All speculation, might just be a starter solenoid and thermostat gasket..... might be kids have taken it to bits tried skimming the cylinder head with wet & dry, porting it with a dremel, & Re-profiling the valves in a Black & Decker drill. Put it back together with the old gaskets, and then sieze up becouse they forgot to put oil back in it, or the oil leaked out!
BASICALLY any myriad of maledies.
You MIGHT be lucky and it fixes easy.
You might THINK you are lucky, and fit say a new head-gasket, get it running and then a few miles later have a valve fall off or something, and are back to head-scratching wondering WTF they have done.
Have a look at our 'little-dreams' blog for some ideas on projects!
https://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w269/teflons-torque/Little%20Dreams/pi6f8a01.jpg
That is a Honda CB125 we bought as a project for Snowie.
Couldn't ride it when we went to get it, had no battery & flat tyres, but started up on a jump & went through gears & reved out on the centre stand. BUT got it home, the frame had been atacked with drill and angle grinder, and the carburettor was a complete mess. Tank was full of filler with holes underneath! It REALLY was fit for no more than parts, & I scrapped it & had to get her another.
https://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w269/teflons-torque/Little%20Dreams/pi678801.jpg
This is the one she's 'doing'. Sold as a runner, by bloke on behalf of his wife who'd moved onto another bike, hence neither of them had inclination to fix the fork seal it needed for an MOT.....
Knew from the photo's it needed more than just a fork seal, entire suspension needed over-hauling, & when I rode it, knew it needed at least head-stock bearings on top of that....... but complete and working, for Snowie who wanted to do a 'full' rebuild, knew we could iron out any other faults as we went along.
https://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w269/teflons-torque/Little%20Dreams/imag0768.jpg
this one, I got to do up alongside Snowie, and try and recoup something from the one we scrapped.
Seller had dug it out of some-ones shed and tried to fix it up as a daily commuter. Spent money on new battery & Ignition, seat-cover and some other odds and sods to get it through an MOT, then 1000miles later...... siezed it up!
Obviouse when I collected it, those 1000miles had stressed aged parts that had never had to work for a living, and it needed a complete tear-down as well as a new engine..... fine for me to sort, but too much for the seller who had already blown his wad on it & needed to get to and from work.....
Moral is even with a genuine seller, theres normally an AWFUL lot more in there than they know about or admit to.
Doing fixer-uppers, the chances of lucking in on a bike thats a quick and simple fix are NOT great...... do happen..... but not often.
https://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w269/teflons-torque/Little%20Dreams/XLD05_01.jpg
This one came as a 'donor' for spares only with one of the other bikes.... looked completely beyond hope, and was aparently stolen recovered, & wouldn't run.
Just for the sake, before I pulled it to bits, I put an ignition switch on it, fitted a battery, and as I couldn't be bothered to mess filling its petrol tank, swapped its tank with one off another bike......
started about third prod! Turned out that only real fault was a clogged fuel-tap, and unsuccessfuly hot-wired ignition!
Still a lot of work to make it streetable, but made me grin like a cheshire cat.....
Anyway, point is, 'Projects' are great fun, BUT:-
1/ NEVER believe the seller or take what they say at face value.
2/ If you dont have the money to buy a rider, you PROBABLY cant afford to take the risk on a project.
3/ Project Bikes dont often save much if any money over buying a 'rider'. You can get a better' bike for your money, if you do enough to it and spend wisely. But, takes more money, and a LOT of effort.
4/ Projects need more than just ecconomic consideration, they take time, space, effort and 'know-how', too, to see them finished. You need to be sure you can give them that, AND the people around you will help or tolerate it! Most unfinished projects fail becouse time cant be devoted to them, and nearest & dearest complain about the space & time they consume. Really cant stress how important having the people you live with on your side, if you are going to take on a project, AND how they have to be more than enthusiastic, but pro-actively supportive, if its not to turn into a bone of contension.

REALLY, if you want to build confidence ON a bike....... buy a rider.

Lets get you out there and doing THAT bit first..... start chalking up some possitives from the VERY beginning.......

Starting with tis thing? Sorry, I JUST see far too many opportunities for dissapointment, dissolusionment and it ALL ending in tears..... and THAT is not what you want, I'm sure.

Getting out there, starting riding, you have a LOT of expenses apart from the bike, A couple of hundred quic is neither here nor there in the greater scheme of things, when you have taken in to account the cost of CBT, training Tests, Insurance and all that....

Buy a rider...... start with something thats an instant achievement...... your first solo ride.......

Something to make you smile and think 'I LIke this, I WANT to do this!'

NOT something that vexes you, gives grief and makes you question why you are even bothering, or just frustrates you as the 'problem' stopping you do what you really want, which is to get out there and ride......

Best of luck.
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[LongJohn22]

Excellent reply Mike, just about sums it all up. Churchill(I think), once said "Never go food shopping when you're hungry". If there is no absolute necessity to get on the road immediately, take a little bit of time until the right deal comes up, this one is very obviously not the right one.

