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Ticking over when switched off?? HELP

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bass2k8
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PostPosted: 11:44 - 18 Apr 2011    Post subject: Ticking over when switched off?? HELP Reply with quote

Right, so you should probably know that I've got a Peugeot Speedfight 2 100 Prost.

Recently I've noticed that once I've gone for a ride and then go to park up, I turn the ignition off and my scooter stays ticking over for a couple of seconds and then goes off.

I don't know why its doing this, but the other week I dropped my scooter on its side and it had some petrol leaked on the floor. I could not find where it came from. So that could be the cause of the problem?

Could you please advise what I should do for checks etc, Thanks.
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The Artist
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PostPosted: 11:49 - 18 Apr 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

By "stays ticking over" do you mean the engine continues to run or sits there ticking?
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bass2k8
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PostPosted: 11:50 - 18 Apr 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I don't really know the difference between the two lol... but it sounds the same as if I have just turned it on and left it on idle.
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The Artist
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PostPosted: 11:52 - 18 Apr 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't really work out what is happening without a proper description or a video or something.

Most bikes will go tick tick tick after a ride because they are hot and that is the sound of the metal contracting.

If the engine continues to run for a few seconds then cuts out, either your bike has a really weird way of cutting the ignition or you haven't told the full story.

A video would be best.
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bass2k8
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PostPosted: 11:55 - 18 Apr 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will try and film a video later on in the day, I've got to pop out now so I will keep you posted. Thanks.
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 12:05 - 18 Apr 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

Running on like that used to be fairly common with old engines. Build up of carbon in the engine which got nice and hot and acted as a glow plug igniting the fuel / air even when the ignition wasn't firing. Does still require fuel and air, but a basic carb doesn't care whether the ignition is on or not.

However pretty rare these days.

First thing is check the spark plug and see how dirty that is.

All the best

Keith
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weasley
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PostPosted: 13:26 - 18 Apr 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

What Kickstart said.

It is also something you want to sort out ASAP - uncontrolled combustion like this can be very damaging to the plug, pistons, bore etc so you really don't want it happening. It might just be a fouled plug, but it could also be deposits on the piston or cylinder head needing a decoke.
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The Artist
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PostPosted: 13:31 - 18 Apr 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it is what kickstart said, it could be running lean meaning it gets so hot the plug ignites the fuel just from being hot.
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 13:52 - 18 Apr 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

Would expect it to do engine damage before it got that lean and hot, or just melt the plug.

I would be more inclined to suspect it is seriously rich, possibly from the choke mechanism jamming on when it was dropped. Rich mix will mean a build up or carbon.

Checking the plug is the easiest way to have some idea. Might well need a decoke though.

All the best

Keith
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bass2k8
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PostPosted: 19:23 - 18 Apr 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kickstart wrote:
Hi

Running on like that used to be fairly common with old engines. Build up of carbon in the engine which got nice and hot and acted as a glow plug igniting the fuel / air even when the ignition wasn't firing. Does still require fuel and air, but a basic carb doesn't care whether the ignition is on or not.

However pretty rare these days.

First thing is check the spark plug and see how dirty that is.

All the best

Keith


As I came home today and pulled up the first thing I went to do was get my phone out and film what happens... and as I was filming it turned off perfectly fine? Maybe because it took like 10 seconds to get my phone out it burnt the extra fuel in the carb?

I will try and go out for a ride now, and then turn it off straight away and see if the problem occurs.

I haven't checked the spark plug, but will do that first thing tomorrow morning. What should I look out for?

Oh yeah mines a 2000 model Speedfight so its not really that old, its a Dellorto carb.

weasley wrote:
What Kickstart said.

It is also something you want to sort out ASAP - uncontrolled combustion like this can be very damaging to the plug, pistons, bore etc so you really don't want it happening. It might just be a fouled plug, but it could also be deposits on the piston or cylinder head needing a decoke.

Yeah I was thinking the same thing, this could really do some damage to my engine couldn't it? What is a dechoke? Thanks.

The Artist wrote:
If it is what kickstart said, it could be running lean meaning it gets so hot the plug ignites the fuel just from being hot.

How would I check to see whether its running lean or not? I mean lately I been getting some good MPG than I previous did a couple of weeks ago so I dont think it is.

