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| tvchimp |
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tvchimp
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 Posted: 22:10 - 24 Nov 2010  Post subject: Fitting lights/making road legal - an old trials bike? |
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Just wondering if it is possible.
I'm possibly going to be getting an old XL125 or a TY80 for pottering about on over winter (seen both locally for very very cheap) but neither have lights and currently arent road legal due to lack of number plates (were never road registered but have V5 and numbers on frame/engine match).
The journey is only around 6miles so thats why I'm just looking at a smaller CC, nothing more is needed (could probably get by on 50cc haha!) and lack of weight is a bonus as it will be used in snow.
The TY80 is the exact same as the one in this pic:
https://i495.photobucket.com/albums/rr315/matty285/008.jpg
The XL125 is similar to this, however it is not in showroom condition like the one in the picture:
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/_LhgaBAcTB6w/S9nEo1Cv9jI/AAAAAAAAAg8/qKuvgjhwfiM/s1600/TL125+1974-2.JPG
*pics are for illustrative purposes only*
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| Suntan Sid |
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Suntan Sid
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| Posted: 23:31 - 24 Nov 2010 Post subject: |
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| tvchimp |
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tvchimp
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| Posted: 23:56 - 24 Nov 2010 Post subject: |
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Awesome, realised you could get lighting kits but it was more of a thing about how would I make the lights work? I'm not entirely sure if the bikes has the kit to make the lights work.. 
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Suntan Sid
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| stinkwheel |
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stinkwheel
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| Teflon-Mike |
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Teflon-Mike
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Joined: 01 Jun 2010
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| Posted: 13:39 - 25 Nov 2010 Post subject: |
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TY80, is small wheeler, its the 7-13 year olds bike for School-boy Trials. Basically the old DT50E engine, with a big-bore.
They are quite err, spritely for a moped!
On the road, you'll find its a bit cramped for a full size grown up, and a little shall we say 'precariouse'.
If it doesn't have licghting coils in the mag, then the back-plate and rotor from a DT50, or RD50/80 will go in the cases. Or you can go 'total-loss' and run lighting kit of a re-chargeable battery. If you want 12v lights, might be the best way to go!
Other bike isn't an XL its a TL.
Again, not sure if the TL motor had lighting coils in its generator, if not XL back-plate and rotor will probably fit.
TL's are over-priced Classic-Trials icons these days.
Research it VERY bludy carefuly before you pay money.
It may be a 'replica' built from an old XL engine and chopped frame with TL body-work on it. (might still be alright for what you want)
eitehr way, pure trials bikes dont tend to make great road-bikes.
High pegs, low, token seat, they aren't very comfy, and low gearing makes them rather slow.
But the old T-shocks aren't AS bad a proposition as some of the modern stuff, and for local use and a bit of green-laning they can be 'fun', though I'd not really go for the TY80... I mean we're looking for a TY175 for Snowie becouse she's short of leg and cant get her feet flat on a DT..... showing her a TY80 small-wheeler would be seriousely taking the piss!
(They did do a 'White-Hawk' big-wheel conversion, that mounted regulation 18/21 wheels, to kift it a bit for older youths, though, which was quite useful.)
Other big thing with comp-trail bikes on road, is sustained running at speed under load, carburation often quite drastically optimised around low speed running and for throttle response, so they can go well over rtch, or worse, well lean when run wide open for any length of time, leading to pinking, overheats and the usual sort of damage. Two-strokes often nip-up, but that's a bit easier to sort than a 4t with holes slug!
If they have V5's then they were road-registered and should have a number-plate, or at least the index you can put on a number-plate.
That would be 'strange' on a TY80, as they were sold as a pure competition bike, for kids, so no need for them to be road-registered, and would have put the price up paying road-vehicle duty and all that crap....... though there was a vogue a few years back to retro-road register trials-bikes as a precaution against theft, until the SORN laws came in.
In iether case, its anomolouse and I would be checking it out thoroughly.
If you want to use either on the road, then they have to be registered, and if you dont have a log-book for them, then it means vehicle ident checks as well as MOT, and if they are 'nicked', you coule be the one left holding the baby, if you put them in for inspection!
Back to the matter of lamps though, neither actually NEED lights to be road-legal. Both are old enough, and as off-road bikes have cirtain exemptions that allow them to be 'Day-light' MOT'd.
You just cant use them in the dark!
My 1981 Montesa Cota Comp-Trials, actually came from the dealer, without lights. Just a number-plate, tax disc a token speedo down on the fork-leg, and a clowns tooty-horn on the handl-bars!
