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HOW2: change Oil & CLean strainer (Small Honda's +)

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SnowTigeress
Brolly Dolly



Joined: 23 May 2010
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PostPosted: 16:07 - 11 May 2011    Post subject: HOW2: change Oil & CLean strainer (Small Honda's +) Reply with quote

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w269/teflons-torque/Little%20Dreams/LD07%20Eng%20Build/100_0476.jpg

Tef reckons the first thing you should do when you get a bike, is the basic servicing, which means changing the oil right? So, with my Pup close to being ready to run, finally got round to it! The Pup is my 1986 Honda CB125TD-C 'Super Dream', but Tef assures me that the bottom end of the engine, and hence this job is the same for almost all the 'small' Honda twins, that use the 'Benley' engine, and he thinks its the same, or near enough, on the CG125, CB125S and RS, XR125, XL125, CB100N, and possibly a few others! and Stink reckoned it looked pretty much the same as the Kawasaki GPz305, so could offer guide for some of them too.

Main thing is, these bikes all have 'internal' oil strainers, you have to take the engine cover off to clean, rather than a cartridge outside the engine you can unscrew and change. According to Tef, this makes it a scary job for far too many people, who dont like messing with the insides of the engines, so they may change the oil, but dont clean the strainer.. which means it cloggs up, and the engine can sieze!

BUT, its actually really quite easy, and Tef, mean man that he is, made me do it ALL just following the instructions in the Haynes manual, while he took 'photo's and made bad jokes!

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w269/teflons-torque/Little%20Dreams/LD07%20Eng%20Build/100_0459.jpg
Haynes Confuser wrote:
Two Monthly, or every 1250 miles (2000Km) - Change the engine/transmission oil
Eight Monthly, or every 5000 miles (8000Km) - Clean the Oil Filter Screen

Of course, bludy book has you jumping between sections for this doesn't it... but battling through!
Haynes Confuser wrote:
Warm the engine to normal operating temperature, by taking the machine for a short ride. This will thin the oil, allowing it to drain more quickly. Place Machine on its centre stand & place container of at least 2 litres beneath the drain plug, which is sat in the crabk case left-hand side

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w269/teflons-torque/Little%20Dreams/LD07%20Eng%20Build/100_0447.jpg
I couldn't take the bike for a short ride, as it's not MOT's yet, so I let it idle for a little while on the center stand. Tef, piped in and suggested that I put it in gear and let it turn the back wheel though, to get the gearbox turning and churn all the old oil up.
An empty Ice Cream tub, was found to catch the oil. It proved a bit small, and some spilled, but Tef ran over the washing up bowl!
And I found the drain plug and put a 17mm socket on it.
Haynes Confuser wrote:
Remove the filler plug / dipstick; then slacken & remove the drain plug. Allow the oil to drain fully; turning the engine over a few times only on the kickstarter or starter motor to help eject most residual oil.

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w269/teflons-torque/Little%20Dreams/LD07%20Eng%20Build/100_0450.jpg
Haynes Confuser wrote:
Renew the drain plug sealing washer,if damaged & refit the drain plug.....

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w269/teflons-torque/Little%20Dreams/LD07%20Eng%20Build/100_0452.jpg
Yeah! That will be the bolt that fell in the oil, wont it!
"Ouch! - That's Hot"
"Well," Said Tef, helpfully, "You did read the instructions and have just warmed the engine!"
"Didn't Expect the OIL to be hot, though!"
Tef shook his head! Laughing! Bastard! "Yup. The oil change ritual, sump plug fishing... bit like trout tickling, only slimier!"
"Tef... your NOT FUNNY. Its Oh-Fishull... your daughter says so!"
(Note to all: PLEASE stop giving him 'Funny' Khama. Its only encouraging him!)
Haynes Confuser wrote:
....tightening it to a torque setting of 3.0-5.0Kgf. Pour the specified amount of good quality SAE10w/40 engine oil into the crank cas and refit the dipstick.Start the engine.....
HANG ONE..... yeah... thats if your JUST doing an oil change... we're doing this strainer thing, so back up.... TIGHTEN SUMP PLUG!
Tef, shouting at me, so I dont loose it, or end up forgetting and pouring oil in one side for it to all run out the other! OK! So I'm BLONDE! Now where's this bit about the strainer!
Haynes Confuser wrote:
Drain the engine oil as described under two monthly/1250 mile service heading
Right, I've just done that!
Haynes Confuser wrote:
Disconnect the Clutch cable from its operating arm

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w269/teflons-torque/Little%20Dreams/LD07%20Eng%20Build/100_0466.jpg
Haynes Confuser wrote:
slacken & remove the retyaining screws & withdraw the crank case right hand cover