Thanks everyone.
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The Artist
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PostPosted: 19:27 - 18 Apr 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.v6z24.com/mods/howto/images/plugs/plugs19.jpg
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bass2k8
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PostPosted: 19:54 - 18 Apr 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Artist wrote:

Thanks for the Image.

Just got back from the ride, went to film again and it turned off perfectly fine? Hmm. So I supose if I leave it idle for a couple of seconds once I've reached my location it should be perfectly fine?
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heehaw
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PostPosted: 20:04 - 18 Apr 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most likely to be red hot carbon igniting the fuel, it's called dieseling.

Alternatively its the contacts on your ignition switch or relay sticking, WD:40 or contact spray.
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SpannerMonkey
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PostPosted: 20:07 - 18 Apr 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not having much luck with the speedfight are ya lad... =/
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bass2k8
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PostPosted: 20:36 - 18 Apr 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

niallB wrote:
Most likely to be red hot carbon igniting the fuel, it's called dieseling.

Alternatively its the contacts on your ignition switch or relay sticking, WD:40 or contact spray.

Hmm to think of it I was spraying my exhaust and other rusted parts of my bike with WD40... so maybe some of it went into the exhaust? Is that a bad thing or does it just burn out and it will be fine?

spannermonkey91 wrote:
Not having much luck with the speedfight are ya lad... =/

Nah I ain't mate :/ What a start to motorcycling! You'd think it would have put me off, but I just love the feeling of riding! Smile
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SpannerMonkey
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PostPosted: 21:08 - 18 Apr 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

bass2k8 wrote:
niallB wrote:
Most likely to be red hot carbon igniting the fuel, it's called dieseling.

Alternatively its the contacts on your ignition switch or relay sticking, WD:40 or contact spray.

Hmm to think of it I was spraying my exhaust and other rusted parts of my bike with WD40... so maybe some of it went into the exhaust? Is that a bad thing or does it just burn out and it will be fine?

spannermonkey91 wrote:
Not having much luck with the speedfight are ya lad... =/

Nah I ain't mate :/ What a start to motorcycling! You'd think it would have put me off, but I just love the feeling of riding! Smile
I'm on my 21st bike... And I'm 19 ;D I spend more time with them in bits than I do on them. And I've only ever paid over 400 quid for a bike ONCE.
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Walloper
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PostPosted: 21:45 - 18 Apr 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

2000 year scooter may possibly need a De-coke.
It is defo an engine heat related problem.

The oil control ring of the piston and or the cylinder bore wear which allows too much oil to remain on the bore. This gets 'partially' burned-off during combustion but leaves heavy deposits.
As this continues it can build up a thick layer.
It can even be thick enough to increase compression ratio which will add to the problem of 'running-on'.

If it's a two-stroke too much oil in the mix can do the same thing.

As said, check the plug first. It can indicate if the cylinder is healthy or not.

There is a way to 'sort-of' de-coke without disassembly.
It needs a bottle of Redex and a small tube to feed the Redex into the venturi via a vacuum port.
It will maybe remove some of the soot and s4it but ultimately it may require stripping.
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bass2k8
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PostPosted: 21:50 - 18 Apr 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

spannermonkey91 wrote:
I'm on my 21st bike... And I'm 19 ;D I spend more time with them in bits than I do on them. And I've only ever paid over 400 quid for a bike ONCE.

Wow your 21st bike? Razz... man thats a lot lol. Do you just buy cheap bikes and repair them for a hobby? Because u sound well good at it! haha, where did u learn to do this? Razz
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SpannerMonkey
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PostPosted: 21:55 - 18 Apr 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

bass2k8 wrote:
spannermonkey91 wrote:
I'm on my 21st bike... And I'm 19 ;D I spend more time with them in bits than I do on them. And I've only ever paid over 400 quid for a bike ONCE.

