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Derbi Senda 125 Baja Sm - 4 Stroke - VERY VERY SLOW - 60mph?

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B3NN10N
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PostPosted: 20:32 - 04 Apr 2011    Post subject: Derbi Senda 125 Baja Sm - 4 Stroke - VERY VERY SLOW - 60mph? Reply with quote

Hi folks.

I have just bought a Derbi Senda 125 Baja (2010 UK model) and I am very very disappointed with its performance. My last 125 was a TZR and it was pretty unreal for a 125 but being older and wiser I have settled for a 4 stroke which suits my height and without the bee in the jam jar sound.
The top speed of the Derbi is a shameful 60mph and I am told it is the engine out of a Honda Cityfly which also shares the shameful top speed.

Basically the reason for this thread is to pose the question - How can I get more Power?

I don't mind spending the cash as it will make the bike safer if i can get an extra 10-15mph out of it but I have no idea how to do this and no one seems to want to know in the local bike shops.

Any information would be greatly appreciated and comments like 'buy a bigger bike' and 'buy a 2 stroke' wont be appreciated.

Any hows - thanks in advance!
Andy.
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MattJ
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PostPosted: 21:33 - 04 Apr 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you want a faster bike, get a bigger one. Why get a 125cc 4 stroke if you want a higher top speed?
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B3NN10N
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PostPosted: 21:41 - 04 Apr 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

How did I know someone would suggest a bigger bike.... The answer is maybe because I am on L plates and didnt want a 10 year old 125 bike with 40 previous owners??

Thanks for the higher gearing idea but I don't think I will go down that route.
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G
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PostPosted: 21:42 - 04 Apr 2011    Post subject: Re: Derbi Senda 125 Baja Sm - 4 Stroke - VERY VERY SLOW - 60 Reply with quote

B3NN10N wrote:
but being older and wiser....no one seems to want to know in the local bike shops.

Older, but less wise, it seems Wink.

That noise you didn't like, you have swapped for the sound of 'slow' Smile.

No doubt it could be made faster, but not without spending a fair bit and probably making it a fair bit less reliable than a 2 stroke.

Buy a bigger bike (doing your test if needed), or just stick to a 2 stroke. Just because you don't appreciate comments, doesn't make them the most sensible choice.
To be fair, you do get faster 4 strokes that use a bit more modern engine designs - for instance the 20 year old CB125T Smile.
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B3NN10N
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PostPosted: 21:48 - 04 Apr 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kinda figured this would be a waste of time but I would still rather have the sound of a 4 stroke over a 2 stroke.

The plan is to complete my full test after being sensible and gaining road experience on a 125. So I dont jump on a VFR400 and die or break my back etc!!!!!!!!!

Being 6 foot 4 - find me a 2 stroke that doesn't look like i am riding a monkey bike!!!! Hence the benefit of the baja being suitable for my size.
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B3NN10N
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PostPosted: 21:51 - 04 Apr 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ps I don't appreciate the comments because it is simply stating the obvious without thinking about the initial question...
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B3NN10N
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PostPosted: 21:52 - 04 Apr 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baja is still bigger in size than the DT.
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MattJ
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PostPosted: 22:08 - 04 Apr 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

B3NN10N wrote:
Ps I don't appreciate the comments because it is simply stating the obvious


Exactly.

I am sorry that I cannot help you but I really do think putting up with it being slow and then doing your test and getting a bigger bike will be the best option.

As far as I am aware, you get a 125cc 4 stroke for reliability, not speed. Chris's idea seems like the best option if you really want a faster top end. If you don't want to go down that route then I have no idea what you could do.

Quote:
How did I know someone would suggest a bigger bike.... The answer is maybe because I am on L plates and didnt want a 10 year old 125 bike with 40 previous owners??


Sounds like you haven't been looking hard enough.
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jimbothe
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PostPosted: 22:09 - 04 Apr 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.fixya.com/motorcycles/t4641112-want_more_horsepower

^^ Don't know if that helps or not.

What I really wanted to put was this

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b342/jgillard/TOWINGROPE.jpg


Laughing

BUT I did put something constructive on as well. Wink
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G
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PostPosted: 22:48 - 04 Apr 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the end, you ARE going to have to make a sacrifice - aesthetics or performance. And yes I DID think about your question; and came to the same conclusion; that a 2 stroke or bigger bike was the best and only not-silly option.

CRM125 is no doubt bigger than your current bike too.
TDR125 also.

Generally the 2 strokes are bigger because they make more power, so have more normal bike design requirements.

Oh and VFR400s look 'silly' with taller riders.
And if you're riding sensibly, you won't break your back.
If you aren't, it's quite easy to do it on a 125 too.
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B3NN10N
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PostPosted: 22:56 - 04 Apr 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

The voice of reason....