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w269/teflons-torque/Little%20Dreams/LD07%20Eng%20Build/100_0469.jpg
Oooh! Mechanics! Cogs!
Actually, while we're in here, Tef's told me I have to replace the clutch plates and springs. But I'll skip over that bit, for now, and write that up as a seperate "How2" later. That's not too scary either!
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w269/teflons-torque/Little%20Dreams/LD07%20Eng%20Build/100_0471.jpg
Right, OIL STRAINER. That's it there, that I'm pointing at with a cable tie, inside that black rubber bit on the bottom of the round, goldie coloured thing, Tef says is the oil pump. What's Mr Haynes say to do Next?
Haynes Confuser wrote:
Rotate the Crankshaft to alighn three holes in the oil pump outer cover. The three pump retaining screws will now be visible. Remove the screws & lift the complete oil pump unit away. If Screws are very tight an impact driver may be used as long as care is taken.......

"TEF! Its telling me I have to take the whole OIL PUMP out! You said this wasn't SCAREY!"
Tef finally picked up the manual....."Your right. It does."
"So I have to take the pump off then?"
"Err... No. NOT if you are careful."
Haynes Confuser wrote:
Note there is insufficient clerance around the filter screen to allow its removal & refitting with the pump in situ

"So the Haynes is lying then?"
"Err... well... yeah... it DOES that from time to time. Not so much 'lying' as telling you how to do it the 'garanteed' way."
"So what do I have to do, then?"
"Fiddle it!" Says Tef! "The screen is only held in by that rubber boot, and there's JUST enough gap under the oil pump housing to lift off the edge of teh rubber, and slide the filter out, without having to completely remove the pump.... IF you are careful"
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w269/teflons-torque/Little%20Dreams/LD07%20Eng%20Build/100_0473.jpg
So that's what I did. Carefully lifting the rubber boot off the end of the housing.
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w269/teflons-torque/Little%20Dreams/LD07%20Eng%20Build/100_0476.jpg
CAREFULLY sliding the strainer out from inside.
Haynes Confuser wrote:
Clean the filter screen carefully in petrol to remove any residual oil or debris. A soft bristle brush such as an old tooth brush is ideal for cleaning the filter screen. If the screen is found to be damaged in any way it must be renewed immedietly.

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w269/teflons-torque/Little%20Dreams/LD07%20Eng%20Build/100_0479.jpg
A tooth brush, 'any debris'? This thing had quarter of an inch of horrible gloopy SH!T all over it! I used a bit of old plastic to crape the worst off so I could even SEE the mesh screen they were talking about.
I asked Tef, if it was supposed to look like that.
"No, but most do." He offered, helpfuly!
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w269/teflons-torque/Little%20Dreams/LD07%20Eng%20Build/100_0481.jpg
Mr Haynes must have written this book before David Cameron came to power! I am NOT wasting expensive petrol cleaning this thing! Washing up liquid and water is just as effective and a lot cheaper!
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w269/teflons-torque/Little%20Dreams/LD07%20Eng%20Build/104_0271.jpg
Haynes Confuser wrote:
Refit the screen & retainer to the oil pump....{loads of stuff about fitting the oil pump back on}.... Refit the crank case right hand cover using a new cover gasket, check that drain plug has been refitted & tightened, then refill with the correct amount of oil as described under two monthly / 1250 mile service

Well that makes light of it!
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w269/teflons-torque/Little%20Dreams/LD07%20Eng%20Build/100_0485.jpg
Need to get all the OLD gasket stuff off first! Bit or picking, bit of scraping...
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w269/teflons-torque/Little%20Dreams/LD07%20Eng%20Build/100_0489.jpg
Gets there in the end. Have to do both the face on teh crank cases and the mating face on the cover though.
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w269/teflons-torque/Little%20Dreams/LD07%20Eng%20Build/100_0486.jpg
Then Tef told me to poke out any muck from under the strainer, and wipe out the cases to get rid of any gasket debris I had dropped in there.
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w269/teflons-torque/Little%20Dreams/LD07%20Eng%20Build/100_0494.jpg
THEN I could carefully wiggle the strainer back onto the oil pump and secure in its rubber retainer.
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w269/teflons-torque/071_A_010_Gasket/imag2059.jpg
But I didn't have a new cover gasket. I had searched e-bay and everywhere else, but no one has individual gaskets, only full gasket sets for about 20. So Tef told me I could make one from gasket paper from the car spares place round the corner. Only they didn't have any. So he said I could use an old Cerial packet instead. I was dubiouse, but, aparently its an old trick and well respected. Given that it's own post, HOW2: Make a Cornflake Paket Gasket!
That done, cover could be fitted up, the clutch cable re-attached, tachometer re-attached, and the engine filled with oil.
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w269/teflons-torque/Little%20Dreams/LD07%20Eng%20Build/imag2060-1.jpg
Start the engine, let it warm, check the oil level and any leaks
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w269/teflons-torque/Little%20Dreams/LD07%20Eng%20Build/imag2063.jpg
Job done!
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nowhere.elysium
The Pork Lord



