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does a2 restricted licence count as years of holding licence

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zzzzz
Two Stroke Sniffer



Joined: 14 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: 18:09 - 15 Nov 2010    Post subject: does a2 restricted licence count as years of holding licence Reply with quote
just a quick but strange question i am deciding whether to do the das or a2 i will probs keep my bike for longer than 2 years anyway so not fussed about engine size but if i hold the a2 then the 2 years lape and i gain the unrestriced licence does that mean iv held a full licence for 2 years or would i have just obtained it, for things such as bike hire or insurance, and any other reason that requires holding a licence for a period of time.
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Asharin
World Chat Champion



Joined: 05 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: 18:46 - 15 Nov 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
The 2 yrs is just a restriction on power, it's still a full licence.
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zzzzz
Two Stroke Sniffer



Joined: 14 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: 18:50 - 15 Nov 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
asharin wrote:
The 2 yrs is just a restriction on power, it's still a full licence.


cool thanks Cool
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Rogerborg
nimbA



Joined: 26 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: 10:16 - 16 Nov 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yup, A2 is a DSA bike category, not a DVLA license type.

If you sit your test on an A2 bike, you get an "A" license with a 2 year power restriction, effectively an endorsement For all other purposes, it's a proper A license and the endorsement is automagically removed after 2 years.
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SweenyT
Trackday Trickster



Joined: 22 Sep 2010
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PostPosted: 13:29 - 17 Nov 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rogerborg wrote:
............If you sit your test on an A2 bike, you get an "A" license with a 2 year power restriction, effectively an endorsement For all other purposes, it's a proper A license and the endorsement is automagically removed after 2 years.


The restriction is not automatically removed. It expires after 2 years but remains on the licence until you are 70 unless you get it removed. You have to apply to have it removed at the end of the 2 years and then pay DVLA £20 atm for the privilege Exclamation

If you decide to apply for it to be removed then get a copy of your licence certified by a Solicitor/Commissioner of Oaths/Magistrate... before you send it off or make sure you still have your original Pass Certificate as the DVLA have been known to make mistakes and remove the entitlement all together Shocked
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blurredman
World Chat Champion



Joined: 18 Sep 2010
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PostPosted: 14:18 - 17 Nov 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
SweenyT wrote:
Rogerborg wrote:
............If you sit your test on an A2 bike, you get an "A" license with a 2 year power restriction, effectively an endorsement For all other purposes, it's a proper A license and the endorsement is automagically removed after 2 years.


The restriction is not automatically removed. It expires after 2 years but remains on the licence until you are 70 unless you get it removed. You have to apply to have it removed at the end of the 2 years and then pay DVLA £20 atm for the privilege Exclamation

If you decide to apply for it to be removed then get a copy of your licence certified by a Solicitor/Commissioner of Oaths/Magistrate... before you send it off or make sure you still have your original Pass Certificate as the DVLA have been known to make mistakes and remove the entitlement all together Shocked


If police were to see the code (a bit like 122 on Moped entitlement for new licences) then they were to look it up and find that the code specific to the two year restriction says something like "2 year 33hp restriction", at which point- there is no real point in removing it unless you were to add yet another category to the licence Smile
____________________
CBT: 12/06/10, Theory: 22/09/10, Module 1: 09/11/10, Module 2: 19/01/11
Past: 1991 Honda CG125BR-J, 1992 (1980) Honda XL125S, 1996 Kawasaki GPZ500S, 1979 MZ TS150.
Current: 1973 MZ ES250/2 - 18k, 1979 Suzuki TS185ER - 10k, 1981 Honda CX500B - 91k, 1987 MZ ETZ250 (295cc) - 40k, 1989 MZ ETZ251 - 51k.
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SweenyT
Trackday Trickster



Joined: 22 Sep 2010
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PostPosted: 14:57 - 17 Nov 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
A restricted licence doesn't actually state a numerical code it just shows: =<25KW in the codes section. The from date is the only indicator as the end date is the day before your 70th birthday.

In my case my restriction ends almost exactly 4 months after my licence needs renewing so I have to decide whether to leave it or fork out to get rid. If I leave it then I have to hope that any PC that does pull me actually looks at the from date and works it out for himself rather than give me unnecessary grief.

At the end of the day it's down to the individual whether they want to leave it or pay to get rid of it at the end of their restriction.
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blurredman
World Chat Champion



Joined: 18 Sep 2010
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PostPosted: 15:29 - 17 Nov 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
SweenyT wrote:
A restricted licence doesn't actually state a numerical code it just shows: =<25KW in the codes section. The from date is the only indicator as the end date is the day before your 70th birthday.

