Thanks to this Forum....

[Vman]

.....I've just laid a deposit (a monetary one. missus!) on my DAS. I was going to do the test on my 125 then have the restricted licence, but after reading here about the changes that maybe (will be) made to the test, I thought I'd give my local centre a call.

After speaking to the test centre, they confirmed that 'times are a changin'', so hopefully in about a month or two I'll be starting a 4 day course. I would do it sooner, but I've just started a new job, so not really an option.

By the way, the test centres are a bit pissed off to say the least about the impending changes - new bikes...

....so thanks to the BCF, you may well have saved me a load of grief and cash....

....and now to musing over which bike to buy next....

[pinkyfloyd]

Great stuff. Your in the same area as myself so what company are you going with?

I used Silver Bikes and found them brilliant. If you pm me I'll see if I can get out one day with you on your 125 to practice a few things.

Good luck for when you go for it
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illuminateTHEmind wrote: I am just more evolved than most of you guys... this allows me to pick of things quickly which would have normally taken the common man years to master
Hockeystorm65:.well there are childish arguments...there are very childish arguments.....there are really stupid childish arguments and now there are......Pinkfloyd arguments!
Teflon-Mike:I think I agree with just about all Pinky has said.

[Vman]

1st Castle in Cosham, my experience with them was great. Reasonable bikes, good guys pricing seems fair enough.

Thanks for the offer, timings are a bit fecked up at the minute, lots of trips into the smoke for the next few months, so the bike isn't getting the use, still 170 miles off the first service! (Cripes, when I got my first 125 in '87, I had 500 on the clock in 3 days!!!)

Mind you, it's gorgeous out there today, may go for a spin around lunch time just to get me away from this machine...

[pinkyfloyd]

I live in Cosham. Just round the corner from the QA. Prob going to be heading out for an hour or 2 myself when the GF returns to babysit. I need to run to Albert Rd but probably take the long way down..... Over Portsdown hill long way
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illuminateTHEmind wrote: I am just more evolved than most of you guys... this allows me to pick of things quickly which would have normally taken the common man years to master
Hockeystorm65:.well there are childish arguments...there are very childish arguments.....there are really stupid childish arguments and now there are......Pinkfloyd arguments!
Teflon-Mike:I think I agree with just about all Pinky has said.

[schooleydoo]

What changes are they making (maybe!) to the restricted test?

I think DAS is the best way to go if you can afford it. I would have, given my time again.

[Rogerborg]

They're talking about the 3rd European Directive on Driving Licenses. The Directive itself is set in stone. The UK interpretation of it should be drafted by January 2011 and implemented no later than January 2013.

The significant change is that there will be no automatic upgrades. The current "A (restricted)" license is going. If you sit a test on a 125, then you'll get an A1 license which will only ever all allow you to ride a 125 (<11kW).

What happens to people who sit the current "A (restricted)" test on a 125 in the 2 years before 2013 is unclear. They might be grandfathered in to the old scheme right up to the new one coming in, or they might be told "tough, you'll need to sit a new test".

If you want to ride anything bigger under the new scheme, then you will have to sit:

1) An A2 test on a 400cc+ bike, which will allow you to ride anything up to 35kW (as long as it's not a bike that generates 70kW+ as stock). You can sit this test 2 years after an A1 test, or at some to-be-determined direct access age which must be at least 18 (but I suspect is likely to be 20 or 21, otherwise the 2 year wait is meaningless, and there will be a big gap to A).

2) A full A test, which must be sat on a 600cc+ bike generating 40kW+, then you can get your Hayabusa. You can sit this 2 years after passing A2, or at 24 (up from 21 for the current DAS).

The new test bike requirements fucks over training schools which are running "500cc" bikes like ER-5s, and even any "600cc" bikes which are actually 596 or 598cc. They're going to have to upgrade to "650cc" bikes to do A tests: the market for nearly-new Bandits is going to pick up shortly, and Hyosung should do quite well out of it.

Depending on exactly how the limits are interpreted, it might be OK to use a 650cc 40kW+ bike for both A1 and A2 training, or schools might have to keep some <35kW bikes around just for A2. We just don't know yet.

On a strict reading, the current CBT is inadequate for solo riding: it should really be more like the current A1 test, with slow speed and measured 50kph swerve and emergency stop tests plus 2 hours assessed road riding. In effect, you'd be required to do a CBT just to get accompanied training, and then pass an A1 Mod1 + Mod2 test to ride a 125 solo. The worst interpretation is that solo L riding on 125s will be done away with, but that's an extreme interpretation which we'll hopefully avoid.

MAG has been lobbying for license "upgrades" to be done via a short period of training and assessment (more like a CBT-for-big-boys), rather than formal retests. The commendable idea is that riders graduate from A1 to A2 to A as their experience grows, but the cost of doing full training and testing three times (maybe on the same bike for A2 and A!) is likely to be prohibitive.