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PostPosted: 16:56 - 11 May 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

These HowTo's that you're doing really are cracking threads. Thumbs Up
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Moo.
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PostPosted: 21:21 - 11 May 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

Awesome How2 Very Happy This could also be used on how to get to the oil pump/clutch on a 250 superdream, looks exactly the same internals, except it doesnt have a strainer, has a full filter and just has the oil pump there Laughing But good job Thumbs Up Mr. Green
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SnowTigeress
Brolly Dolly



Joined: 23 May 2010
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PostPosted: 21:52 - 11 May 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

rob yarrr wrote:
coolio

just noticed that my cg as the same tyres as your cb,what ya make of them ?


i haven't ridden him yet Sad

you have the mich m45 too?
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Klause
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PostPosted: 09:32 - 16 May 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

Woo looked like that mesh filter had never been cleaned in its life!
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neil.
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PostPosted: 11:26 - 16 May 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is great.

I wanted to also add/chime in with my experiences on the YBR125 which has a similar arrangement.

I owned my particular example for 3 and 1/4 years, having bought it with 500 miles on the clock. It's now approaching 40'000 miles. Until a thousand or so miles ago I had never looked at the oil strainer, or even taken off any covers on the engine, bar the tappet covers to check and adjust valve clearances.

I had been changing the oil every 2'000 miles, and since I have been doing 300 miles a week all year round, it gets regular changes.

Taking the clutch cover off on the YBR is a bit more involved because you need to remove a bunch of stuff that's in the way first - namely the kickstart lever (which was bastard level light!), starter motor, and rider foot rests.

Once inside, the arrangement is similar. In my case the strainer was in immaculate condition, undamaged with only 2 or 3 very small light specs of debris on it, like grains of sand in size. Inside the casing there was a very, very small amount of sludge in the very bottom recesses. I was very pleasantly surprised, bearing in mind that I had never looked at this in 39'000ish miles, and must conclude that regular oil changes do indeed make a significantly positive difference in preserving the condition of an engine.
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neil.
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PostPosted: 11:29 - 16 May 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

rob yarrr wrote:
just noticed the grease nipple on the swingarm pivot

god the cg is a backwards heap


I wish the YBR had one of those! You've gotta take the back end apart and strip the whole lot down to grease it!
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sloopeh
L Plate Warrior



Joined: 11 Jul 2011
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PostPosted: 11:40 - 01 Oct 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

this post was very helpful thank you. the haynes manual says you have to remove the oil pump to get to the strainer and i have been struggling for hours with it.

found your post/pictures and thought..... hmm why dont i just bend tha bit of rubber and pull it out!!

thanks a lot for taking the time to do these posts. i have been working on my tde for a while now and mostly with information from you and mike and this forums so about time i said thanks a lot...!! Smile

by the way my engine was very clean inside an no gunk but the strainer was horrid so well worth checking if you havent done so.
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dave123321
Two Stroke Sniffer



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PostPosted: 13:36 - 01 Oct 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

why are you putting castrol gtx in the cb125?

doesn't that oil have friction modifiers and additives for cars.....

it will kill your wet clutch.

also the cg has a oil strainer which comes out with the sump plug so its not the same, correct me if im worng, but the cb125 has a cam chain whereas most benley engines have pushrods.
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Teflon-Mike
tl;dr



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PostPosted: 23:25 - 01 Oct 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

dave123321 wrote:
why are you putting castrol gtx in the cb125?
Becouse it was on offer in ASDA.
dave123321 wrote:
doesn't that oil have friction modifiers and additives for cars.....

I have no idea, & rarely believe the advertising blurb when I bother reading it.
dave123321 wrote:
it will kill your wet clutch.
It hasn't. And why would it? You think that small amounts of polymer teflon in the oil will reduce the friction on the clutch plates SO MUCH that it wont grip sufficiently to transmit a mere 12bhp? Might be a bit more critical on a big-bike, with worn out plates that are close to slipping anyway; but on a 125, with a brand new clutch?
Any addatives and modifiers in the oil, intended for car engines where they aren't lubricating the gear-box as well, are more likely to harm phusphur bronze bushes, than anything; BUT, they have tended to be a bit careful of such addatives since many car engines, like the Austin Mini, run a gearbox in sump.... it's basic engine oil, in a pretty basic engine; its not some exotic elixir for an exotic engine stiffed with NASA developed materials!
dave123321 wrote:
also the cg has a oil strainer which comes out with the sump plug
ONE of them does yes....
Ever opened up a CG engine? Care to enlighten us as to where the other is?
dave123321 wrote:
so its not the same,
No, its not, at least on some models. But some, genuine CG's and or copy motors 'may' use the same oil pump with integral screen filter; as its the same pump mechanism in a slightly different (snorkled) housing.
That asside; idea of getting in to the primary cover and cleaningh the strainer; whether its the snorkle ended one as CB/Benley engine, or the 'centrifugal one' as most CG's, its just as worth of attension whatever shape it is; and same 'principles' taking the primary drive cover off, finding and cleaning the thing.
dave123321 wrote:
correct me if im worng,

You are... I am.....
dave123321 wrote:
but the cb125 has a cam chain whereas most benley engines have pushrods.