In my case my restriction ends almost exactly 4 months after my licence needs renewing so I have to decide whether to leave it or fork out to get rid. If I leave it then I have to hope that any PC that does pull me actually looks at the from date and works it out for himself rather than give me unnecessary grief.

At the end of the day it's down to the individual whether they want to leave it or pay to get rid of it at the end of their restriction.



You have to renew your licence? Why?
____________________
CBT: 12/06/10, Theory: 22/09/10, Module 1: 09/11/10, Module 2: 19/01/11
Past: 1991 Honda CG125BR-J, 1992 (1980) Honda XL125S, 1996 Kawasaki GPZ500S, 1979 MZ TS150.
Current: 1973 MZ ES250/2 - 18k, 1979 Suzuki TS185ER - 10k, 1981 Honda CX500B - 91k, 1987 MZ ETZ250 (295cc) - 40k, 1989 MZ ETZ251 - 51k.
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Moo.
World Chat Champion



Joined: 11 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: 15:44 - 17 Nov 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
More money for the government..
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A2 Passed 18/6/10
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Feasty
World Chat Champion



Joined: 01 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: 15:48 - 17 Nov 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
asharin wrote:
The 2 yrs is just a restriction on power, it's still a full licence.


This is partly true, however when I was getting towards the end of my restriction period I started looking round for a bigger bike. A couple of bike shops had bikes I wanted to test ride however their insurance states a rider must have had a full licence for 2 years before they will be insured to test ride a bike. I asked about the restriction and they stated this is NOT classed as a full licence and therefore theroetically I'd need to ride for another 2 years after my restriction ended before I could test ride their bikes.
They did however offer to ride the bikes down to a local car park where I could try them out...

My insurance company ask how long I've held a 'bike' licence, well I consider the A2 licence to still be a bike licence so I include that in the length of time. However I've come across companies that ask how long you've held a 'full' licence for and I don't believe that includes the restriction period...

Thumbs Up
____________________
Previous: Aprilia Habana Retro 50cc (beauty), Yamaha SR125 (fell apart), Honda XR125 (nippy little commuter), Honda SLR650 (Geewhizz), Yamaha Diversion 900S (Smoooooth) written off courtesy of a stupid escaped horse.
(7 year gap), BMW F650 (Relaxing ride). Aprilia Caponord ETV1000 (Big and bold). Yamaha FZS600 (got me in trouble too quick!).
Current: Yamaha TDM 900 (Comfy, light but big, power when needed).
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Rogerborg
nimbA



Joined: 26 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: 16:27 - 17 Nov 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
SweenyT wrote:
Rogerborg wrote:
............If you sit your test on an A2 bike, you get an "A" license with a 2 year power restriction, effectively an endorsement. For all other purposes, it's a proper A license and the endorsement is automagically removed after 2 years.


The restriction is not automatically removed. It expires after 2 years but remains on the licence until you are 70 unless you get it removed.


Well, I didn't imagine that the DVLA Fairies would update the hard copy of the license in my pocket: I meant in the DVLA database, which is what ultimately matters in any dispute.


SweenyT wrote:
If you decide to apply for it to be removed then get a copy of your licence certified by a Solicitor/Commissioner of Oaths/Magistrate... before you send it off or make sure you still have your original Pass Certificate as the DVLA have been known to make mistakes and remove the entitlement all together Shocked


Absolutely, but why even send it off? Just say you've lost it. It's £20 to get a replacement either way, and you get to keep a handy spare which you can "find" later if necessary to show that they've nobbed you.

When I surrendered my license to the DSA after passing Mod 2, I "accidentally" gave them my "lost" copy - they apparently didn't check the version number, since they just shred it anyway. Very Happy
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chris-red
Have you considered a TDM?



Joined: 21 Sep 2005
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PostPosted: 16:42 - 17 Nov 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Feasty wrote:
asharin wrote:
The 2 yrs is just a restriction on power, it's still a full licence.


This is partly true, however when I was getting towards the end of my restriction period I started looking round for a bigger bike. A couple of bike shops had bikes I wanted to test ride however their insurance states a rider must have had a full licence for 2 years before they will be insured to test ride a bike. I asked about the restriction and they stated this is NOT classed as a full licence and therefore theroetically I'd need to ride for another 2 years after my restriction ended before I could test ride their bikes.
They did however offer to ride the bikes down to a local car park where I could try them out...

My insurance company ask how long I've held a 'bike' licence, well I consider the A2 licence to still be a bike licence so I include that in the length of time. However I've come across companies that ask how long you've held a 'full' licence for and I don't believe that includes the restriction period...

