New Road Tax Law -- Hmm !

Ian (GPX) · Brolly Dolly Joined: 05 Aug 2003 Karma :

A scheme to impose automatic £80 fines on motorists without an up-to-date tax disc has been criticised by a motoring organisation.

https://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3361405.stm

Under the rules - which come into force from 1 January - fines will be imposed with the use of computerised records.

The AA said it was regrettable that no formal appeal system had been set up by the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency in cases of extenuating circumstances.

stooz · Two Stroke Sniffer Joined: 23 Dec 2003 Karma :

you have to laugh (dont you?) Another money making scheme sucking funds from the motorist...

At least you get a 1 month grace before the auto letter.

Yep that will catch the taxless un-insured Confused

There bound to rush straight down the post office and pay that fine... Cuz itsa bound to be registered to there adress.... Rolling Eyes

Ste · Not Work Safe Joined: 01 Sep 2002 Karma :

Wonder how many people who have slipped through the SORN net will be caught out by this?

Or the number of bikes which just don't exist anymore whose previous owners will be sent fines to Confused

Bendy · Mrs Sensible Joined: 10 Jun 2002 Karma :

<grumble about fine>

However, keeping your tax current isn't exactly difficult so I don't really have a problem with this to be honest. If it's on road, you tax it. If it's off, you SORN it. Job done.

But I do agree that your malicious tax dodgers won't have the vehicle registered to their name, so won't help much.

It strikes me that some simple use of a couple of databases would go a long way to helping the whole no tax no insurance no licence problem...

The DVLA has a record of every car which is on the road. This would include whether it had been taxed that year or not, and thus whether it had been MOT'd. Cross reference this with the grand 'all insurance companies' database (which seemingly doesn't exist, but should) - every car that doesn't have an insurance policy relating to it, you research further.

You could equally look at the names insured on vehicles, cross check them with the licensing side of the DVLA, and then you'd see the strange people who decide to insure something they can't legally drive/ride.

Using the vehicle details checks, you could also pull out suspicious patterns, which could go some way to finding people who aren't re-registering their vehicles correctly. Even as simple as sending someone who registers a change a letter asking for details of their previous vehicle, to see if they got rid of it or not.

All dodgy vehicles are then on the system available to the plod so they can be stopped on the road. Conversely, a simple plate and licence check at the roadside will let them know about your insurance, tax, mot etc, getting rid of the hassle of producers.

Yeah, it's a lot of admin, and I'm sure people will pick holes in it, but it strikes me that the information is all there, the authorities just don't put it all together in a way that can be used. Face it, when you buy your tax disc they still write down the details in a big book Rolling Eyes

Kickstart · The Oracle Joined: 04 Feb 2002 Karma :

Hi

SORN is a total waste of time. As Bendy says you should have tax if you are on the road, but what is the point of the system in the first place? The only arguments are that it forces people to show some vague proof of MOT and insurance once a year, yet the first of those DOES now have a central database, while MOTs should have one but the project is running about a year behind schedule (which is why you now get a blue windscreen sticker with your MOT, as a short term bodge). Therefore the tax disk system is a total waste of time. Scrap it and just collect the tax on fuel, which at least is related to how much road you use.

I would suspect that each tax disk is probably costing around £10 in administration, so that is a vast amount of waste (it would be cheaper just to send more money to the Swansea dole office).

There is also the problem in this new system of people going on holiday. You cannot tax a vehicle more than 2 weeks before the end of the month. Wonder how many people are going to come back from a month abroad to find a letter demanding money with menaces from the DVLA.

It is also hardly like the DVLA have a decent database. The one plus point of this is that when they start sending fines out all over the place it is going to be obvious how badly out of date there data is. Hopefully enough people will complain to the data protection registrar to get the DVLA banned from holding personal records.

All the best

Keith
____________________
Traxpics, track day and racing photographs - Bimota Forum - Bike performance / thrust graphs for choosing gearing

stooz · Two Stroke Sniffer Joined: 23 Dec 2003 Karma :

"cannot tax a vehicle more than 2 weeks before the end of the month. Wonder how many people are going to come back from a month abroad to find a letter demanding money with menaces from the DVLA.
"

so thats 6 weeks... + 2 weeks renewal notice.. who has 8 week holidays, and doesnt check insurance tax, council tax, gas is off... before they go?

I have no sympathy for lack of common sense, certainly wont be fighting THEIR corner when they get fined.

Kickstart · The Oracle Joined: 04 Feb 2002 Karma :

stooz · Two Stroke Sniffer Joined: 23 Dec 2003 Karma :

nope, just no sympathy if they whinge. I may or may not agree with fines, but its easy enough to keep your house in order if your travelling away.
most people will have relatives back home sorting stuff out. answering the post??? getting the bin bags out of the letterbox...

If you get inland revenue tax bills, fines etc they you need to deal with them. theres no point whinging about it 6 months later.

just common sense to sort something out.

Kickstart · The Oracle Joined: 04 Feb 2002 Karma :

Hi

Try it in reality, it does not work. Sure they can answer your post, or forward it to you. This rule is going to lead to loads of people getting done for no tax / no SORN, yet both are totally pointless these days. Just a way of getting more revenue (which many people will not be able to avoid getting hit with) for no real purpose at all.