They don't.
Whole FAMILY of bikes based around the same bottom end, they are ALL overhead cam twins, and none of them have push-rods.
Off the top of my head, the only two push rod engine Honda's I can think of are the CG125, which was a retrograde development of the OHC CB125S engine, pandering to third world standards of user maintenence; and the CX500.
CB125 and CB200 share 'benley' bottom ends; same as CM and CA series bikes. Benley engines have single carbs and 360 degree crank-shafts. CB engines have 180 crankshafts and twin carbs.
Early engines have a points in head arrangement, with a different head and rocker casting; later bikes have 'pan' rocker covers and points or CDI in generator housing. Camshafts are different depending on model variant, but other wise there's a lot of interchangeability between engines in the family. and ALL are OHC, not OHV.
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Rogerborg
nimbA



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PostPosted: 07:47 - 02 Oct 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

Teflon-Mike wrote:
dave123321 wrote:
also the cg has a oil strainer which comes out with the sump plug
ONE of them does yes....
Ever opened up a CG engine? Care to enlighten us as to where the other is?


Left hand side, at the bottom, under a 23 or 24mm nut.

http://co11ins.tripod.com//sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/img_0006_1.jpg
http://co11ins.tripod.com//sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/img_0007_1.jpg

The GPz305 does have a paper cartridge filter. However, there's also a mesh filter on the oil pickup tube behind the (teeny) oil pump that's more or less in the same place as the one shown in Snowie's fashion show above. Not cleaning it is cited as a primary cause of oil starvation in these engines.
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kramdra
World Chat Champion



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PostPosted: 08:54 - 02 Oct 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice guide but some important things to add:


Clean around the engine before you take the cover off.

Be carefull not to scrape gasket into the engine. you can see big lumps of it in your pictures :O


*** on the right side of the casing, the gasket covers the high pressure oilway. What happens when a bit of gasket in there, meets the tiny hole for the oilway further in? Smile ***



CG125 and a few others have a centrifugal filter. Similar place. On my bike, it seems the Centri is far more effective, and having it prevents the strainer from doing anything really.

So on a CG, cleaning the stainer is a bit pointless (but still do it!) as all the crap is in the centri. And I think when the centri gets full, the big lumps of crap will fall off and get sucked through the oil pump.


note that cars/bikes with external filters, they will still have a strainer!
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pike
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PostPosted: 11:26 - 03 May 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Many thanks for this article. I've just bought a CB250 (Two Fifty) (2002) and will need to follow this procedure.

Cheers !
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pike
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PostPosted: 07:35 - 29 May 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm, it's taken me this long to get round to checking the filter, here's the result, I assume that crud build up is mainly from the clutch.


http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s94/weird_andy/oilscreen400x300_zpsf1866c4e.jpg
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bikenut
World Chat Champion



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PostPosted: 10:30 - 05 Jul 2013    Post subject: cb125 twin Reply with quote

:D well done girl!! your bike so you fix it!!

good to see girls doing this stuff............my lad wont get his hands dirty.........seen me comin home covered from head to foot.... etc. etc. too often i suppose........

cerial gasket......if your in the desert and thats all you got then ok.......

but have used that method for years with no problem........i tend to glue the gasket to the cover, and grease, so survives a removal well..........longer lasting.

dont forget the oil gallery as shown in the pics........

use banana box cardboard these days ( cheap scate that i am ) as cant afford the flexoid.........the sheet at the bottom of the box....the one with loads of holes in......

how much crap was there trapped in the clutch acting as centrifugal crap trap ?

( cb125s etc. has proper centrigugal oil filter on end of crank )

and how does oil get to the crank as no mention of top hat.....

tried zooming in to pic so not certain its there..........

do you replace your own tyres and stuff also.......

remember cmsnl as well as a haynes book of lies........for refference....

well done girl!!

so whats stoppin you boys??????????????

you young dudes you ( and dudettes ). :karma:
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bikenut
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PostPosted: 10:33 - 05 Jul 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

snow tigress.......use a cushion as housemaides knee is painfull, from experience.......
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Acemastr
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PostPosted: 10:45 - 05 Jul 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm fairly sure there's a market for naked motorbike mechanics, don't forget me when you're rich!
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Stowelly
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PostPosted: 10:54 - 05 Jul 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ft1IkFZkJts
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