But as the limitations on a Daylight MOT say 'Not used in reduced visibility conditions, or after dark' or something like that, not much use in the winter, I guess!
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My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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tvchimp
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| Teflon-Mike |
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Teflon-Mike
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| Posted: 03:25 - 29 Nov 2010 Post subject: |
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You know that dirt bikes, knobbly tyres, despite big knobbles suggesting good traction in bad conditions, aren't actually all that great, dont you?
The knobles grip on loose surfaces by 'digging in' to the soft surface, on tarmac, they wont dig in, so all the knobbles do is reduce the area of rubber in contact with the road.
Long knobles also have a problem with 'creep'.
Long unsupported knobbles of rubber act like levers, and as you corner they bend, so as each knobble comes round to make contact with the road its a little outboard of where the last one was, and the tyre sort of 'walks' sideways.... even if its gripping!
Handling 'vagueness' is then further enhanced by the high centre of gravity and 'perched' riding possition.
They're great fun, but even in good conditions, not the most confidence inspiring bikes on the road, too many compromises to be a jack-of-all-trades, on and off road, and hence master of none.
Conventional road bike with 'sensible' rubber will actually work better on most roads in adverse conditions.
That taken on board, though add £99 to your budget and you can get a really cheap and nasty chinese e-bay special brand new...
We know they aint that great, and we know they are likely to break, but third class riding beats first class walking, and if its only a short term fix, maybe worth the doing of, though you'd probably be better off upping the budget a bit and looking for a decent 2nd hand bike of more reputable oragin.
But thought occurs, if you have £500 to buy a bike, why cant you spend it on your DAS instead?!
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Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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tvchimp
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| Teflon-Mike |
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Teflon-Mike
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| Posted: 15:44 - 29 Nov 2010 Post subject: |
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| tvchimp wrote: | | Teflon-Mike wrote: | But thought occurs, if you have £500 to buy a bike, why cant you spend it on your DAS instead?! |
I don't want to do my DAS til after the new year til the weather is slightly better, I have experience of riding in crap (and even more crap) weather, but I'd prefere to be more confident and looking forward to my DAS rather than having a worry and annoyance in the back of my head about dropping the bike due to road conditions or how cold it is..
I own a VFR750 which will the bike I will use once I pass my DAS, however I was hoping to get something along the lines of a 125cc 'dirt-bike (or enduro type)' to use for winter - a 125cc for lightness and ease of picking up if I do end up sliding on my backside is win! Plus lack of plastics makes it slightly cheaper if I do end up sliding on teh road.. |
Err.... first priority is really to AVOID sliding up the road in the first place..........!
Bikes with more weight in them, may be harder to pick up if you fall over, but they also tend to be that bit more planted and less likely to fall over to begin with.....
I used my VF-though through the winter. Thats 120bhp and 600lb, a TANK of a motorbike, yes, hernia time if I had to pick it off its side (I did actually, at the IoM TT... misfooted putting it in its side stand on a verge!) But, on the cruddy country tracks that pass for roads on my daily commute, that mass made it pretty darn planted on the road, even when the surface conditions were far from ideal!
Its something a lot of people are rather over concerned about; poor weather grip, and far over-compensate for the lack of confidence.
Look at road-race lap-times in the wet; yes they change the tyres, but even so, their wet lap times are within 10% of what they do in the dry, they wouldn't be able to keep them that close if the adverse weather reduced grip so inordinately, would they?
On the road, where there are far more 'levelling' factors, the worse weather really shouldn't make any more difference.
In FACT, on a bike, your more likely to crash in the summer......
In the winter, people tend to be a lot more cautiouse, and aren't as often surprised by the conditions. In the summer good clear dry road, people get over confident and cought out by a diesel spill, the slime left by a summer shower, or just shear over exuberance.
And UK winters aren't THAT extreme. Yes its colder, but not that much. We get a little frost and a few days of snow, but we dont suffer months of sub-zero conditions, and its not like we enjoy mediteranian summers!
So, 'sensible' road bike, treated sensibly, and it shouldn't make much odds, summer or winter.
Which brings me to your cunnundrum.
Dirt-Bikes, I said they're great fun, but they aren't the ideal bike to give you the confidence you want in the winter muck. They aren't as planted on the road as a bigger bike, their tyres are compromised and lack grip compared to a road tyre an any condition but soft surfaces, 'off-road', and thier weight might be low, but thier balence isn't great, nor thier handling inspiring, curtecy of high seat height over long soft suspension.
If you want a bike to give you confidence in the winter muck, something like a CB250 or even your VFR750 would be a lot more stable.....