Wow your 21st bike? Razz... man thats a lot lol. Do you just buy cheap bikes and repair them for a hobby? Because u sound well good at it! haha, where did u learn to do this? Razz

Actually, the reason I get through so many bike is cause I'm good at buying them cheap and selling them on at roughly the same price in worse condition. See every cheap bike I buy seems to have inherent problems that make themselves apparent after about 2 weeks of ownership, I try to fix them... lose interest, and flog them
Only 3 bikes ever kept my attention, The CZ... The Honda Camino...and the Honda PC50
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bass2k8
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PostPosted: 21:59 - 18 Apr 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

spannermonkey91 wrote:
Actually, the reason I get through so many bike is cause I'm good at buying them cheap and selling them on at roughly the same price in worse condition. See every cheap bike I buy seems to have inherent problems that make themselves apparent after about 2 weeks of ownership, I try to fix them... lose interest, and flog them
Only 3 bikes ever kept my attention, The CZ... The Honda Camino...and the Honda PC50

Oh right, so I see that your buying bikes, taking them apart and learning how to strip them, then you attempt to put back together and it doesn't work or you've done something wrong and you learn from your mistakes? Ahh cool, I would love to strip my ped but I dont wanna brake it :O
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bass2k8
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PostPosted: 22:04 - 18 Apr 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

Walloper wrote:
2000 year scooter may possibly need a De-coke.
It is defo an engine heat related problem.

The oil control ring of the piston and or the cylinder bore wear which allows too much oil to remain on the bore. This gets 'partially' burned-off during combustion but leaves heavy deposits.
As this continues it can build up a thick layer.
It can even be thick enough to increase compression ratio which will add to the problem of 'running-on'.

If it's a two-stroke too much oil in the mix can do the same thing.

As said, check the plug first. It can indicate if the cylinder is healthy or not.

There is a way to 'sort-of' de-coke without disassembly.
It needs a bottle of Redex and a small tube to feed the Redex into the venturi via a vacuum port.
It will maybe remove some of the soot and s4it but ultimately it may require stripping.

Yeah the bike is a two stroke. I will check the plug tomorrow morning, I will try and take a photo for you guys to see.

Hmm isn't it bad to put a liquid in the vacuum? Won't it mess it up? I don't know haha.
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SpannerMonkey
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PostPosted: 22:09 - 18 Apr 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

bass2k8 wrote:
spannermonkey91 wrote:
Actually, the reason I get through so many bike is cause I'm good at buying them cheap and selling them on at roughly the same price in worse condition. See every cheap bike I buy seems to have inherent problems that make themselves apparent after about 2 weeks of ownership, I try to fix them... lose interest, and flog them
Only 3 bikes ever kept my attention, The CZ... The Honda Camino...and the Honda PC50

Oh right, so I see that your buying bikes, taking them apart and learning how to strip them, then you attempt to put back together and it doesn't work or you've done something wrong and you learn from your mistakes? Ahh cool, I would love to strip my ped but I dont wanna brake it :O
I always say that... "I dont want to break it" Then I end up doing it anyway for some fucked up reason
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bass2k8
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PostPosted: 22:12 - 18 Apr 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

spannermonkey91 wrote:
I always say that... "I dont want to break it" Then I end up doing it anyway for some fucked up reason

Yeah that always seems to happen :/
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lukamon
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PostPosted: 01:12 - 19 Apr 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

When oil burns in your engine (the 2 stroke oil you put in te tank) it leave a kind of black grime, soot basically.over time this can build up inside your engine.

Now imagine this soot has built up into a lump of black crap in the engine. When petrol is burnt, it burns at 600deg c (i think) and this.Will make your.little lump of black crap glow.red hot.

Obviously when your pour petrol onto anything red hot, its gonna catch fire. Since the carb in your bike is mechanical, not.electrical, it doesnt stop working when you turn the key but Will keep putting fuel into the.engine if it is turning. The spark having been turned off by the key, petrol is now being ignited by your little lump of red - hot black crap. Since the engine Will be turning slower, it won't burn enough petrol to keep the carbon red hot.and Will eventually cool down and stop burning petrol and the engine Will stop.

/breath
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 09:18 - 19 Apr 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

bass2k8 wrote:

Yeah the bike is a two stroke. I will check the plug tomorrow morning, I will try and take a photo for you guys to see.

Hmm isn't it bad to put a liquid in the vacuum? Won't it mess it up? I don't know haha.


It is a bad idea in any large quantity, but you only use a tiny bit at a time.

You bike has a 50cc engine. Probably about a 10:1 compression ratio so the combustion chamber volume is about 5cc (ie the total volume when the piston is at the very top). If you managed to pour in over 5cc of liquid in one cycle of the piston then as liquids do not compress the piston couldn't go all the way up. Trouble is that at any real engine speed the piston in this situation is stopped quite violently and can quite easily bend the connecting rod. Tends to happen if you drive through a deep puddle so the engine sucks in water through the airbox.

All the best

Keith
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