Sure you can get a neighbour to send you post to you, but by the time it has been collected, got round to the other side of the world, been processed and sent back then that 6 weeks could easily be up.

Even more fun is going to be had by those who have to declare SORN then drive their cars home from the airport.

These rules are rather different from car insurance, or tax demands. Car insurance can easily be sorted out over the phone (just try ringing the DVLA and renewing your tax disk by phone). Tax demands have a far greater lead time, rather than 2 weeks.

I am not saying whinge about it 6 months later. I am saying kick up a stink now, 1 month / 6 months / 10 years before we get fucked over for a fine with absolutly no purpose at all.

All the best

Keith
____________________
Traxpics, track day and racing photographs - Bimota Forum - Bike performance / thrust graphs for choosing gearing

stooz · Two Stroke Sniffer Joined: 23 Dec 2003 Karma :

like I said, didnt say I agreed with the fines. But actually I do.
untaxed is uninsured is not on.

tax is tax, you pay it. You dont pay it, you get fined.
this car tax is just the same as all the other failure to pay tax fines we already have in existence.

OK there are some excuses, but they will cater for that, you have proof you out the country for 6 months, fine. But theres bound to be tonnes of, oh I mislaid the envelope, and I needed new trainers and couldnt afford it..

sorry, Im just getting the baa humbug new years "come down"

McJamweasel · BCF Junkie Joined: 22 Mar 2002 Karma :

But its already been said that they won't cater for any extenuating circumstances. There is no appeals procedure.
____________________
BCF: Be yourself, just don't be an arse.

Kris · World Chat Champion Joined: 03 Feb 2002 Karma :

I think Keith is fighting the corner of people that would try to pay tax etc, not people who purposely drive without it.
____________________
NSR125RR - ZXR750H1 - ZX9R E1 - GSF600S - GSF600SK3 - VFR400-NC30 - SV1000N - ST1100-R - CBR900RR-R - GSF1200SK5 - GSF600SK1 - VFR1200FA - GSXR1000K2 - ZZR1400 D8F
www.prisonplanet.com

Kickstart · The Oracle Joined: 04 Feb 2002 Karma :

Bendy · Mrs Sensible Joined: 10 Jun 2002 Karma :

It's perfectly simple - people should be able to pay their VED by direct debit, like you can with your tv licence. Then you could do it monthly to keep the cost down, and it wouldn't matter if you were here or not to handle the paperwork.

Taking your insurance and MOT to the post office for the counter clerk to look at and note down in a big ledger is so outdated it's frankly laughable.

Ste · Not Work Safe Joined: 01 Sep 2002 Karma :

Especially with the staff they choose to employ there who are unable to count the correct money when they give you change, and the ease of faking the documents required on a modern PC Confused

Kickstart · The Oracle Joined: 04 Feb 2002 Karma :

stooz · Two Stroke Sniffer Joined: 23 Dec 2003 Karma :

your sposed to be nice to me, Im new!! Crying or Very sad

im gunna go home and sit in the corner...

stooz · Two Stroke Sniffer Joined: 23 Dec 2003 Karma :

your sposed to be nice to me, Im new!! Crying or Very sad

im gunna go home and sit in the corner...

P_J · Nearly there... Joined: 24 Nov 2002 Karma :

Just how quickly do these fines get issued?

My bike TAX expired 31st Dec 2003, which was a wednesday. The 1st was a Thursday, normaly you would be able to go and buy your TAX, but with this being New Years Day, that was not possible.

I went on the 2nd and bought the TAX but was wondering if you are meant to buy it before it expires or what.

Ian (GPX) · Brolly Dolly Joined: 05 Aug 2003 Karma :

You have 30 days grace from the day it runs out, then your in sh*t street as they say unless you send in a SORN form to say it's off the road, and don't use the car / bike on the road until you have got the new TAX disc or you will / might get stung !

JimboJ · Manc Pikey Joined: 23 Aug 2002 Karma :

My car had no tax from 30th of November until start of this month, it now has tax etc I won't get a fine will I?
____________________
[00:42] <NSR-Andy> which one's the missionary position
[00:42] <NSR-Andy> i've heard it's good
[9:42pm] <Shaun> you came first mike | <Shaun> yes gav, because I really want to fuck you

Kickstart · The Oracle Joined: 04 Feb 2002 Karma :

Ian (GPX) · Brolly Dolly Joined: 05 Aug 2003 Karma :

Just seen on Sky One an advert about this new TAX law, and it seems that they have handed the computer the job of sending out instant fines (£80.00) if your method of transport is not TAXed.

The new rules mean that keepers who fail to re-license their vehicle (or declare SORN) will incur an automatic penalty of £80 (reduced to £40 if paid within 28 days).

See here --> https://www.dvla.gov.uk/newrules/car_tax.htm

Question is now, how many people are going to get stung by this ? Say the computer has a funny turn and issues a fine when your TAX disc is current ! There is no appeal, so I'll be saying, fine, take me to court and see what the Magistrates say !

The other thing, lots of people that have sold a vehicle are going to get stung too if they have not informed the DVLA that it's been sold on to someone else, and while I think of it, the same can be said if you have scrapped the vehicle too !

So, be careful guys and girls, one slip and the DVLA will hold you up and put a gun to your head and demand money.

DVLA = Direct Vehicle Leaching Association