I believe the seller knows a good deal more about the condition of this bike than he's letting on, I mean, a £250 loss for the sake of an £80 starter? Would you do that? I didn't think so.

Be prepared to wait a few weeks or even months, with winter coming on, the bargain you're looking for could be just around the corner, and it'll be a runner. Good luck.

[G]

Yea, missed the bit about losing coolant - that combined with not starting would very much suggest something pretty nasty has happened.
Probably be a good deal if you had one already, but as it is, I think I'd avoid personally.

[Teflon-Mike]

[mysterious_rider]

I wonder how much spare engines are for the gilera. Just incase you can't repair yours.

I remember when I bought my ns125r home a few months ago. knew It'd need work for just 500 notes..

Painted the frame and exhaust, lasted a month before something in the engine went wrong (uh oh)

Top end rebuild.... all good. And eventually found out a noise in the engine wasn't the piston/rings on their way out in the first place, it was the exhaust end can baffles had broke, making the engine much louder. And the exhaust gasket was leaking

It still needed rings though to be fair.

Been a reliable bike for the money, had 2k miles on it so far. Just need to sort out my speedo (little washer in the wheel needs sorting)


ideally you wanna go and view this bike. But each to their own.

[jimspeed]

Unless you can get a replacement engine and fitted for peanuts then I would not bother. being a car mechanic I would almost bet my wages on the water leak leading to a seized engine (happens all the time at work "its only been leaking for a week honest" )
as its been plainly messed about with too I would leave it and spend more on a better on the road one.
have you tried auto trader? quite a few scoots on there lately.
____________________
Hyosung cruise 125(passed test on, sold) Kawasaki el 252 (better than expected but sold on) Kawasaki GPZ500S first "big"bike.(sold) ZZR600 E5..Z750 2007,ER5, currently on a 2008 Enfield bullet electra x and loving it..
,"Alpha-9: Is there any correlation between dyno rod and dyno kits?"

[woolly_moose]

Well (of course) I've decided against.

Wanted to say a big thank you to everyone for taking the time to read my post, understand what my issues are, and put so much effort into writing helpful replies.

It has given me a lot to think about, not just for now, but for future bikes.

Very very good points made, esp about not making this a cheap option, and needing something I can trust.

There are a lot of adverts out there along the lines of "great condition- v reliable-has never let me down- new engine, battery, ignition, fairings, etc etc etc." By that logic, if it was so reliable and has never let you down- why did you feel the need to replace 3/4 of it. And especially: if you knew you were about to pass your driving test, and wouldn't need it any more, why did you spend money on a new engine less than a month ago? Also alarming that the kiddies riding these think it is ideal for getting a knee down! frankly, something that's had 8 teenagers owning it over 7 years has probably seen better days. I reckon. All points duly noted.

Finally, I had a driving lesson yesterday (last one was 4 years ago). I was surprised how tedious I found gear changing. Admittedly no first lesson is going to be thrilling, esp if you are spending it doing three left turns 15 times non-stop. But it was made all the more boring by the endless changing up just so as to change down 2metres further along. Can't be doing with it, frankly. So I'm now booking a lesson on an automatic, just to see if it is slightly more enjoyable, and have mad esure that I will complete my CBT on a scooter.

I just can't see myself on the road on a scooter and thought this bike would be the perfect solution, but I'm wondering about its reliability. Presumably it would be more reliable from new than mashed into oblivion by several generations of boy racers. But in every advert I've seen, they all seem to have had so many new parts, whereas the good old Vespas seem to keep going forever. the only problem there would be that instead of juggling road sense and gears, I'd be juggling road sense and not being a little bit sick in my mouth.


Thanks again everyone.
____________________
Hat first, THEN gloves... One day, science will develop a cure for hat hair.
Moped(we shall never speak of this again)>Yamaha BR125 Custom>Bullet Classic 500
https://www.bikepics.com/members/woollymoose/

[Derivative]

I have never driven but I would venture a guess gear changes are far less annoying on a bike. We basically have the equivalent of a flappy paddle gearbox, there's no fucking about 'finding' the gear.

[woolly_moose]

[Teflon-Mike]

Sarah,

I've been trying to wrap my head round my thoughts on this one, and cant really do it.

I THINK you are magnifying 'problems' a bit, and a little bit of hands-on, doing-fun, how-ever you go about it MIGHT actually give you a completely different persopective on it all.

I DID think that the Gillera Idea was a good one, forget gears, if that's your stumbling block, just concentrate on learning to ride & cope with roads.

BUT, Snowie's comment over my shoulder... (She cant be bothered to log-on, she's got the sniffles) was:-

"Just tell her to get a CG125 like I did, and go ride around the block or a car-park or something until she gets the hang of it!"

Snowie doesn't often talk sense...... but I think here she's probably nailed it.

[woolly_moose]

[hmmmnz]

[woolly_moose]