Worst case is that new bikers just say "fuck it then" and wait until 24 to do direct access to A, which will hump training schools just as they're being required to upgrade their bikes. And the already niche market for small capacity bikes is about to get throttled, since you'll have to pay to train and test on a 650 (or at least a 500) to get a license that lets you ride a 250.

It really is a complete clusterfuck, like most things that ooze out of Brussels. We'll just have to cross our fingers and hope that Westminster ignore most of it, like all the Eastern and Southern European nations will do anyway.

[blurredman]

Damn, I hope that when I get my A2 licence. I won't be restricted forever then Though I got a feeling that, up until the very day the new system comes out, everybody will be working on the current system..
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CBT: 12/06/10, Theory: 22/09/10, Module 1: 09/11/10, Module 2: 19/01/11
Past: 1991 Honda CG125BR-J, 1992 (1980) Honda XL125S, 1996 Kawasaki GPZ500S, 1979 MZ TS150.
Current: 1973 MZ ES250/2 - 18k, 1979 Suzuki TS185ER - 10k, 1981 Honda CX500B - 91k, 1987 MZ ETZ250 - 40k, 1989 MZ ETZ251 - 52k.

[Rogerborg]

I think you should be OK, but it's still an open question.

At the moment, there's no "A2" license as such (A2 is a DSA term for 125s capable of 100kph, not a DVLA license category) - you get either "A1 (light)", "A (restricted)" or "A". A current "A (restricted)" test is really equivalent to the new A1 test though, not the new A2, so best to do it sharpish before the DVLA starts asking why anyone who sat a test on a 125 should be allowed to ride anything bigger.

Incidentally, I've just noticed the response to the consultation on the 3rd Directive which has some useful info, but misses out a lot as well (like what happens to current "A (restricted)" licensees, or whether you can ride an "A" test bike during "A2" training).

Direct access to the new A2 license will be at 19, which is surprising. It means the 2 year delay after A1 is meaningless: A2 will be at 19 regardless of whether you did A1 or not.

It also means you can do "direct" A2 at 19 then get a big bike, restricted to 35kW, which is significantly more than the current 25kW A (restricted) limit. Seems like a very peculiar decision to give direct access to big (and still pretty quick) bikes at 19 rather than 21.

Progression to A2 and A will be by formal test, not progressive training (and implicitly continuous assessment), as the "training route" would be "too expensive".

However, that was in the context of the DFT's proposed scheme of solo provisional riding on A2 or A bikes after a sort of "big bike CBT", where the rider would learn by themselves and sit a test without further involvement from a trainer, as we can currently do for "A (restricted)" tests.

But they've shitcanned that idea, so you won't be able to ride A2 or A bikes solo on a provisional, and will need to get professionally trained anyway for anything bigger than a 125. That completely knackers their argument that a training route is "too expensive".

In effect, they've just kicked learner riders in the balls, by making them pay for both professional training and DSA testing, for A2 and then again for A, regardless of whether they have a full license for smaller bikes.

I really do wonder if these muppets actually think through the consequences of their decisions, or if they just react mindlessly, like jellyfish or Belgians.

[trikeschick]

OMG how confusing is this

I'm struggling to understand it all...
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"Light travels faster than the speed of sound, which is why some people appear bright until they speak"

[N cee thirty]

gonna be real funny if they do bring it in,the police won't have a clue what you can and can't ride
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'00 Aprilia RS50 > '92 Honda CG > '99 Yamaha Fazer > '91 Yamaha RXS > '79 Suzuki X5 > 01' Honda Cg > 07' Honda Cg > 82' Kawasaki Z200 > suzuki gsxr 400 gk73a > honda vfr 400 NC30 Mod 2 Passed 09/06/2011

Jewlio Iglesias wrote: I actually did vote BNP once

[Clanger]

More and more things make us oldies feel good about our advancing years...
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Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter won't mind - Dr. Seuss

[stonesie]

I'm glad I got on and did my DAS sooner rather than dithering and waiting like I was originally going to...

[Rogerborg]

[Ingah]

A few questions, as that has confused me.
1) I passed the A2 25kW restricted test getting on toward 3 years ago - am i correct in thinking this will not affect me (i.e. they aren't planning to take my full license away are they )
2) I have friends that are likely to want to take their motorcycle tests sooner or later (car drivers so only provisional motorcycle entitlement atm). They will be 20/21 years old. Do i understand correctly that under the new system, they'd be able to go straight into taking the new A2 test, and then allowed to ride any bike of up to 35kW? And have to take another test minimum 2 years later to get a proper full license? Whereas if they took it now they'd be restricted to 2 years of 25kW, then automatical full license (i.e. the current system)?
3) And when the system changes they basically won't be any L-platers any more - you either take an A1 (if young) or A2 (if 19+) test, or have to be accompanied?
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-- Ingah