Bike Weight and Wind

[JonE]

Afternoon All

The weather was bloody horrible on my way to work this morning chucking it down and according to the MET office gusting at about 43mph, most of the roads on my way to work are very open and I had quite a few hairy moments.

I'm riding a Honda XR 125 which only ways 120 kgs dry so I'm not surprised it gets thrown about so much by the wind. I'm hoping when I do my test and get a bigger/heavier bike things won't be as bad, so how much difference does the weight of a bigger bike make on windy days?

Cheers

Jon

[Paxovasa]

It does depend on the type of bike

I find that if you grip the tank with your knees and relax your arms, it helps keep the bike in a straight line
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Suzuki GSF600 K3 (in the fastest colour, black).

[JonE]

Thanks for the quick reply

I remembered reading that gripping the tank with your knees was a good idea in the wind which did seem to help, but I'm pretty sure I was still gripping the bars too tight and my body was far too tense, my confidence in the wet is still pretty crap at the moment so that doesn't help.

Cheers

Jon

[Paxovasa]

The problem when you tense up is, the wind buffets you, which in turn makes you move the bars.

When it is windy remember than you will get gusts and watch for the warning signs*.

*trees moving in the wind, gaps in hedges or gateways, cross streets in built up areas, either overtaking or been overtaken by high sided vehicles.

Your confidence will grow in both your ability and the bikes, been a little wary is good as it keeps you alert
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Suzuki GSF600 K3 (in the fastest colour, black).

[Howling TerrorOutOfOffice]

On my unfaired 250 i get blown about...on my faired 944 i get blown about too, but the movement isn't as violent (for want of a better word)

Grip tank with knees and ride as relaxed as you can. Keep looking ahead so you can spot any debris in good time.

Couple of open stretches near me require quite abit of countersteering when the gales get going.
Infact there are some ginnels between some terraced houses that act like wind machines.


Pat
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Diabolical homemade music Bandcamp and Soundcloud
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The Harry Turner Project

[superdaaan]

I was gonna post pretty much exactly the same thing I was blown all over the place today (by the wind, I haven't been that lucky today!)

I've ridden 600's in the wind and didn't thrown about as much, can't wait to upgrade!
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If I wanted to listen to an arsehole, I would fart.

[The Artist]

I find gripping the heel plates helps tons. Especially when cornering in the wind, you feel part of the bike rather than on top of it.

As for bars, hold on to the bars tightly but you should be able to flap your arms like a chicken.

Try both those.

[Dazbo666]

My experience of 125's and smaller bikes in general is limited, because when I first got in to bikes, I did my DAS right away...
but I seem to remember being blown around quite a bit on the GPZ (500cc, half faired, approx 175kg), and less so on the Bandit (600cc, naked, approx 200kg)

I'd go along with what's been said about gripping with the knees so that you can at least try to relax your upper body slightly. Just keep in mind that if your upper body, your grip and your arms are tense, any movement is more likely to be transferred thru your body in to the bike, and basically making the movement more pronounced.
You might also be able to support some of your weight thru your legs & feet, effectively transferring some weight to the footpegs and lowering your centre of gravity.
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1st bike (Sept'06 - May'10) : 1991 GPZ500S / Current bike (since Nov 2009) : 2003 Suzuki Bandit 600N
Word of the day : DILLIGAF

[Howling TerrorOutOfOffice]

I don't hold the bars tight. Each to their own.

Couldn't understand why i was getting wrist ache when i got the duc..put it down to new bike new position. Wasn't. I was gripping too tight, partly due to the newfound acceleration
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[Teflon-Mike]

Bet you were wearing baggy water-proofs as well.

Wight is only one of many things that influence stability, and as much as the actual weight, its the weight distribution, or how the bike carries its weight.

Trail bikes, like yours, are never the most 'planted' of machines, and knobbly tyres dont help the situation one little bit.

Trail bike weight tends to be carried high up, to gain ground clerance, then suspension is long travel and wallowy to absorb big bumps, while the riding possition puts you above the bike, and spread out, and the whole thing is a bit of a camel, (a horse designed by comittee!) compromised by the conflicting requirements to work on road and off, and be manouverable at low speeds over nadgery obsticles, yet stable at speed over a rough surface, and still reasobably taut on the road, where the surface isn't as likely to be so demanding, but speeds higher.