Firstly - The VFR was an example merely to illustrate the dangers of inexperienced riders on crotch rockets... I have no desire to purchase one.

Secondly - It may be possible to severly hurt yourself on a 125, I wont disagree with that but it is more likely on a larger bike!

You seem to be picking semantics in a childish way.

Other people.
Thanks for the positive contribution. I think it shall remain standard.
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Paddy.
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PostPosted: 23:27 - 04 Apr 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

B3NN10N wrote:
The voice of reason....

Firstly - The VFR was an example merely to illustrate the dangers of inexperienced riders on crotch rockets... I have no desire to purchase one.

Secondly - It may be possible to severly hurt yourself on a 125, I wont disagree with that but it is more likely on a larger bike!

You seem to be picking semantics in a childish way.

Other people.
Thanks for the positive contribution. I think it shall remain standard.


Keep bike standard, practice on it, do test, get bigger bike.

Im riding around on a 125 at the moment, but have ridden 1000cc sports bikes... and im still alive!

Seriously, 125 4 strokes are slow, its just how they are.
After owning an RS125 then riding around on a CBR125... the difference is huge.

Only advice is to use it to pass, sell on and get a faster bike Thumbs Up
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G
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PostPosted: 23:48 - 04 Apr 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

From my experience, I crashed small bikes a lot more and generally hurt myself more on small bikes on the road (bar one big accident on a big bike - but I was doing a balance point wheelie at 60mph or so and had ignored some previous signs which I shouldn't have that something was going to go wrong.)
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lilredmachine
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PostPosted: 00:20 - 05 Apr 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can have a decent 4 stroke 125, you just have to do your research first and look at the facts in front of you.

My 125 was an MZ SM, it was only a 4 stroke but it was a 4v, DOHC, 6 speed motor with a KTM cooling system that was bang on the 15hp limit for learners in a sweet, light supermoto frame with decent wheels, tires, brakes and suspension. It would maintain a realistic 75mph on the flat, 80+ on the downhill sections and 65 up relatively steep inclines. I weigh 16 stone and am 6"1 and it fit me like a glove. It also managed 110mpg, though obviously not at the same time as being flat out.

You can find relatively recent ones cheap as chips as they are made by MZ and therefore have bolluck all resale value.

Being a slightly more advanced engine than usual they also responded well to tuning, the one in this picture was chucking out 18hp @ the rear wheel. Doesn't sound much but if you consider a CG125 will struggle to make 11...
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B3NN10N
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PostPosted: 21:24 - 07 Apr 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is the bike in question.

Pretty in appearance but a slug in performance.

Probably a good thing as it will get me off my ass to get something bigger!

Thanks guys.
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the95th
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PostPosted: 21:45 - 07 Apr 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

4T 125's and L plates are deeply linked for one reason.

L's arnt allowed on the motorway, so you cant go over 60
4T 125's are the most sensible 125's therefore they do 60.
if you want a quick 125 that don't make you look silly and allow you to speed/break the law take out your 125 engine and replace it with a 250. Youll get the speed, youll get the bike you want, and youll still be breaking the law.

go over 60 on a L plate and you mess up. Which we will ( im a learner to) eventually. your insurance wont cover it if its found you were speeding. So why not go the whole hog?

On a serious note. Why do you need to go over 60 anyway? all the roads have a speed limit for a reason. Its better to remain in those speed limits because Learners dont have the experiance to deal with sticky situations like taking a bend and sliding on oil or shit on the road. Wait untill an instructor has turned around and given you a bit of paper that tells you your an adequate rider before you think you personally think you are.

Just stick at 60. If all your mates have 33bhp rs125's and you want to keep up with them, just hang back 3 corners, and you can overtake them while their either fixing their bikes or fishing them out of hedges.

Or better yet! find a friend who is an experianced rider, and youll realise they only cane it infrequently and only when it is safe to do so, ie. no one else is around!


However to solve your problem, change the sprockets, front one goes up, back one goes down. Youll gain 5mph but will slow down your acceleration by a while.

just take your test.


deal with it.
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B3NN10N
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PostPosted: 23:32 - 07 Apr 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

oh yeh. It was worth a Q as I am a firm believer that slow bikes are very dangerous!

With a slow bike like this - I am being over taken very frequently with lots of people doing so in a chance situation. If the bike had an extra 10mph then this would be reduced as it is perfectly legal to do 70mph on dual carrageways and my commute includes many of these!

I am not searching for the 33bhp 125 like you think. I want to learn safely and become the competant rider but that 10mph extra would mean a great deal.

Im 26 - my bike history includes many field bikes, a dt50 at 16 and a tzr125 (105mph) at 17 and I have never injured myself etc so I would like to think I am cautious and competent but simply looking for road experience at a safe level.