Thumbs Up


That isn't correct the bike shops were wrong. If you have a pink driving licence is is a full licence. You then have a bike entitlement or a car entitlement (or other) and conditions imposed on it, would you say somebody whose driving licence requires them to wear glasses doesn't have a full licence?.
____________________
Well, you know what they say. If you want to save the world, you have to push a few old ladies down the stairs.
Skudd:- Perhaps she just thinks you are a window licker and is being nice just in case she becomes another Jill Dando.
WANTED:- Fujinon (Fuji) M42 (Screw on) lenses, let me know if you have anything.
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Feasty
World Chat Champion



Joined: 01 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: 16:59 - 17 Nov 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
chris-red wrote:
would you say somebody whose driving licence requires them to wear glasses doesn't have a full licence?.


That's the most funny and ridiculous attempt at an analogy I think I've ever come across! lol Laughing
I'll let you dispute with the shop wether they are right or wrong, Rolling Eyes .

However I agree that a full licence with limitations is still a full licence, providing no more training is required after the restriction expires. I'm just letting the OP know that not everyone and every organisation see it the same way...
____________________
Previous: Aprilia Habana Retro 50cc (beauty), Yamaha SR125 (fell apart), Honda XR125 (nippy little commuter), Honda SLR650 (Geewhizz), Yamaha Diversion 900S (Smoooooth) written off courtesy of a stupid escaped horse.
(7 year gap), BMW F650 (Relaxing ride). Aprilia Caponord ETV1000 (Big and bold). Yamaha FZS600 (got me in trouble too quick!).
Current: Yamaha TDM 900 (Comfy, light but big, power when needed).
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chris-red
Have you considered a TDM?



Joined: 21 Sep 2005
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PostPosted: 17:39 - 17 Nov 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Feasty wrote:
chris-red wrote:
would you say somebody whose driving licence requires them to wear glasses doesn't have a full licence?.


That's the most funny and ridiculous attempt at an analogy I think I've ever come across! lol Laughing
I'll let you dispute with the shop wether they are right or wrong, Rolling Eyes .

However I agree that a full licence with limitations is still a full licence, providing no more training is required after the restriction expires. I'm just letting the OP know that not everyone and every organisation see it the same way...


Why is it ridiculous? Both are conditions imposed on a licence both are in the same area of your licence, it is a good analogy. How about this one, code 78 - restricted to vehicles with automatic transmission, would that be more apt? They all go in section 12 of your licence.
____________________
Well, you know what they say. If you want to save the world, you have to push a few old ladies down the stairs.
Skudd:- Perhaps she just thinks you are a window licker and is being nice just in case she becomes another Jill Dando.
WANTED:- Fujinon (Fuji) M42 (Screw on) lenses, let me know if you have anything.
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Feasty
World Chat Champion



Joined: 01 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: 09:58 - 18 Nov 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
chris-red wrote:
How about this one, code 78 - restricted to vehicles with automatic transmission, would that be more apt? They all go in section 12 of your licence.


Much better mate, well done. That's just the sort of analogy we were looking for. Thumbs Up Wink Laughing
____________________
Previous: Aprilia Habana Retro 50cc (beauty), Yamaha SR125 (fell apart), Honda XR125 (nippy little commuter), Honda SLR650 (Geewhizz), Yamaha Diversion 900S (Smoooooth) written off courtesy of a stupid escaped horse.
(7 year gap), BMW F650 (Relaxing ride). Aprilia Caponord ETV1000 (Big and bold). Yamaha FZS600 (got me in trouble too quick!).
Current: Yamaha TDM 900 (Comfy, light but big, power when needed).
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chris-red
Have you considered a TDM?



Joined: 21 Sep 2005
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PostPosted: 10:37 - 18 Nov 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Feasty wrote:
chris-red wrote:
How about this one, code 78 - restricted to vehicles with automatic transmission, would that be more apt? They all go in section 12 of your licence.


Much better mate, well done. That's just the sort of analogy we were looking for. Thumbs Up Wink Laughing


They are all the same, conditions imposed on the licence, having a restriction for horsepower on your licence is no different to having to wear glasses. and If 33bhp isn't a full licence then neither is one that says you must wear glasses.
____________________
Well, you know what they say. If you want to save the world, you have to push a few old ladies down the stairs.
Skudd:- Perhaps she just thinks you are a window licker and is being nice just in case she becomes another Jill Dando.
WANTED:- Fujinon (Fuji) M42 (Screw on) lenses, let me know if you have anything.
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SweenyT
Trackday Trickster



Joined: 22 Sep 2010
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PostPosted: 11:25 - 18 Nov 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Blurredman wrote:

You have to renew your licence? Why?