If confidence is something you lack, a generally compromised trail bike, often isn't a good machine to inspire it, from the off, unfortunately.

And I suspect that apart from too tight a grip, the other thing is the human parachute effect of high wide bars, which spread you out and make you into a big sail to catch the wind, with tugging and buffeting through your arms directly flapping the handle-bars.

And, billowing water-proofs just make you even bigger, catch more wind, and flap and snap in the buffet zone.

Not much you can do about either, but better, closer fitting, less flappy over-suit may help, and or wearing more under it to stop it bagging or flapping as much!

Might be worth paying attension to some basic maintenence, too.

Plenty of stuff effects stability, and often the case that its only when the weather is most dire and working against you and you need all the stability and control you can get, that shotcomings make themselves really felt.

Big thing on dirt bikes is wheels. Used off road they do get banged up, and the spokes loose their tension, and rims can go out of true.

(IF they were particularly good to begin with, & on a 'cost-cutting' Honda, spoked wheels, that are quite labour intensive, hence expensive to buld, are likely to have been made sub-contract in China, like the ignition system and other 'bits', and not to the 'usual' honda standards.)

Then bearings can get filled with muddy water and prematurely worn, as can suspension linkages and head-race bearings. ALL could probably do with a little attension, if no more than a clean and lube.

And Learner-Legals, are particularly prone to suffer poor or neglected maintenence anyway, so even if not off-roaded, might still be worth while precaution to give it a little pre-winter TLC.

But the tyres will probably be the biggest thing. Wear 'squaring' causes most instibility problems on road bikes, and even experienced bikers often take a long while to nail down handling problems to tyre pressure or wear.

Its an even bigger problem on trail bikes, with knoblies that have a much less stable tread patern, the knobles able to 'walk' or 'creep' due to the legth of unsupported rubber in a knoble, and the small effective contact patch.

Basically as you corner, the knobles 'bend' so as the wheel rotates, the unloaded knobble next to touch down is shifted a bit sideways to the road from the last, then that bends, so the next ones a bit further over, etc, the tyre 'walking' or 'creeping' sideways under neath the bike, even though its actually gripping the road!

They also tend to wear very square. Common on dirt bikes for the centre to wear almost bald, while the knobles at the edges are hardly scuffed, due to the geometry of the bikes not encouraging large lean angles, and as the deep tread depth means that there is a lot of rubber to wear down before the tyre becomes illegal, making the squaring much more 'pronounced' than you'd ever get on a conventional road tyre with only 5 or 6mm of grooving in the tread when new, compared to 30-40mm on a knobly, where theres more grooving NOT in contact with the road, than there is 'land' actoually touching it!

That more significant squaring then makes the bike even more wobbly when tipping against the road surface, exagerating any walk or creep. And if thats when your going in a straight line, becouse of wind buffeting, its going to be pretty hairy!

Check the tyre pressures. Examine the tyres for squaring.

If you ARE suffering from a lack of confidence, then a new pair of good tyres can be a really big boon to it, and is a lot cheaper than a new bike!

They can really transform the bikes handling AND stability, and if you are using it mainly on the road, and through the winter, you might like to opt for a more road biased tread pattern, which will be much more stable to begin with, and go 'off' less easily as it wears, as well as have more tarmac grip in the slippier conditions.

Moving up to a bigger bike; its impossible to say how much more stable it may be. As said weight is only one factor, but dont expect a bigger cc bike to necesserily be much heavier, or more stable.

Most bikes weight 'around' 180Kg give or take a few bags of sugar, regardless of engine cc, though smaller bikes do tend to be on the lighter side, bigger on the heavier, but its no hard & fast rule.

120Kg is on the light side in the light weight class. Few 125's few are under 110Kg, most around 120-130, and some a lot more. Moving up to a 500, your only looking at about 150-160Kg, and beyond that, sports 600's aren't often much over 180Kg.

As much extra stability on a bigger bike as as likely to come simply from it being a road bike, with its weight carried lower, less compromised geometry, but most significantly, more stable tyres, as from added weight.
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My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?'

