Cheapest way to a full licence ...

[huskie69]

Hi Guys

I've come to the point where I'm really pissed off that I can't overtake Nissan Micras. I've therefore decided that the sooner I take my full test and get a quicker bike, the better. The micra driving crinklies can then eat my helmet.

I've read about DAS but I'm a little concerned about the cost - it's £500-£600. It's seems a bit pricey for what is essentially just £85 in test fees and the use of a bike for a couple of days.

However, it seems it's the only option for someone with no experience with larger bikes. From what I've read, in order for me to ride an unrestricted machine, I need to pass my test in a bike that's 46kw or higher - so I need access to a bike like this for the test.

For those of you who rode on a CBT for a while before taking the full bike test, how did you go about taking the test - DAS or is there another cheaper option?
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'10 Skyjet SJ125-23 - Crashed > '09 YBR 125 > '53 Suzuki SV650 - Died > 2010 Suzuki VanVan 125 > '87 Yamaha FZ750 Sold > VTR 1000 FireStorm - Sold > Honda CB1000R

[huskie69]

Ahh - looks like Rogerborg has answered this already last month https://www.bikechatforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=209540

So basically I've 3 options (please correct me if I'm wrong)

1) Continue riding on 125 'perpetual learner' stylee.

Not really an option as I need something with a bit power - and tbh, I really don't feel safe on such thin tyres!

2) Go for my mod1 and mod2 on my 125 and then ride (anything below 33hp?) for 2 years until restrictions are removed

Hmm - 2 years is a long time!

3)Bite the bullet and fork out for the DAS

Could buy a bike for the same price!

Any other options?
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'10 Skyjet SJ125-23 - Crashed > '09 YBR 125 > '53 Suzuki SV650 - Died > 2010 Suzuki VanVan 125 > '87 Yamaha FZ750 Sold > VTR 1000 FireStorm - Sold > Honda CB1000R

[bencav]

Errghh, reminds me I have a silly credit card bill for DAS!!!

I think DAS is the way forward, then you dont need to buy a bike, restrict it, then wait 2 loooonnngggg years to de-restrict it (legally)

Cheapest way to do DAS - Pass 1st time

[ajbsmirnoff]

The DAS fee is also bike hire, insurance, and tuition.... and £85 in test fees.
It seems pricey, but price up what a full day of tuition costs from a cheap driving school and its a bargain.

[pinkyfloyd]

[dougie_t]

You dont have to do the DAS all in one go - you can take it over a longer period and spread the cost that way, paying as you go.

For example, I took my DAS over a period of about 5-6 months and was given the option of paying in two or three installments.
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CBT: 23/5/10. Theory: 10/6/10. Mod 1: 14/10/10. Mod 2: 9/11/10. Bike: Not got one yet

[ajbsmirnoff]

[Teflon-Mike]

You dont have to do DAS, or a DAS course then convert, but probably not for you.

Cost wise I always advocate formal road training on a 125.

You wouldn't expect to jump into a car and be allowed to drive, on your own, unsupervised straight away....Yet, becouse by some dint of legacy in the legislation, you are allowed to do just that on a motorbike, thats probably nine times more dangerouse, people expect to, and actually resent having to do CBT!

Nor, would you expect to pass your car test, without taking at least some lessons with an instructor, let alone, going for your test, after few hours driving on your own, with no one telling you what you are doing right or wrong...... so why do people expect to do it like that on a bike, JUST becouse you dont HAVE to pass a test before your allowed out on your own?

Plenty of people will advocate DIYing it, either for 125 or DA. Rogerborg is one of them, that's how he did it. But there are some special circumstances in his situation, and reading his blog, I've had students of his same mind-set, and formal training often doesn't suit them, and they get little from it anyway.

It CAN be done, but, its doing it the hard way, and it's not always the 'best' way, and it depends on personal circumstances and out-look whether its even practicable.

If you dont have the sort of 'informal' support around you to help you learn, not just to ride the bike, but pass a test, then it can be a complete hiding to no-where, and formal traing really your only hope.