Oh my photocard expires then - they only last 10 years, sorry I didn't make it clear.

Rogerborg wrote:
Well, I didn't imagine that the DVLA Fairies would update the hard copy of the license in my pocket: I meant in the DVLA database, which is what ultimately matters in any dispute.


Sarcasm where would we be without it Razz

Rogerborg wrote:
Absolutely, but why even send it off? Just say you've lost it. It's £20 to get a replacement either way, and you get to keep a handy spare which you can "find" later if necessary to show that they've nobbed you.


Sounds like a plan Smile

As for the full licence issue - the DVLA class my licence with restriction as a full licence and I'll be damned if I'll let anybody else tell me otherwise. That said most bike and car shops have limits on who can test ride their bikes even most hire companies will not let you hire a car unless you've had a full car licence for a complete year. If you find the bike shop won't let you test ride then look for another one failing that let them ride you to the car park and when you test ride the bike do a few wheelies etc and then tell them 'nah mate not interested', walk away and buy the bike elsewhere Laughing
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Current ride - 2005 Suzuki GSX-R600 K4 - 2x 2014 Honda NC750s long term courtesy bikes - 2003 Fazer FZ6 written off as idiot reversed into me - 2009 YBR125 - still have from new
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Feasty
World Chat Champion



Joined: 01 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: 11:55 - 18 Nov 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
chris-red wrote:
They are all the same, conditions imposed on the licence, having a restriction for horsepower on your licence is no different to having to wear glasses. and If 33bhp isn't a full licence then neither is one that says you must wear glasses.


Ah well now that's where you are going wrong, these are conditions imposed on the 'rider' or 'bike'. The licence just shows what is being imposed.
That's why your analogy was crap, you were comparing conditions imposed on the bike to conditions imposed on the rider - 2 different things.

You can have a full licence but have to wear glasses, or a 33bhp limited bike and have to wear glasses. So if a company decides to see the 33bhp limit as not having a full licence, then wether you're wearing glasses or not you still don't have a full licence... and vice versa. Thumbs Up Wink
____________________
Previous: Aprilia Habana Retro 50cc (beauty), Yamaha SR125 (fell apart), Honda XR125 (nippy little commuter), Honda SLR650 (Geewhizz), Yamaha Diversion 900S (Smoooooth) written off courtesy of a stupid escaped horse.
(7 year gap), BMW F650 (Relaxing ride). Aprilia Caponord ETV1000 (Big and bold). Yamaha FZS600 (got me in trouble too quick!).
Current: Yamaha TDM 900 (Comfy, light but big, power when needed).
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chris-red
Have you considered a TDM?



Joined: 21 Sep 2005
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PostPosted: 12:15 - 18 Nov 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Feasty wrote:
chris-red wrote:
They are all the same, conditions imposed on the licence, having a restriction for horsepower on your licence is no different to having to wear glasses. and If 33bhp isn't a full licence then neither is one that says you must wear glasses.


Ah well now that's where you are going wrong, these are conditions imposed on the 'rider' or 'bike'. The licence just shows what is being imposed.
That's why your analogy was crap, you were comparing conditions imposed on the bike to conditions imposed on the rider - 2 different things.

You can have a full licence but have to wear glasses, or a 33bhp limited bike and have to wear glasses. So if a company decides to see the 33bhp limit as not having a full licence, then wether you're wearing glasses or not you still don't have a full licence... and vice versa. Thumbs Up Wink


Crap, anything applied to the vehicle is instantly implied to the driver there is no difference. It's irrelevant what the company thinks it is what the DVLA say. Which is why the insurance will ask about conditions on your licence.

I can tell you that in my house black is white doesn't make it right.
____________________
Well, you know what they say. If you want to save the world, you have to push a few old ladies down the stairs.
Skudd:- Perhaps she just thinks you are a window licker and is being nice just in case she becomes another Jill Dando.
WANTED:- Fujinon (Fuji) M42 (Screw on) lenses, let me know if you have anything.
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Feasty
World Chat Champion



Joined: 01 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: 12:33 - 18 Nov 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
chris-red wrote:
Crap, anything applied to the vehicle is instantly implied to the driver there is no difference. It's irrelevant what the company thinks it is what the DVLA say. Which is why the insurance will ask about conditions on your licence.

I can tell you that in my house black is white doesn't make it right.


