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96 to 04 XR400, cast bore or chrome bore?

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Syris the Indomitable
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PostPosted: 10:25 - 10 Jan 2011    Post subject: 96 to 04 XR400, cast bore or chrome bore? Reply with quote
My options are .25mm and .5mm over sized rings/piston.
According to the mannual the top standard ring is a chrome ring, so would I be right in saying that the bore is a cast bore and that I can have it rebored or re-honed to .25mm oversize.

Thanks!
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 10:38 - 10 Jan 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hi

Seems unlikely that they would be listing over size pistons and rings if it cannot be rebored.

All the best

Keith
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Syris the Indomitable
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PostPosted: 12:42 - 10 Jan 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
Arrr yeah!
The penny just dropped!
Thanks!

Rings for over sized nikasil bores go up by 1/10th milli.

These go up by .25 and .5.
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 12:44 - 10 Jan 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
The Thinker wrote:

Rings for over sized nikasil bores go up by 1/10th milli.


Yes, although probably 1/100th for plated bores.

All the best

Keith
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baldy
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PostPosted: 19:58 - 10 Jan 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
My 2001 xr400 has a steel/iron liner in it. As far as i know it is standard. certain it's not plated.
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Syris the Indomitable
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PostPosted: 20:09 - 10 Jan 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
OK thanks, if the suns out tomoz i'm going to take it apart.
I need to have a look at the barrel and piston to see if it needs a .25 oversize and rebore or just new standard rings. The latter I hope!
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weasley
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PostPosted: 20:18 - 10 Jan 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kickstart wrote:
Seems unlikely that they would be listing over size pistons and rings if it cannot be rebored.


There are plenty of people selling oversized pistons for my KDX 125, which definitely has a plated bore. You can rebore and replate or get it sleeved with a boreable iron sleeve.

Not saying the XR is or isn't plated, but just wanted to make sure this flawed logic wasn't the only information used to make the decision.
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Blue_SV650S
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PostPosted: 20:22 - 10 Jan 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
I thought nicosil was solely a 2t thing? Confused
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baldy
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PostPosted: 20:26 - 10 Jan 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
My xr has nearly 20000m on it and has a badly oval bore. It's sat in the kitchen in bits.

Since i got the ktm, it's been on hold, along with my other bikes.
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Syris the Indomitable
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PostPosted: 20:51 - 10 Jan 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
Blue_SV650S wrote:
I thought nicosil was solely a 2t thing? Confused

Yeah, they tend to go up 10th of a milli at a time because nicosil's can be re-honed a 10th of a milli at a time.

The kits for the XR go up .25 and .5 which suggests the bore is a cast confirmed by Baldy and Kickstart.
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baldy
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PostPosted: 20:54 - 10 Jan 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
Blue_SV650S wrote:
I thought nicosil was solely a 2t thing? Confused


I think it is used on higher tuned engines. I think it has better tolerances and lower friction than iron.

My ktm 400 is 4t and has a plated bore, but so does my kr1 250.
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Syris the Indomitable
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PostPosted: 21:00 - 10 Jan 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
baldy wrote:
My xr has nearly 20000m on it and has a badly oval bore. It's sat in the kitchen in bits.

Since i got the ktm, it's been on hold, along with my other bikes.


I do feel mine will go on for much longer but this morning riding uphill, coldish engine, against the wind and rain in 5th gear doing 30 I opened the throttle to no avail in a 40 with cars behind me. LOL!

It's lacking compression when I kick start it too, I don't even need the decompression lever.
I like the bike so much I'm going to give it a good overhall.

Oh, I pumped the tyres up tonight and there was only 9 PSI in the rear tyre which couldn't have helped either.

Is your KTM the two stroke or the 4 stroke version?
I do like them but have been told the two stroke version need regular top end rebuilds.
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Frost
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PostPosted: 21:04 - 10 Jan 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ceramic bore is what you want. Until you need to replace it that is..
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Syris the Indomitable
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PostPosted: 21:08 - 10 Jan 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
DaFrostyOne wrote:
Ceramic bore is what you want. Until you need to replace it that is..