In the middle ground, informal guidance and support plus some formal training, and self-practice, is a really good way to learn, and pass.

Old school style, an extended course, with weekly lessons, on your own bike, so that you can practice what you have learned in each lesson, between lessons is really, a very very good way to train.

Intensive courses, whether 125 or DAS, cramming everything into a very short period, doesn't give you the chance to absorb and make sense of stuff so readily, nor the chance to practice it and really master it.

Its like fast food. Fills you up for a short while, but your soon hungry again. And lots of what you take on board in intensive training will be completely or partly forgotten, very quickly as you brain tryes to sift the more and less important 'stuff' without really knowing what really is or isn't important.

Lots of schools 'push' DAS training, as the instructors often preffer giving it, as they aren't squaring thier tyres and frustrated, following a 125 about, and they can charge a hell of a lot more for it.

Schools that DO offer 125 road-training, and do it in weekly chunks, like you would do car driving lessons, are more likely to be the more contientiouse of the tuition they give, and less concerned with getting students money off them, and simply getting them a licence.

Now, stepping up to a bigger bike, its not JUST the licence, the qualification that lets you ride it, its the grounding you have that will make you ready for it.

My old wood-work teacher always told me; you might be able to use an electric saw, but unless you know how to handle a hand-saw, all it will do is let you cock up the job quicker. Same applies to bikes.

So my advice is, dont try going it alone; get some formal training to not just help you pass a test, but also learn to be a better rider and prepare you for a power-tool.

Find a school that will offer weekly 125 road-training, in two hour lessons or so. Book some. do some. Listen to your instructor. They will prepare you for test, and tell you when you are ready to go for it.

IF you dont want to be stuck with 2 year restriction, then talk to your instructor about it. AFTER doing the bulk of your training on your own 125, and already ready for test, a 2hr session on a 500 (or whatever school uses), is a LOT cheaper than an intensive DAS course; and you can do one of them to just see IF you LIKE it as well as can handle it, and if so, how much work on a 500 you'd need, before going for a DAS course.

Pre-trained on a 125, bit of luck, should only take that one 'taster' lesson, and maybe a 2hr Pre-Test, and you can turn up at the Test centre on the 500, rather than the 125. Bike hire for the DAS lessons and test, will obviousely add cost, but by far less than a full DAS course.

End of the day, very little of the DAS training NEEDS a 500 under you. Of a 3 day DAS course, you probably only spend 15 hrs in the saddle anyway, and of your time in the saddle, an awful lot of it is round the streets, remembering life-savers, and when and where to indicate. Yes, having the heavier bike under you gives you more familiarity with it, but, if you have got the hang of riding and all the good habbits ingrained on a 125, then you dont need THAT much to step up to the 500, taking them with you, and just getting used to the bigger bike.

As the 'more' ecconomical way to go, its the one I reccomend. Doing it 'byte-size' on a 125. Weekly lessons, with self practice between, then when ready for test, two or three DAS lessons, just to step up to the bigger bike, saving high course fees, and avoiding the 'cramming effect'.

You'll learn better. You'll get more information for your money, and more of it will 'stick' and have relevence, better preparing you as a rider, than merely making you qualified, AND you'll save money over a DAS course.

WILL cost more than trying to DIY it, but at the end of the day, some better training will SIGNIFICANTLY improve your chances of passing 1st time, but that's an irrelevence, to the matter of actually making you a 'good' and well prepared rider, rather than merely a full licence holder.

Lots of people have full licences, often means they are qualified numpties, rather than unqualified ones!

I cannot stress the value of good quality training. Best way to improve the performance of almost any bike, is to stick a better rider on it. Yet, people will spend hundreds or thousands of pounds, on higher performance bikes, or go-faster goodies, that may or may not be all that useful, and then stick the same old numpty in the saddle.....

Make yourself a better rider, it will make ANYTHING you ride a 'better' bike. Its a performance upgrade thats with you for life, bolts onto every bike you will ever own or ride, improves performance, improves reliability, improves safety, NEVER wears out, goes out of fasion or devalues the machine, worries insurance premiums (often can actually lower them!), or devalues with age.... in fact, coupled with experience it just gets better and better....