If you want something less preciouse, and really have to stick to a learner-legal, then a conventional commuter, would do all you are asking for, and do it better than a dirt-bike.
Something like an RSX100 or KH125, would be cheap, chearful, and even on cheapo, ecconomy, hard as iron commuter rubber, grip the road better than a dirt-donk's knoblies. They also have less plastic, and less pokie out bits to get bent, then a dirt-bike... so your justifications for one are starting to unravel....
So is there an underlying motive here?
How far off the mark would I be to suggest that riding a moped, the VFR is intimidating you, and much as you want to ride it, idea still scares you? So right now, bad weather is a good excuse for forstalling getting your test done?
Next up, dirt bikes are fun. Less intimidating, and a 125 you could ride now, a stepping stone towards manning up to the challenge of the VFR, and something that can sit happily next to the viffer, for cheap commuting, and some green-lane fun, or waste-ground antics?
If you WANT a little dirt bike, for what a little dirt bike does, then there's nothing wrong with that, but if you are trying to justify one for false reasons, your not doing yourself any favours, and are possibly steering yourself towards the fall you want to avoid.
Now, advice I suggest to to all learners, dont worry about the bike you want to get; worry about getting your licence.
Do your DAS.
Right now, people are shying from booking the courses, becouse of the weather, and the cold and everything you have suggested.
BUT wrap up warm, and keep your wits about you, its hardly any different to in the spring.
APART from the fact that wilst business is so slow, you might find you can get a better deal on your training price, and apointments that better suit your availability.
Doing your training in the cold and the damp, OK, not so pleasant, BUT:-
If poor condition confidence is the thing you lack, training in the spring when the weather's better isn't going to teach you to cope with it, is it, and you'lll be back to square one next winter.
If you are poor condition unconfident, then surely, riding about with an instructor in those conditions is by far the best way to get to grips with them..... not falling of an old ER125 or something!
And if you can hack it in the less than ideal conditions of winter, you should ace it in the better conditions of spring.
THEN decide whether you want to ride the viffer through the rest of the winter, or whether you still want to get a winter-hack.
That hack, COULD be a 125 Trail bike, if thats what you want, knowing its less than ideal, but prepared to live with it for the fun-factor. But could also be any of a million other alternatives of different styles and capacities. 100 or 125 commuter would still do the job, as would an old 250 Super-Dream or similar... options are endless.
But the here and now is, I think you need to get out there, with an instructor, and work on your poor condition confidence.
Without that, dont matter what the bike is, your still going to be that much more likely to fall off it!
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My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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| Blue_SV650S |
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Blue_SV650S
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| itsallgood |
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itsallgood
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| CRF_Rider |
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CRF_Rider
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| Posted: 21:24 - 29 Nov 2010 Post subject: |
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i'm riding a friends road reg Beta rev 3 250 during the winter, but i live out by the moors. its good fun and very easy to plod about on, i'm looking for another Yam TY250 pinkie for the current conditions. the crf is too balls out all the time. have a look for a scorpa ty125 use's the yam engine an would be ideal i reckon.
i find dirt bikes more planted than road bikes, also i prefer the power delivery and the styling. i guess it depends on what your brought up with.
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tvchimp
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| Posted: 18:33 - 30 Nov 2010 Post subject: |
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I have no issues regarding the VFR, I am extremely excited about actually getting on it and going forth upon the world. I just don't enjoy freezing my balls off for no reason other than 'I need to man up'... If I can do my DAS in more enjoyable conditions to a point I'm not worrying about several factors (i.e. Road/Weather conditions) then I'm happy to hold off until the weather is a little better, plus the weather is now pretty severe where I live, since Friday we've had around 5-6inches of snow, with more planned on coming down over the next 24-48hours.
Not exactly ideal biking weather, especially if you're planning on doing a DAS course.
With regards to the 'dirt bike' aspect, I do like the styling of dirt bikes, but more so older trials bike (BSA C15!  ) which is why I enquired about them, plus with the benifits of little amount of plastics, lightness and a slight bit of 'fun factor' when on snow (small drifts and popping wheelies) makes an ideal winter bike in my eyes, more so than a 200+kg sports tourer with parts now not majorly easy (or cheap) to get.
| itsallgood wrote: | What about a cg? You'd get a tatty but rideable one for just over half your budget, I think its the same engine as the xl125 too? |
I don't mind the look of the cg, nor the reasons for why they make the ideal 125cc learner legal bike, but would prefere more of an off road styled 125 bike, one which would cope a little better with snow than a slow-ish commuter.
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