Now that was a beautiful move, completely off topic in one single post. Well done mate. Rolling Eyes

We were talking about the fact a bike shop said their insurance didn't see a 33bhp restricted licence as being a full licence. Then you whipped out the glasses thing.
Well if I turned up at the bike shop with a non-restricted licence (i.e a full one) wearing glasses, they'd still let me ride a bike because I would still have a 'full' licence in their eyes. The glasses wouldn't make a blind bit of difference (that pun was done on purpose by the way! Razz ).
Meaning your analogy of the glasses thing was pointless... now consider it kicked high into orbit never to return! Laughing
____________________
Previous: Aprilia Habana Retro 50cc (beauty), Yamaha SR125 (fell apart), Honda XR125 (nippy little commuter), Honda SLR650 (Geewhizz), Yamaha Diversion 900S (Smoooooth) written off courtesy of a stupid escaped horse.
(7 year gap), BMW F650 (Relaxing ride). Aprilia Caponord ETV1000 (Big and bold). Yamaha FZS600 (got me in trouble too quick!).
Current: Yamaha TDM 900 (Comfy, light but big, power when needed).
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chris-red
Have you considered a TDM?



Joined: 21 Sep 2005
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PostPosted: 12:42 - 18 Nov 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Feasty wrote:
chris-red wrote:
Crap, anything applied to the vehicle is instantly implied to the driver there is no difference. It's irrelevant what the company thinks it is what the DVLA say. Which is why the insurance will ask about conditions on your licence.

I can tell you that in my house black is white doesn't make it right.


Now that was a beautiful move, completely off topic in one single post. Well done mate. Rolling Eyes

We were talking about the fact a bike shop said their insurance didn't see a 33bhp restricted licence as being a full licence. Then you whipped out the glasses thing.
Well if I turned up at the bike shop with a non-restricted licence (i.e a full one) wearing glasses, they'd still let me ride a bike because I would still have a 'full' licence in their eyes. The glasses wouldn't make a blind bit of difference (that pun was done on purpose by the way! Razz ).
Meaning your analogy of the glasses thing was pointless... now consider it kicked high into orbit never to return! Laughing


Which is where my point about black and white comes in. This thread wasn't about what a garages insurance says, it was about whether a restricted licence is a full one and it is. Either the garage was wrong or the insurance has a condition that says they will not cover people on 33bhp licence. Regardless they cannot declare a 33 licence not a full one the DVLA see it as a full one and they are the ones who issue it.
____________________
Well, you know what they say. If you want to save the world, you have to push a few old ladies down the stairs.
Skudd:- Perhaps she just thinks you are a window licker and is being nice just in case she becomes another Jill Dando.
WANTED:- Fujinon (Fuji) M42 (Screw on) lenses, let me know if you have anything.
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Feasty
World Chat Champion



Joined: 01 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: 12:54 - 18 Nov 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
chris-red wrote:
Which is where my point about black and white comes in. This thread wasn't about what a garages insurance says, it was about whether a restricted licence is a full one and it is. Either the garage was wrong or the insurance has a condition that says they will not cover people on 33bhp licence. Regardless they cannot declare a 33 licence not a full one the DVLA see it as a full one and they are the ones who issue it.


And this takes us riiiiiigggggggghhhhhhht back round again, to my previous post stating: 'I'll let you dispute with the shop wether they are right or wrong'.

Dear me, am I bored now... The problem is you know I'm right yet you seem to think you can still argue about it when taken out of context, which is pointless!
____________________
Previous: Aprilia Habana Retro 50cc (beauty), Yamaha SR125 (fell apart), Honda XR125 (nippy little commuter), Honda SLR650 (Geewhizz), Yamaha Diversion 900S (Smoooooth) written off courtesy of a stupid escaped horse.
(7 year gap), BMW F650 (Relaxing ride). Aprilia Caponord ETV1000 (Big and bold). Yamaha FZS600 (got me in trouble too quick!).
Current: Yamaha TDM 900 (Comfy, light but big, power when needed).
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Rogerborg
nimbA



Joined: 26 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: 13:16 - 18 Nov 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yerrrs. Even though I agree that "A (restricted)" is a "full" license in the DVLA sense from day 1 (which is what GTRay was actually asking), I'd also assume that the plain meaning of a dealer offering test rides to "full" license holders means A without a restriction endorsement. Their gaff, their bikes, their rules.

Anyway, the funnies started here:

GTRAY wrote:
i will probs keep my bike for longer than 2 years anyway


That's what told myself when I passed A2. Heck, I don't really need anything bigger than a 125 for tootling up and down the road. I'll keep it for another year at least! Yeah, took me a week to buy a 250. Laughing

But I'm going to keep that for the rest of the 2 year restriction! Really! Then I spent last night on Gumtree and eBay checking out the local 650s and pricing up restrictor kits for them... Very Happy
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