[pinkyfloyd]

What mike said...... I think!
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illuminateTHEmind wrote: I am just more evolved than most of you guys... this allows me to pick of things quickly which would have normally taken the common man years to master
Hockeystorm65:.well there are childish arguments...there are very childish arguments.....there are really stupid childish arguments and now there are......Pinkfloyd arguments!
Teflon-Mike:I think I agree with just about all Pinky has said.

[superdaaan]

[Paxovasa]

I read all of Mike's post

Outstanding and deserves some
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Suzuki GSF600 K3 (in the fastest colour, black).

[pinkyfloyd]

[Paxovasa]

[JonE]

Thanks for the advice Mike, I've just finished reading it

My jacket and trousers are a good fit and don't flap around. I think the main problem was definitely me being too rigid and tense.

The bike is low mileage with full service history but I'm planning on giving it a big service before the winter sets in for peace of mind.

Have some karma.

Cheers

Jon

[Crystal Tipps]

[Tenantry13]

First time for me going out into strong wind too on Monday.

Made the stupid mistake of heading down to the seafront on my normal route to work.

Big mistake! As I was about to enter the main road onto the seafront I could feel the wind pushing me hard. Had to put both feet down and I was stuck there trying not to drop my bike!

Took me a while to turn the bike round so I could head into town and head for work that way. Scary but have now ticked that box

Plus got a bet on with a mate that I bet back in the summer before I lost my L's, that I would drop my bike during winter for £100.

He sent me a tex today saying $? lol.

Not yet mate I replied.

[Louise]

Ive riden in bad wind before.
But nothing like today
My mrs told me not to go the motorway route to work (She traveled back to S'ton from mine this morning' - Her pug was pushed side to side.
I was running late, and took the motorway route.
Wasnt so bad, but when the big gusts got you - Omfg
Coming home it was still windy but sunny, so save my self some towny traffic and head for motorway again thinking it would be better then this morning.
Noooo - me, fighting the wind on my zx6r was awful, the curve coming into Portsmouth from the east was the worse ive ever had.
Pushed over 2 lanes, thankfully no other car was close enough to clash with me.
On the fly over I was pushed right onto the hard shoulder, few more feet I would of been over the barrier and into the solent.
Bus tomorrow if its like this

[Howling TerrorOutOfOffice]

^^^ Yeah it was proper mental tonight on my 250. And that was riding single track back lanes to some friends. One second i'm thinking...ok there is a load of mud on this corner..i'll take the inside line cos its about 2" deep. Next second i'm blown across the lane with the front and rear pulling shapes like a crosser.
Think i'll cabin-up if it's like this tomorrow.
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Diabolical homemade music Bandcamp and Soundcloud
Singer songwriter, Artist and allround good bloke Listen to Andrew Susan Johnston here
The Harry Turner Project

[Louise]

What I dont understand is.... Im not the most confidant rider going at the moment.. I was sitting at 70mph middle lane... Waiting for a gust of wind, when bandit 6 over took doing at least 90ish. I know there nakids, but boy i felt my arse raped
Going home, I was again sitting at 70... and at this point in the other direction a cop bike shot past - doing at least a ton -
His bike is big/faired - how can he look so comfy in that wind
Either he is insane or im a puss

[Howling TerrorOutOfOffice]

Experience and confidence will only help so far with the gusts we've had today.
When i'm dodging branches and riding blind....yep..bloody big leaf stuck to my visor i often think i should stay in or rob the g/fs car.
____________________
Diabolical homemade music Bandcamp and Soundcloud
Singer songwriter, Artist and allround good bloke Listen to Andrew Susan Johnston here
The Harry Turner Project

[superdaaan]

Few gusts for me today, felt lke I'd dodged a bullet as I was unscathed, a little shaken up but fine. I gave myself the kiss of death, less than 2 mins away from home I was blown into the kerb as I went over the bridge across the m'way near me.

Bus for me to tomorrow I think
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If I wanted to listen to an arsehole, I would fart.

[Rogerborg]

Can't believe nobody has suggested getting a pillion to weigh the bike down:

https://i53.tinypic.com/24bkxi1.jpg