Yeah, they must last longer as it's used in guns.
Must be expensive though!
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 21:51 - 10 Jan 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hi

Plenty of 4 strokes have plated bores (including some cars)

weasley wrote:

There are plenty of people selling oversized pistons for my KDX 125, which definitely has a plated bore. You can rebore and replate or get it sleeved with a boreable iron sleeve.


But do Kawasaki sell these, or just random aftermarket pistons?

All the best

Keith
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baldy
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PostPosted: 00:59 - 11 Jan 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
My ktm is 4t, but still needs regular rebuilds. Oil change every 10 hours, engine rebuild every 60 hours according to the book.
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reggie
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PostPosted: 01:07 - 11 Jan 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
Blue_SV650S wrote:
I thought nicosil was solely a 2t thing? Confused


its the old way of doing it modern bikes have plated bores for the simple reason of tighter piston to barrel tolerance and heat transfer

and in my exsperance a plated bore lasts alot longer than a cast/liner bore
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Syris the Indomitable
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PostPosted: 09:45 - 12 Jan 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
baldy wrote:
My ktm is 4t, but still needs regular rebuilds. Oil change every 10 hours, engine rebuild every 60 hours according to the book.


I am really confused now, I have just been looking a KTM 660 4 stroke LC, 1500 miles three and a half G, and the chap in the bike shop say the 4 strokes are really robust and reliable, made in Switzerland. I saw some on bike trader with well over 20,000 miles

Just an example of high milage.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201102376829310/sort/priceasc/usedbikes/engine-size-bikes/490cc_to_675cc/make/ktm/page/1/postcode/ol35aj/quicksearch/true/radius/1500?logcode=p
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In Greek mythology Ichor is what immortals have in the place of blood
Those that mind, don't matter...Those that matter, don't mind. Do you agree with this?
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Blue_SV650S
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PostPosted: 10:30 - 12 Jan 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
The Thinker wrote:
baldy wrote:
My ktm is 4t, but still needs regular rebuilds. Oil change every 10 hours, engine rebuild every 60 hours according to the book.


I am really confused now, I have just been looking a KTM 660 4 stroke LC, 1500 miles three and a half G, and the chap in the bike shop say the 4 strokes are really robust and reliable, made in Switzerland. I saw some on bike trader with well over 20,000 miles

Just an example of high milage.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201102376829310/sort/priceasc/usedbikes/engine-size-bikes/490cc_to_675cc/make/ktm/page/1/postcode/ol35aj/quicksearch/true/radius/1500?logcode=p


It's the smaller ones that are the bother! I also think it depends on use, if it is used in competition, you will need to keep onto of things a lot more.
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Syris the Indomitable
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PostPosted: 11:23 - 12 Jan 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ok cheers, yeah it must be the 2 strokes.
Hope so!
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Those that mind, don't matter...Those that matter, don't mind. Do you agree with this?
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Blue_SV650S
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PostPosted: 17:46 - 12 Jan 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
The Thinker wrote:
Ok cheers, yeah it must be the 2 strokes.
Hope so!


No, I meant the 250cc 4t's
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 11:02 - 13 Jan 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
The Thinker wrote:
Ok cheers, yeah it must be the 2 strokes.
Hope so!


It isn't unusual for 4 strokes to require a lot of maintenance (and for that maintenance to cost a shed load more than on a 2 stroke). However it tends to be the competition derived 4 strokes.

From memory the Aprilia SVX 4 stroke V twin is meant to have a rebuild at a fairly low number of hours use.

All the best

Keith
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Syris the Indomitable
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PostPosted: 11:24 - 13 Jan 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
K. Thanks, you learn something new every day.
So the 4 stroke LC 640 and 660 KTM's are made to last then?
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