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Congestion charging within the M25?

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Ste
Not Work Safe



Joined: 01 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: 10:56 - 02 Jan 2004    Post subject: Congestion charging within the M25? Reply with quote

Seems like Ken is looking for more ways of charging the road user!

https://news.independent.co.uk/uk/transport/story.jsp?story=477415

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GFK
Scooby Slapper



Joined: 02 Apr 2003
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PostPosted: 11:20 - 02 Jan 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote

They're trying to "drip-feed" congestion charging - I reckon it will cover most if not all of the UK by 2010.

If they did it all in one swoop, there'd be an uprising of 'poll tax protest' proportions. If they do it gradually, they think we're too dumb to notice they're doing it.

Beats the shit out of me why they don't tackle the real issue; "Why is public transport so shit?"

I bet most of the money us motorists have to pay out, doesn't even go towards improving the roads or transport system in any way. They just shovel it all into the NHS to help treat smokers who have given themselves fucking cancer.

</rant>
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Robby
Dirty Old Man



Joined: 16 May 2002
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PostPosted: 11:37 - 02 Jan 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well the tax on fags more than pays for the people that get smoking related diseases, it covers a pretty large portion of the NHS.

Public transport. Its just not worth it. I worked out some interesting little bits from one of the goverments plans.

The government plans to put £22bn into the rail network over the next 3 or 5 years. Now to most of us 22bn is just an unfeasibly large number, so you just write it off as 22bn.
The population of the UK is approximately 60 million people, going by the latest cencus. £22bn divided by 60 million = £366.66 per person going into the railways. Knock off the non taxpayers and it would be closer to £550 per taxpayer.

So. Most of us will be paying about £550 over the next few years to get the railways up to scratch. Well, not up to par with europe, but they might possibly work a bit better. possibly.

But then only about 10% of the population actually use the railways regularly. Which gives us the lovely little problem that the government are spending about £5000 on each of those people.

Thats enough to buy every commuter to a small car or a big bike. Tarmaccing the railways would give us a lot more direct roads into the centre of towns and cities, and ease congestion all over the UK.

But then, thats not going to happen. Labour loves pouring money into the railways.
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Bendy
Mrs Sensible



Joined: 10 Jun 2002
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PostPosted: 11:53 - 02 Jan 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good old Ken. Middle Finger Evil or Very Mad Middle Finger

So house prices in London are so stupid that your average family can't actually afford to live there, so they move out, taking on a long commute (which nobody wants) and then end up paying not only the increased petrol to get to work, but a congestion charge too. Rolling Eyes
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Kris
World Chat Champion



Joined: 03 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 12:00 - 02 Jan 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote

What gets me is that these railways are supposed to be privatised, i.e. 'self-sufficient'. What the fuck is the government doing bailing these companies out for?? Evil or Very Mad All that happens is that the company fat-cats are creaming off the money and not doing a fucking thing about the real problems such as fucked lines or old stock. When is the government going to realise privatisation fucks everything up Confused And when is the government going to stop these 'handouts'. Can you really see the company bosses saying to themselves "We really must improve - otherwise the government will bail us out again with £x billion" ?? Yea course Rolling Eyes

/rant
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Kickstart
The Oracle



Joined: 04 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 12:33 - 02 Jan 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote

GFK wrote:
They're trying to "drip-feed" congestion charging - I reckon it will cover most if not all of the UK by 2010.


Probably about right. We already now have a toll motorway, and the Dartford crossing toll should have ended years ago but they kept it on (was meant to last until it had paid for the crossing, which is already has done)

GFK wrote:
I bet most of the money us motorists have to pay out, doesn't even go towards improving the roads or transport system in any way. They just shovel it all into the NHS to help treat smokers who have given themselves fucking cancer.


Not true. Smokers cost the NHS about £1.5bn each year, yet pay around £9bn in tax. Furthermore as they die younger they are unlikely to cost much in pensions or in expensive treatment late in life such as hip replacements.

There is around £40bn collected in taxes on road use. Until recently around £6bn was spent on the road (and that includes the amount handed out as bus subsidies).

The M6 Toll road cost £900m for 27 miles, which could have been paid for from with about 8 days worth of road user tax. Compare that to the billions of pounds wasted on an upgrade (not even a new railway) to the East Coast main line.

The railways are screwed up badly. They make no financial sense, except that some big cities would collapse without them. The levels of subsidies are huge. Some lines manage without subsidies but others need massive amounts, and I think the lines round Liverpool are the worst at around 35p per passenger mile.

All the best

Keith
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