The sprocket idea will lose the vaulable accel so I just wont bother and I will remember to never ever but a 4 stroke 125 again.
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temeluchus
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PostPosted: 02:17 - 08 Apr 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

hate to spoil your fun but the national speed limit is 60.
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MinhDinh
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PostPosted: 02:52 - 08 Apr 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doing a test and passing is valuable learning in itself. It isn't like if you're crap that you will pass. Also riding a bigger bike is not life threatening as you make it out, it is all to do with your own self control. If you want to ride at 70 on a 400, then why not? No one will force you to go more.
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G
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PostPosted: 06:13 - 08 Apr 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

Temeluchus wrote:
hate to spoil your fun but the national speed limit is 60.

Erm, no it's not.
It depends on the vehicle and road; it varies from something like 12mph to 70mph, or not at all limited on the isle of man Smile.
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B3NN10N
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PostPosted: 21:31 - 08 Apr 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

Temeluchus

National speed limit on dual carrageways and motorwats is 70mph unless stated like built up areas.

Single carrageways is 60.

I just got 50/50 on my bike theory! Razz
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Teflon-Mike
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PostPosted: 23:07 - 08 Apr 2011    Post subject: Re: Derbi Senda 125 Baja Sm - 4 Stroke - VERY VERY SLOW - 60 Reply with quote

G wrote:
engine designs - for instance the 20 year old CB125T Smile.
Thumbs Up
Yup, a twenty FIVE year old CB125T infact.... stunning me, after recent top end rebuild, achieving not ONLY 70mph on the Duel Carriageway, where 'special regulations' lift the 'blanket' Nat Speed Lim to 70.... but also doing it TWO UP!
Even MORE incredibly....... without BLOWING UP!
Though was SURE that cam chain was making a bid for freedom!
And that's the 'Reduced Effect' version..... the older, (1977-1981) CB125T's had an extra 25% more power..... I think it was siphoned off the headlamp!

B3NN10N, its a low tech 125 commuter engine in dirt dress, it ent never gonna be quick!

You have a number of options, list is not exhaustive:
Live with it.
Avoid Duel Carriageways.
Get different bike
Pass test & get bigger bike
Dick about with it, fitting loads of 'go fast' and 'race tune' goodies from China, off e-bay, avoiding the big no no 'big bore' kits taking you over legal capacity limit for L plates, and hopefully get perhaps, eleven bhp from your motor, briefly between siezures, to attain an extra 5mph...... with traffic blasting past at 80+ on Duel carriageways it STILL wont make much odds.....
Best bet, slip stream a truck, and enjoy the ecconomy!
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Glenben92
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PostPosted: 05:15 - 09 Apr 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do the test and get something that can handle the roads you need to travel on.

You've said you're 26 so you can do DAS or A2, your choice.

You've said that you've been riding since at least 16 and have owned an illegally derestricted TZR125, whether your claim of 105mph is from personal experience, I can't say.

You've told us that you've just aced a theory test.

Yet you still say you're remaining on a 125 for "practice"... how much practice does somebody need? I was riding abit under a year on a 50cc ped and 6 months on a geared 125 before doing my test and I pissed it at 17 with no real tuition.

alternatively you can buy another illegally derestricted 2t (although even if it is restricted, it should do what you're asking from it at 15bhp), forget about how much you can or can't pose on it and choose safety over style.
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Frost
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PostPosted: 07:19 - 09 Apr 2011    Post subject: Re: Derbi Senda 125 Baja Sm - 4 Stroke - VERY VERY SLOW - 60 Reply with quote

Teflon-Mike wrote:
without BLOWING UP!


Give it time. I used to ride mine at 75-80 down some nice a roads until the engine cried enough and cut out. It tended to start on 1 cylinder and was down on power after that Sad
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Teflon-Mike
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PostPosted: 16:23 - 09 Apr 2011    Post subject: Re: Derbi Senda 125 Baja Sm - 4 Stroke - VERY VERY SLOW - 60 Reply with quote

DaFrostyOne wrote:
Teflon-Mike wrote:
without BLOWING UP!

Give it time. I used to ride mine at 75-80 down some nice a roads until the engine cried enough and cut out. It tended to start on 1 cylinder and was down on power after that Sad


Nooooooo! Don't even THINK that, it can sense the negative energy! I can hear the cylinder wall contracting around the pistons in anxiety as you type!

Positive thoughts, POSITIVE!

Bumble Bee principle here... don't tell it that by the laws of aerodynamics it cant actually 'fly' or it's illusions shattered it will fall out of the sky!

Now Sush! I want this little bike to hear positive encouragement and praise for its efforts, and promises of lots of fresh oil, and tappet tickles!
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