Look at it this way.... pair of sticky sports tyres, what they cost £200? and whats the best hey can do, make you a couple of mph faster down your favourite twisty lane, for a couple of thousand miles....

£200 worth of training will make you just as, if not faster, down that lane, FOR EVER.... AND help you not crash while doing so.

Which is best value?

What do you want to do?

If you just want a big bike, and you need a licence to get it, fine, whatever works, but iof you want to get best value out of getting that licence..... get smart, and get trained.
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My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?'

[Bloke]

[Rogerborg]

25kW/33bhp gets you a Ninja 250. That'll get you past a lot more than Micras, at least up to the legal speed limit.

[huskie69]

@Teflon-Mike - your post is very informative, I appreciate your input and will take it all into consideration, thanks.

[whitedevil]

Do the DAS mate, you could be riding a nice 600 in a week. I did it and never looked back. 125's are for 17 y/o kids and commuters. if you get a 250 you're gonna be raping it everywhere just like the 17 y/o who you buy it off.

[nokiakeys]

It's all about a DAS. Mine cost me 490 for 4 days course.

But the instructor was good, he tought us pass and more. I have to say I feel a lot safer on my hornet than my baby 125, but that not just because it's faster but my riding style is a lot better due to training.

2 years is a long time... really long time. If you can afford it do the DAS you won't regret it. And you look at ANY BIKE YOU WANT.... but don't be nuts... your still new.

I aced my mod1 and only 2 minors on mod2 (failed to indicator twice ... but I was in a filter lane!!!!!!)
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CBT: 04/2010 -> Theory: 09/2010 -> MOD1 & 2: 10/2010 (That's right baby, both on same day)
Honda CBF125 -> Honda CB600FS

[Darth]

Ask the Training centre if they will agree to give you a better price if they think you are ready sooner.

For example i had like you been riding around on my 125 for a decent while (3 months! ) and felt comfortable on the road (13 years in car too) so although i was booked on a 4 day course i asked for an assessment from the trainer after day one to see how much training they honestly felt i needed. After day one and possibly helped by my fellow trainee dropping out at the last minute so being able to get one on one training the chap agreed we could probably cover everything in only 2 full days riding then quick practice on the morning of my test so only paid £325 in total.
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Harold_Shand wrote: I suppose it's like anything, you get your fingers burned when you start out, you learn from it and eventually become a complete arsehole about the whole thing.

[Teflon-Mike]

[waffles]

If you are old enough, do the DAS. You normally get an assessment on a 125 then a changeover day onto a 500cc. You aren't limited and have your pick of whatever you want to ride.

I personally found riding the bigger bikes a lot easier than a 125 as they feel more planted on the road and I could lean them into the corners more confidently. My 125 I could throw around the corners but have to use a better technique on the bigger bikes. If that makes sense!
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Theory test - 19/8/09, CBT - 11/10/09, MOD 1 - 16/8/10, MOD 2 - 27/10/10
Past rides Yamaha XT125X, Triumph TT600, Honda XR250
Current rides Suzuki GSXR 600, Honda MSX125

[Teflon-Mike]

[Bikeless]

I bought a 400,insured it,had 2 lessons then test,cheapest option if you are going to buy a bike anyway and keep it.

[huskie69]

[Bikeless]

[huskie69]

[Rogerborg]

Well, that's the reality of it. Either pay the money for DAS, or do an A2 on your own bike then get a 250 / 400 / restricted bigger bike and wait it out. Those are your options.

I mean, except for doing A2 then just getting a big bike and riding your luck for 2 years. Not legal, but relatively low risk.

[Rogerborg]

Well, that's the reality of it. Either pay the money for DAS, or do an A2 on your own bike then get a 250 / 400 / restricted bigger bike and wait it out. Those are your options.

I mean, except for doing A2 then just getting a big bike and riding your luck for 2 years. Not legal, but relatively low risk.